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Logitech’s latest mechanical keyboards are affordable and understated

 2 years ago
source link: https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/28/22906058/logitech-g413-se-tkl-wired-mechanical-keyboards
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Logitech’s latest mechanical keyboards are affordable and understated

Starting at $69.99 for a compact model

By Jon Porter@JonPorty Jan 28, 2022, 6:00am EST

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High_Resolution_PNG_G413_TKL_FOB_US.0.jpg

Logitech’s G413 TKL. Image: Logitech

Logitech has announced a pair of new wired mechanical keyboards, G413 SE and G413 TKL. The first is a fullsize keyboard costing $79.99, and the second is a tenkeyless model, which omits the numpad for a more compact footprint and costs $69.99.

The G413 SE and G413 TKL are interesting for a couple of reasons. First is that unlike many of Logitech’s other keyboards, these designs are relatively understated. The cases are a simple black-brushed aluminum-magnesium alloy with a plain Logitech G logo on the top right. Meanwhile, the keycaps use a simple black design and are made of durable PBT plastic with transparent lettering that lets the keyboard’s white backlighting shine through.

g413_se_gallery_1_new.jpg

There’s all a fullsize version, the G413 SE. Image: Logitech

Unlike the original G413, they also use a fairly standard set of Cherry MX-style switches rather than Logitech’s in-house Romer-G switches. The G413 SE and G413 TKL’s switches aren’t actually manufactured by Cherry — Logitech spokesperson Derek Perez tells me they’re Longhua switches — but the important thing here is that they’ll be compatible with replacement keycaps in case you want to customize the keyboard down the road. The switches are described as “tactile,” meaning they should feel similar to Cherry’s MX Brown switch.

And, to reiterate, their prices start at $69.99, which when it comes to mechanical keyboards produced by big name manufacturers is relatively affordable. Logitech says both will go on sale next month.

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There are 33 comments.

Nice to have that link to explain what Longhua switches are; looks like they’re an old brand of Kailh’s (the original parent company’s name, to be precise). No idea what tooling these will be using, so assume it’s the older and not as good ones.

Also, PBT on these at this price level is nice.

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 6:54 AM

Very similar to the Logitech G512/513 Carbon

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 7:32 AM

The G413 (with Romer-G switches and red backlight) came first, then the G512 with the RGB lights and a choice of a few switches. This is just an updated version of the former.

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 7:54 AM

The larger one looks like the exact same as the K845 MX Brown version but with a darker background color and a G instead of logi in the top right. Basically a reskin of the same keyboard. The only other difference I see is "SHIFT" spelled out on the keycap instead of an up arrow.

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 8:19 AM

I’ve been using a K845 for almost a year now as my daily driver for work and it’s a solid keyboard.

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 8:53 AM

the original G413 had big issues with keycaps: they’re proprietary and the retaining pins broke really easily and got stuck in the switch, making replacing them (not that replacements were available) near to impossible.

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 9:30 AM

Lack of hotswap is a dealbreaker.

At that price point not really

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 1:50 PM

Can someone explain to me this fuzz about mechanical keyboards?
I always preferred the "speedy" and flat laptop keyboards like on a Macbook.

Mechanical keys are easier to find and type by touch for me. They’re tall and separated by a deep and large rift, while the large plates on my Macbook are harder to differentiate.

The mechanical switches also reliably trigger at 1/2 of the deeper key travel, so I can type with less effort and without miss. Regular membrane keyboards require hitting the key against the membrane, which sometimes flunks on some keyboards I’ve used.

The MacBook Air 2020’s keyboard is the best I’ve seen on a laptop, though. It’s not bad, but I use my mechanical whenever I can.

omo

It’s mostly preference, but mechanical boards do offer more customizability and there is a very wide range of switches with different actions. MX reds are pretty fun!

Mechanical keyboards invoke the tactile-ness of an old-school industrial metallic device hewn from chunks of metal, with steel springs, whirring gears, oil smell, lots of noise and a direct connection to the physical core of your device. If you’ve driven a stickshift on a car built before 1986, or any Harley then it’s a similar experience — in short, fun, entertaining, engaging, but not particularly necessary to get the job done in 2022.

Personally, I enjoy them, but I do like the new stuff too.

Typically people like them because they are loud enough to wake your up neighbor across the street :wink:

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 1:26 PM

Mechanical switches can provide what ever kind of speed, feel, sound, and overall character you want.

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 1:47 PM

You have tons of options of switches and when you find one that you like it will ruin laptop or cheap keyboards for you forever.

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 1:51 PM

I don’t mind a good laptop keyboard, though I’m not sure I’d put Macbook keyboards in that category. I have a ThinkPad P50 that has a decent keyboard, but probably the best laptop keyboard I’ve ever typed on is on my ThinkPad 600X – they don’t make laptop keyboards like that anymore.

But I wouldn’t want that feel for a desktop. It’s still a compromise to save space and cost. Rubber dome/membrane keyboards are just cheaper to make, and allow for much shorter travel, which is good for laptops but not necessary for a desktop. Not everybody likes the longer travel of a traditional desktop keyboard, but there is a point where the key travel can become so short that it’s just like typing directly on a piece of plywood. The recent Apple keyboards I’ve used have all been like that. (By recent, I mean from like, 2013 on up.)

But mechanical keyboards can have many different designs, and there are short travel mechanical keyboards too. There is no one style of mechanical keyboard – in fact it’s probably more accurate to just say "non-rubber dome" or "non-membrane" keyboard, because people just call anything that doesn’t have rubber domes and/or membranes "mechanical" these days. You could argue that any keyboard using any kind of individual, per-key switch is mechanical, vs. the membrane over circuit board design where the keyboard is really all one unit.

For example, I currently use a Steelseries Apex Pro, which is a linear (non-clicky and non-tacile)) keyboard that uses optical switches. What makes the keystroke happen is actually an optical sensor that can measure the key position at any point – meaning you can actually adjust the actuation point. But is this really "mechanical"? Steelseries and most other users call it that, but there’s no real "mechanism" involved, it’s just a bunch of sensors and firmware. So you don’t really know immediately what people are talking about if they just mention mechanical keyboards; you only know that they mean "a keyboard that is not rubber dome". That means there are way more different options with different key feels than there are for rubber dome/membrane keyboards, pretty much all of which have that same mushy, pseudo-tactile feel that cheap, commoditized computers of the 90’s made common (including Apple’s).

Pretty much all good PC keyboards these days are what you’d call "mechanical", whether they really are or not. Walk into Best Buy or something and it’s actually hard to find a rubber dome keyboard on display, although if you look at the cheapest options, those will be. People who are into keyboards will know how a keyboard feels just by knowing what kind of switch it contains – that’s really the important part. I don’t like MX Brown switches like are mentioned here because to me, they just feel like rubber domes. I generally prefer "blue" switches, which are clicky, although many old-school computers had linear keyboards like my Apex Pro, so that’s why I thought I’d give it a try. I don’t mind the linear feel (it’s equivalent to "red" switches, which the Apex Pro actually has some of for the numpad, but the optical switches in the main area are a bit smoother), but I think I’ll go back to clicky next time.

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 4:36 PM

Just want to echo that: The Thinkpads under IBM definitely had better keyboards. I had a X61, friend had the X40, there was a noticeable difference.

It’s a personal preference thing, combined with potential for personalization and customizability. I’ve owned a few over the years (with cherry red, blue, and brown switches). Pretty much any mechanical switch is way nicer than the mushy dome switches you get on cheap keyboards. But, to your point, I personally prefer a good low profile, low-travel, scissor-mechanism kind of keyboard over all mechanical keyboards I’ve tried. Even lower-travel mechanical switches I’ve tried still just feel like I’m exerting more effort to achieve the same thing, and my typing speed suffers.

I still like the keyboard on my 2020 MacBook Pro more than anything else I’ve tried. A close second was the keyboard on a Surface Book I randomly tried out at the Microsoft Store a few years ago. But, for my gaming PC, I use a Logitech MX Keys, since it’s a pretty close approximation.

Posted  on Jan 29, 2022 | 2:17 PM

Everyone seems to forget that Mechanical keyboards have "N-key rollover" vs traditional membrane switches. It allows you to press 3 or more keys at once. It allows you to use customized macros not supported by the keyboard matrix membrane keyboards use (like pressing 3 or more keys on the letter area) or do moves in games that can’t be executed on a traditional keyboad (Like the 360 in the GTA San Andreas Driving school, where you have to press W, and S at the same time, then A/D to move. Most membrane keyboards would fail this)

Posted  on Jan 29, 2022 | 4:42 PM

Thank you, Logitech. That G413 TKL is <3 at first sight. Looks just perfect!

Does anyone know if a full-size (including numpad) wireless mechanical exist? Preferably NOT gamer oriented? As best as I can tell, it doesn’t, and it’s annoying.

Keychron has a couple wireless full size wireless mechanical keyboards. I’ve never used one myself but the reviews I’ve read of the brand are generally pretty positive.

I have no idea why I couldn’t find that earlier, it’s exactly what I was looking for (Keychron apparently needs some better SOE). Thanks!

I have a Keychron K8 and I really like it. I’ve had boards from Ducky, Akko, and CODE. The Keychron is just as good. My biggest disappointment is it seems like there’s still no software customization for the RGB backlighting.

Also, there is the Razer Pro Type Ultra (Pro is their productivity line)

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 1:19 PM

Do mechanical keyboards specifically designed for iMacs / MacOS exist?

omo

yes, lots. google them.

Not from Logitech, unfortunately. Matias has some.

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 1:32 PM

Keychron does. It has a switch and replaceable keys so you can switch between mac and windows

Posted  on Jan 29, 2022 | 4:48 PM

Buyer beware… I have had two G512 keyboards and the black coating has chipped on both of them. The quality of the keyboards have definitely gone down in the last few years.

They look generic ASF, go back and make non stupid versions of the g915 please…

Posted  on Jan 28, 2022 | 1:52 PM

Good for Logitech to move away on the Romer-G keys. While getting the keys themselves isn’t much of a problem, as tons of Chinese sellers sell them, the problems are the proprietary keycaps. The base snaps off inside. There were some chinese sellers willing to sell per keycap but the full set costs more than the keyboard itself.

I’ve moved on to Keychron K8 from my G513 Carbon.

Posted  on Jan 29, 2022 | 4:47 PM

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