Why Website Personalization is No Longer Optional in B2B Marketing (Episode 163)

Transcript

Jeff Bullas

00:00:03 - 00:02:05

Hi everyone and welcome to The Jeff Bullas Show. Today I have with me, Kirsty Dawe. Now, Kirsty is dialing in from the southern part of England. I'm dialing in from Sydney and I always love the tech too that allows us to talk in high definition from anywhere around the world and it's 7AM for Kirsty. So she's barely awake, but I'm sure she's had a coffee already. I'm about to have gin because it's nearly 6PM so that's okay.

Welcome to the show Kirsty and I'm just gonna tell you a little bit about you. Kirsty is the CEO of Webeo, B2B website personalization software that delivers a proven solution to the website conversion problem in B2B. Webeo’s software helps B2B organizations increase website leads by delivering highly relevant, personalized experience to the B2B buyer as soon as they hit the website and tailor that journey as they move through the funnel. They have dedicated the last 10 years to making sure their product maximizes the conversion around the complex B2B buyer journey.

Kirsty has academic and practical experience in B2B marketing and lead generation, automation, data analysis, business growth, technology innovation, and full marketing mix in various sectors. Before Webeo, she held the role of Managing Director of an award winning agency, Really B2B, for 15 years. Dawe is a, I'm gonna say, well, that was what in the bio. I'm gonna call Kirsty a DMA B2B council member. We all like to be a member of a council. I'm not sure why that's good, but that's fine. And she is a regular Superbrands judge and a proud advocate for B2B marketing worldwide. She's also a mother of 3 and that's the reason she is in the office instead of at home because she might get interrupted. She's also a mentor and a coach. So welcome to the show, Kirsty.

Kirsty Dawe

00:02:05 - 00:02:13

Thank you and thank you for that great intro. Yeah, really really happy to be here and up bright and early to chat to you.

Jeff Bullas

00:02:14 - 00:02:48

So, Kirsty, I'm always intrigued by how you get into being an entrepreneur. Because for a lot of people, it's scary. It involves, you know, someone's putting their house on the market as in, well putting their house on the line as in borrowing money. So what led you to start being an entrepreneur? What was the inspiration or were you already selling lollies to your friends at school when you were like seven? I don't know. So how did you start this entrepreneurial journey?

Kirsty Dawe

00:02:49 - 00:04:24

Yeah, I mean, I think, do you know what a big part of this journey that I'm on is around the people that I met when I was in work when I first started out in the workplace and my current group CEO who I work really, really closely with in Webeo, he was so entrepreneurial and always wanted to do his own thing. And so it, you know, like 15 years ago, that was when we set up the agency and we built that out from literally nothing. Because we had a passion about marketing and we saw there was a big problem. So for me, I think spending time with the right people makes you more ambitious and more entrepreneurial because you're like, okay, actually, we can do this a lot better than what exists out there. And then having a passion about what you're doing and the problem that you're solving makes it a lot easier because you want to constantly keep working on it. But I think surrounding yourself with other entrepreneurs gives you that confidence to go, okay, we can do this like at, you know, it's not an impossible thing because it certainly, if you're in the corporate world, it can feel like that. So surrounding yourself with the right people starts you on that journey.

Jeff Bullas

00:04:24 - 00:04:29

Cool. So if you said it was 15 years ago, was that around 2008-2009?

Kirsty Dawe

00:04:30 - 00:04:41

Yeah. And that was in my previous role when we built up a B2B marketing agency from the ground up.

Jeff Bullas

00:04:41 - 00:04:49

So this is sort of where social media marketing, content marketing, inbound marketing was starting to make its impact, wasn't it?

Kirsty Dawe

00:04:49 - 00:04:51

That's right. Yeah.

Jeff Bullas

00:04:52 - 00:05:25

Yeah. And that's what caught my eye back then as well. It's like, okay, so the rise of social media for me was like an inspiration going, okay, we can reach the world by building followers and now we have everyone in the world who wants to be an influencer because they can get followers, right? So when did you step out of the corporate world and decide, okay, we're going to do this. What year was that and was it a discussion with your colleague that was very entrepreneurial? Is that how it happened?

Kirsty Dawe

00:05:26 - 00:06:10

Yeah, that's right. So I was working and I had previously worked in a role with him and then he made the decision to go and set up the organization. And then about six months later was when I joined because I felt like, right, like I'm ready, I've got this passion for it. I know that working with that team was absolutely a success. There was no doubt in my mind about that. And partly because I said to you earlier that we saw that there was in the agency world at that time, a real gap in terms of really measurable marketing.

Jeff Bullas

00:06:11 - 00:06:25

Yeah. And because that was the challenge, wasn't it? With mass media marketing in the past is like, if you did a radio ad, you did a TV ad, you did a newspaper ad, you'd spend this money and you couldn't track it.

Kirsty Dawe

00:06:26 - 00:07:23

Yeah. And that drives me absolutely crazy. I've actually grown up in that old what used to be called direct marketing world where everything was measured to the nth degree. And, you know, I saw in B2B so much, you know, brand is super important. But so much just existing in B2B that was just about brand and media and nothing about really, really measurable marketing and wanting to bring that into the space and, you know, you talked about social media, you know, it's like, right, okay. Well, how can we make that measurable in B2B? How can we, you know, think about when we spend this on our LinkedIn or our Insta profile? Like, what is that going to drive for our organization? So, everything that we did was really measurable and that's probably in good stead for what we're doing right now.

Jeff Bullas

00:07:23 - 00:08:39

Cool. So that leads to another question is you want to measure it. So, and measuring it means where did this traffic come from? So in essence, what excited me about social media back in 2008-2009, was you can build a following and it was all very organic, right. And that organic could be from search engines, it could be from social media. On top of that then, on top of organic, there's the other big box. So there's two boxes. Number one, you earn it through creating content, building a following which drives it through organic social media. The other box is paid. In other words, you pay for Facebook ads, you pay for Google ads, you pay for Instagram ads and the list goes on and on TikTok. Okay. It just continues. So B2B marketing we talked about before we left on the call was okay so what sort of profile? And you said that we need to have clients that have at least 20,000 page views a month on their website. So do you guys focus on both organic and paid?

Kirsty Dawe

00:08:40 - 00:10:15

In terms of the solution that we offer? Yes, absolutely. So and you know what paid is often where a lot of the pain is because we are solving the, this where we are solving the problem of conversion. And B2B marketers are spending an absolute ton driving traffic to their website, whether that be through, you know, focusing on great content and getting that organic search or paid. But if they are spending on paid, which most of our customers are, there is a pain there because it is so competitive and we're all focused on, you know, these long tail keywords. And how can we drive down our cost per inquiry? We're saying we'll focus on the website. So you've got them there. How do you make that experience then personalized to them? What keyword did they come on? Where have they come from? What industry are they in? So that having done all of that work and sometimes spending, you know, hundreds and hundreds of pounds to get a, you know, a click in some cases, make sure that your website works hard for them so that you can take them to that next stage, which is a conversion to a demo request or a lead or whatever it is. That free trial is the outcome for your organization. So, yeah, PPC is where a lot of the pain or paid search media is where a lot of the pain is because we feel sick as market is looking at that, you know, tens of thousands that we're spending and what's coming out through to the bottom of the funnel.

Jeff Bullas

00:10:16 - 00:11:24

Yeah. Yeah. And that is the challenge and especially as the cost of paid advertising goes up as Facebook increases their ads, you know, their advertising. It's a little bit like what happened in the early 2000s was, you know, you could make a lot of money with Google. Because the cost of the click or paying for Google ad spend was actually very, very low. Today it's very, very different. So, and I've been frustrated past seeing that you people are driving, okay, let's drive traffic to our website and you go, and so you go to the website and you're going to a website, there's no landing page. So I get frustrated as well. It's not like a hang on you got to send it to a landing page that actually is optimized to convert, which is what you guys are about. Now, you guys do it a little bit differently as well as you put in some snippets of code that personalize it for every type of visitor. Tell us a little bit about that.

Kirsty Dawe

00:11:25 - 00:12:07

Yeah. So the code in Webeo is the simple JavaScript that will allow you to almost pull your website into the editor and edit it, change images, change text, move sections about on the web page. So that's the editor and that's how you create what we call experiences. And then you've also got your audiences. So those are the different types of visitors that you would choose to serve a personalized experience to. And we start kind of with thermographic data because that from our analysis makes the biggest difference in B2B.

Jeff Bullas

00:12:07 - 00:12:09

Sorry, what did you say? Thermographic data?

Kirsty Dawe

00:12:09 - 00:13:37

Thermographic. So, in the same way you'd have demographics. So you know that you've got females who are between 20 and 50, visiting the website, we're able to use IP data to identify a business as they hit the website and that allows you to serve a different experience to them based on, let's say their industry. So we've got a customer that does ERP software, a really different solution that they would offer for construction compared to retail or manufacturing. So as soon as that business hits the website, the whole experience, all of the key pages, all of the parts of the journey can be tailored to that industry. We can also do it on business size as well. So if they're a small organization, you know, maybe want to take them to retrial. If they're a larger organization, you want to really give them a white glove experience and then there's the opportunity to do behavioral personalization which goes wider. So they're a returning visitor, they're a returning visitor who viewed this high intent page pricing. Last time they visited the website or they downloaded a piece of content. And then the other thing that a lot of our customers do is funnel stage personalization. So we integrate with their marketing automation platform. So HubSpot, Marketo and anything that they've got a cookie for.

Jeff Bullas

00:13:38 - 00:14:34

Ok. So in terms of, okay, so a customer comes to you and they're going okay, I've got this amount of traffic on B2B and you're going, yeah good fit. And then do you have a discussion like, you've got a website but there's nowhere to leave, there's no lead acquisition. There's like no e-book to download B2B typically ebooks are usually pretty good. So do you provide a service within the software that provides a legend, you know, things like e-books or a landing page or do you have to have the conversation with the client going okay your website really sucks. We really need to have a landing page. Let us, how does that work for you?

Kirsty Dawe

00:14:35 - 00:16:08

Yeah, it depends on the maturity of the customer. I mean, most of our customers, by the very nature of the fact that they've got such a high volume of visitors are getting the basics, right? And they're using landing pages, they've got good forms, they've got good CTAs on the website, but they are serving a really generic experience. So they may, for example, be running email campaigns or social campaigns to like their target accounts. Those target accounts are hitting the website, everything is just like, you know, completely generic, whereas they would have wanted to drive them to a bespoke landing page, something that's unique for them. So where we come in is where we are, we provide guidance and advice through playbooks and through professional services on how customers can make changes to their website to drive conversion. So there's two parts to that we are looking at, you know, traditional CRO. So conversion rate optimization like where is your traffic going? Where's your highest bounce rate? Where's your biggest drop off? Because those are the high priority pages to focus on and we'll guide a customer through that using all the data in their GA and then we'll implement playbooks based on where we recommend they go first, whether that be an industry based experience, a behavioral, I mean you can layer them up but we're always about going wide and then going deep to get the most impact left.

Jeff Bullas

00:16:09 - 00:16:28

Cool because that's always a challenge, isn't it? So, you can sign a client up and then you've got to spend a lot of time educating them. So you're sort of saying we try and bring on board clients that are a little bit educated. Is that correct?

Kirsty Dawe

00:16:28 - 00:16:53

Yeah. Well, they just naturally are by the fact that they are looking at personalization as the next thing that they are going to do. But they, you know, every marketer wants best practice and show me something that someone who's done before that looks like me where they've had success because then I can replicate some of that and then I can add my own unique value proposition on top.

Jeff Bullas

00:16:54 - 00:18:00

Cool. So you develop this technology, the platform which obviously helps optimize conversions. What are some of the conversion rates like best practice conversion rate? So someone hits a page and you're maybe B2B, you're maybe selling more high ticket items. So there's, you know, in the funnel, there's obviously a different level. So number one, how many, okay, so in other words, if someone clicks, you get 100 people show up that are interested in the product of your client, then they would become a lead. In other words, they give that email that might be through a lead magnet such as an ebook or something like that. So what are some best practice statistics data in terms of 100 people hit the website, how many of those would download the e-book and become a lead, for example?

Kirsty Dawe

00:18:01 - 00:18:28

Yeah. Well, in B2B, it's not, I mean, it's probably slightly higher in B2C but best case scenario, you're probably looking at 2%. So that is, and when you think about that, like, because B2B visitors don't go on websites for B2B websites for entertainment, they don't just happen to be there.

Jeff Bullas

00:18:29 - 00:18:32

So they don't go there just to watch it like a Netflix show. No?

Kirsty Dawe

00:18:32 - 00:19:15

They are absolutely there for a reason. And so I always flip that on its head when I talk to customers because, you know, as marketers, we've just been conditioned to believe that like, you know, 1%, 2% is ok. But then when you reverse it is that you're saying that it's okay that 98% of the people that you drove there, you worked really, really hard to get to your website are just not converted. So those are the stats that we're normally working with. I mean, its higher content downloads are usually higher. You know, you might be looking at up to like 57% for a download, but a genuine lead conversion can be under 1%.

Jeff Bullas

00:19:16 - 00:21:51

Yep. See it's a real challenge, isn't it? Because we're overwhelmed with data information and that leads me to the next question and I don't know whether you'll have an answer for it, but it's very topical and I don't know whether you can guess what it's going to be about. But we now have generative artificial intelligence with ChatGPT which burst onto the scene on November 30 last year. It is the fastest growing platform to hit 100 million users that did it within eight weeks. TikTok took 18 months. Facebook took five years. So AI is challenging us as marketers and I'd be interested in your thoughts about how you see content creation platforms like ChatGPT, how they would fit into the B2B marketing scenario. And if you're gonna go saying, if you want to say that I'd rather not talk about it because it's a trade secret, that's fine. But I've been interested in your thoughts because ChatGPT blew me away in December. And we're now implementing it for us to create content, newsletters, copy, headlines. I think, you know, we actually are not gonna use some writers because they, we spent so much time editing crap writing that we decided that we ChatGPT was actually much better. So on my team, I have an editor and the editor can write content in a fraction of the time without the backwards and forwards of editing. So anyway, that's a lot of stuff and information. But I'd be intrigued by what Kirsty has to say about where she thinks that ChatGPT is gonna blow up her industry or it's gonna make it fabulous or fucking horrible. Okay. So, right. I'll be interested in your thoughts.

Kirsty Dawe

00:21:51 - 00:24:02

So that's, yeah, I mean, there's two parts to that. There's ChatGPT and there's also AI and I'm gonna cover both separately. So the first one, I'm in agreement with you like it absolutely has a place and from a resources and efficiency perspective. I think it gives us such a head start in terms of content creation. The other thing is having been a marketer myself. I know it's much easier to take something that already exists and edit it and make it better and make it fit with a value proposition than it is to sit with a blank piece of paper. And that's often where most of the energy goes. And as marketers, we all prefer that. So for us, like, you know, it's definitely part of the future with, you know, customers using that to drive headlines, maybe create pieces of content based on what has worked. The other way that we see ourselves as using is obviously we're collecting all of this data on what customers are doing and where they're generating success, personalizing their website. So, you know, going back to that same conversation point, we all prefer to edit something that already exists. Well, we should be creating best practice, you know, experiences landing pages, personalized campaigns, the customers should say, right? I want to target this industry, this location, show me what good looks like. And so the AI gives them a template and then they've still got the opportunity to edit because there is no substitute for that human who really understands the value proposition and the nuances of what makes that business unique, but they don't have to spend the time, you know, with that, where do I start? Because that's often the biggest problem we have, we just don't know where to start. Once we've got something to improve on, we're going home, we can get going. So, you know, we definitely see it as part of our product in future.

Jeff Bullas

00:24:02 - 00:26:37

Cool. Yeah, it's fascinating, you got to lean into it or you're gonna get run over by it. That's my take on it. Yeah. And what I use, we use ChatGPT for a lot of the grunt work content. We then back it up with human editing and then we also then use and verify the hallucination of ChatGPT which has been accused of, which is, in other words, it makes shit up. And because the other thing too about ChatGPT is its data is actually two years old. In other words, its data set is two years old. So it is absolutely fascinating. And I think I am seeing, you know, I saw today an announcement about a platform second generation that takes either an image or a text prompt and turns it into a video. Yeah. So what we have is, we have this incredible environment that is changing daily and we've got to make sure that as a business, we're on top of it to make sure that we amplify our efforts as humans, I still believe that, you know, AI and ChatGPT, for example, are enhancers of being human. In other words, they give us more ideas, they also create a kind of scale. So I was intrigued by, you know, seeing, wanting to know about how you felt about it. But this is the biggest, for me, this is the biggest change in marketing in a generation. I'm, yeah, and it's also much faster than social media. This is a firestorm. This is not a slow burn. Social media was a discussion that happened over many years, four or five years as it started to take hold ChatGPT is just this firestorm and look, I've been in tech and digital for a long time. I've felt overwhelmed by this. So that's why I'm writing about it to make sense of this because if you can't make sense of it, then how do you use it? And so that's why I was intrigued by it.

Kirsty Dawe

00:26:38 - 00:27:15

I think it's empowering because it releases time for us to focus on really being creative, which is what our gift is like, human beings are creative, we can come up with ideas, we can and we've got that bandwidth and that space to do so. So I'm all for the combination. There's never gonna be a substitute for the creative human mind. But some of the more, you know, like basic content. Absolutely. Like, yes.

Jeff Bullas

00:27:16 - 00:27:35

Yeah. So, it's continued to blow me away. I'm continuing to research. I spend almost every morning now actually reading about it and then I spend the afternoon writing about it because it constantly blows me away.

Kirsty Dawe

00:27:36 - 00:27:41

Oh, I have to get my hands on some of that content and that you're writing.

Jeff Bullas

00:27:41 - 00:28:30

Okay. So we'll just have like a little hat tip to one of the best really great newsletter around called Ben's Bites. Just go and Google that. He talks about tools, he talks about research, he talks about the latest releases. So, Ben's Bites and I guess where I heard that from, a guest on the podcast. So this is what I love about the podcast is that I get to chat to some of the smartest people in the world, such as yourself and just go alright. What can I learn today? I'm taking notes and that's what we try to bring to our audience is an insight into this fast changing world that has just been given a supercharged hit.

Kirsty Dawe

00:28:30 - 00:28:35

Yeah. We're just gonna have to keep paddling to keep up. Yeah.

Jeff Bullas

00:28:35 - 00:28:41

That's right. I think it's more like strap on your jetpack and sort of go, right?

Kirsty Dawe

00:28:41 - 00:28:45

Yeah, I think that’s a better analogy.

Jeff Bullas

00:28:45 - 00:29:28

So, in terms of, you've been doing this for quite a while now So, what are some, just to wrap it up here, mate, what are some of the top tips you'd say to entrepreneurs? Okay. So you're living in this safe corporate environment, you put your suit on or your business dress suit, whatever, and you go to the office and you're going, Jesus this is bloody boring. I really want to do something a little bit more interesting and I want to take control of my life rather than being a corporate, being corporate cannon fodder. So what are some of the tips you'd say to people that want to step into the entrepreneurial world that you've learned along the way?

Kirsty Dawe

00:29:28 - 00:32:52

Yeah, I think the most important one and I've done this in both of my roles is make sure you are customer facing and that's not, I'm not saying that from a PR perspective and you need to go and talk to customers, you need to jump on sales calls. You need to be there talking about the product and what's working and what is it like there is no substitute if it's your business, you have to be there having all of those conversations and that there is no one who can do that for you. Maybe in the corporate world, you had a team who came to you with information you've got to go and listen to that yourself because that's the only way you'll be able to make effective decisions you've got and continue. Don't ever let yourself get so far removed that you're not having those conversations with customers all the time. Because if you're the one who could see the problem, initially, you're going to continue to be the best brain to solve that problem ongoing. And obviously as you grow, there'll be more people who have those conversations, but don't sit in an ivory tower, keep talking to your customers all the time. Like I get so much value from those conversations in terms of how we develop the product and solution. And back in my agency, I was selling that was like my, I was always out there talking to customers. I would go to see customers to sell, to do pictures with them. Like how else am I gonna understand what their problems are unless I do that. So that would be my first piece of advice and then also like validate everything that you're doing. So when you are talking with customers and making developments to solutions, especially in the tech world, customers are so brilliant at being able to spot things that you might not have. So and they're great at being happy to validate those things. So if you're making a development, don't start and then wait until it's done before you talk to customers, talk to them along the way and constantly validate what you're doing, especially because this world is so fast moving and something might have changed, you know, it also stops you making really, really expensive mistakes which, you know, in software with dev cost and resource are huge and, yeah, I think those, for me it's just, it's absolutely talking to customers and always seeing everything through their eyes. And then I suppose the final part would be just culturally you're not going to build because I, you know, I hear people who work for entrepreneurial businesses who find it quite challenging. Like look after your people. Like, you know, you are a football team, you are a soccer team, like you got to get them understanding the why and what you're doing because if they're not brought into it, the product or what you're doing isn't gonna fly. So culture is so, so important, especially as you grow.

Jeff Bullas

00:32:53 - 00:35:24

Yeah, I love that last bit, especially because I find my job as the CEO and Founder of jeffbullas.com and Side Hustle Strategies and so on is that I wanna make sure that my team has got what they need so they can look after the customer. And so that means then my job is to look after them so they can look after the customer. My job is not to look after the customer and my job is actually give them the tools and resources. And also, and the other part of that I would totally agree with is what you mentioned was, okay, you gotta make sure that your vision is clear of what you're doing and then you got to bring them with you. And, so one of the things we are certainly leaning into and I'm very, love, you know, my team for what they've done is I said, okay, so this is ChatGPT, this is a game changer and we need to lean into this and the whole team has leaned into it and they're excited and they are producing ideas of how to use it, which I wouldn't have thought of. So, you gotta go, okay, this and for me, a leader needs to be, you know, needs to be visionary and needs to be okay. So this is what's happening in our space here. And what we need to do is we need to make sure that you as a team understand that. And I want you to come on the journey with me and you've got to just not sell them on it, but you've actually got to be in a position where you've done enough research, enough reading, going guys, this is where we've got to go and this is why we need to do this. And if you do that and you bring the team with you and the other part of that is, if you can say to the team, like they get excited because they are learning, right? And it's so that it is all part of the culture in a nuts and bolts way, which I, I love doing. And also get out of the way and let them trust them to produce, you know, what you're going, I'm not gonna tell you what to do. I know where we wanna go. And I'm gonna trust you to come up with the ideas within that and then they go, hey, shit, I've got some work to do and he trusts me to do this and then it becomes a lot more fun.

Kirsty Dawe

00:35:24 - 00:36:06

That's so important. And I think the other thing when you were talking there, the other thing that I think is really important as an entrepreneur is to know your strengths and weaknesses and to be really comfortable with bringing in people to work with you who are better at certain things than you are because sometimes as an entrepreneur there, you know, you can't let ego get in the way of any of that. You have to go look, I'm not great at that. You're better at that. I need you to do that and, and then you'll fly because you're using your strengths in the right way. And that can be difficult for people to acknowledge, you know, but no one is perfect. We're all works in progress. We all have weaknesses to find someone who's better than you to do that.

Jeff Bullas

00:36:06 - 00:37:36

Yeah, exactly. And I'm crap at detail and processing systems. So I surround myself with, you know, I surround myself with people that are really good at that. And I'm not that good technically either. And I remember wrestling with WordPress, you know, a decade ago and going oh God and I did a shit job at that, but I had to do it because at that time I needed to. But since then, yeah, you gotta realize where you're good and when you're not good and let the team look after it and they will, they would, they constantly surprised me and I love that. So it was all cool. One other question before we wrap up is which we didn't touch on and I'd be interested in your thoughts about this is that when you're talking about B2B, B2C, it really doesn't matter. You need to have data and a dashboard. So how do you guys, what do you guys do in that sort of data and dashboard area to help you get visibility? Because if you got the data on what's happening, you're going well, that page isn't working. So I need to optimize that and that data will tell you that. So I find data inspiring ‘cause I'm going this piece of content worked brilliantly. This landing page worked well. The free trial works well. How does data in your dashboard work for you guys in your industry?

Kirsty Dawe

00:37:36 - 00:39:00

Yeah, so well, there's two parts to that obviously in Webeo we have the full reporting suite so our customer can see. Okay. This is my personalized version of the website versus non, this was the difference in conversion rate, bounce rate. We call it the event rate when someone maybe does something like download a piece of content. So that's all really, really measurable. And that can be broken down and cut in different ways for a customer to look at and then also identify opportunities. So pages that aren't performing well that either you're personalizing or you're not to say, well, look, if you did more with these, you would get a better result. But today's marketer doesn't just want to have to look at all of these different reports. They want it in one place. So for us, the integration into our customers Marketo, HubSpot, Pardot so that all of the data that we're collecting can be pushed into their platforms and then shared in their own solution through whether that's Tableau, Power BI or they're pulling off Marketo, that's really important. We've got to make our customers' lives easier. So it's about creating a solution that is in one place if they want it to be and it just depends on the majority of the customer.

Jeff Bullas

00:39:01 - 00:39:25

Yeah, it's, you don't wanna overwhelm them with data but you need to provide them with data. In other words, the sort of term I think about is distilled data that an executive can make a decision and going. Okay, here's 7 things I need to know or 5 or 10, whatever it is, but don't give them 300 pieces of data and expect them to be able to make a good decision.

Kirsty Dawe

00:39:26 - 00:39:30

No. Yeah. Yeah, it’s about showing them how to use it. Yeah.

Jeff Bullas

00:39:31 - 00:40:15

Yeah. Okay. And what do we need to do with this data? Yeah, exactly. So, Kirsty, thank you very much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure and thank you for dialing in from the south of England and you told me the weather's not good and it's blowing as well.

So Kirsty, have a great day as it's an early morning there for you and absolute pleasure, Kirsty, to chat and I've learned a lot from you today and so looking forward to maybe catching up in real life and having a rosé, a chardonnay or a beer. I don't know what you like or whatever.

Kirsty Dawe

00:40:16 - 00:40:21

Any of those sounds great. And you enjoy your gin and tonic for tonight. Have a lovely evening.

Jeff Bullas

00:40:21 - 00:40:25

Thanks, Kirsty.