Florida EVs May Be Charged 'Inductively' By One Mile of Highway - Slashdot
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Florida EVs May Be Charged 'Inductively' By One Mile of Highway
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A Norwegian company named ENRX "wants to inductively charge electric vehicles with 200 kW while driving on a section of highway in Florida," according to the "electric mobility industry" news site electrive.com.
"A one-mile section of a four-lane highway near Orlando is to be electrified."
ENRX has teamed up with the Central Florida Expressway Authority and the Aspire Engineering Research Center for an initiative to build a one-mile (1.6-kilometre) section on a four-lane highway near Orlando that will inductively charge the batteries of moving electric vehicles at 200 kW.
The principle is clear: the electric vehicle batteries are fitted with a special receiver pad and charged as they drive over the coils embedded in the road. In the process, the energy is transferred from these coils to the receiver pad mounted on the vehicle floor, which according to ENRX should provide "a safe, wireless power supply" even at motorway speeds. Advantages of the 'Next Generation Electric Roadway system' mentioned include interoperability, different output power levels for different vehicle and battery types, or user-defined distance between the ground and the vehicle. In addition, the system (on the infrastructure side) is supposed to be maintenance-free after installation...
"When you can charge while driving, range anxiety and frequent charging stops will be a thing of the past," says ENRX CEO Bjørn Eldar Petersen... "Dynamic charging can reduce the need for large battery capacities, allowing cars to be equipped with lighter and more affordable battery packs."
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader aduxorth for sharing the news.
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If you want to do it the hard way and not string up overheard wires, that is.
Also, 200 kW * 1 mi / 60+mph 3.3 kWh.
Which I guess just covers the mile driven and a little extra for most EVs. So yeah.
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Not if you slow down. And with any subsequent crashes, the opportunity for full charges.
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EVs get about 4 miles per kWh, so 1 mile of charging can give 13 miles of range according to your math.
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You're assuming 100% efficiency. Conductive charging is probably the least efficient method of charging.
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Inductive.
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lol. Yes. Mistyped. Conductive is the most efficient!
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From what I've read, that's not actually necessarily true when you get up to the size levels of a EV.
Basically, the system can be big enough and accurate enough to be within a few percent of a direct connection - at least when parked. Not sure about mobile attempts.
Anyways, because you normally need to use a transformer(which works on induction anyways) in cable charging, you just separate that into two parts, and with enough attention to efficiency, you aren't losing much over a dedicated single piece tra
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The inverse-square law would beg to differ.
At city-bus-scales, "almost as efficient" is a difference of many, many kW/hr of power-transfer; which of course translates to significantly longer charging times.
It may be just a spread-apart transformer; but it is spread-apart!
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Figured that!
Just making sure the aliens hadn't slipped in some alternative physics while I wasn't looking!!!
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It is less efficient but only by a few percent when the car that is charging is stationary - not sure if its the same when moving.
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Which EVs are those? The best ones top out at 3, but that's by sacrificing overall range by having a tiny battery to lug around. Bigger boys are 2.5 and down.
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My 2012 Nissan Leaf was about 4.2 miles per kW. My 2016 Tesla S was about 3.6, as is my 2022 Tesla S. And my wife's Tesla 3 is about 3.8.
I don't know what you consider "the best ones" vs "the big boys", but those are real stats from cars I have had over the years.-
I'll add that I only ever felt the range was sacrificed on the Leaf. My original S and my wife's 3 each get an estimated range of about 300 miles per charge (and a realistic one of about 250-275 depending on conditions). My current S is estimated at 400, and I haven't driven it far enough away from home to have to charge it outside a daily trip. I suspect it's probably realistically about 350 if I were to drive it at freeway speeds for hours on end.
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That 200 KW is for every car on the 1 mile stretch.
I suspect a suitably equipped car driving over 1 mile patch will 'pick up' less electricity tgat they expended driving over that mile of roadway, but I do think at the end of the mile the car will expend slightly less net energy than it would have after driving any other mile of roadway.
This is a stupid idea.
Who's paying for the constant 200KW they are going to pump into this one mile of roadway?
An EV uses 1/300th of its battery capacity driving one mile -
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I have to wonder what this is going to do to various radio waves in the area. Perhaps the FCC has something to say? Or have they been bought off, again?
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I was wondering how much aluminum cars would slow down.
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LOL thx for the laugh. I never even thought of it.
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Low frequency with most of the power transferred through near field effects. No real effect on anything anyone would normally call a "radio wave", like kHz to to MHz. Of course, if you do end up radiating in those bands then the FCC will indeed expect to be "paid off" in fairly large fines, through their attached collectors called "the courts" and their enforcers known as "the police".
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Inductive charging electric vehicles would damage the body chemistry of anyone in the vehicles.
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Especially if they've been vaccinated for polio!
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Inductive charging is terrible for 5G nanocells, too!
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The first Salk one killed hundreds of people. It was only used because the disease was far worse.
The current Sabin vaccine can give other people polio, so it is important that everyone in a community is vaccinated. (Vaccinated people can shed some polio, but not be affected themselves.)
The failed Koprowski vaccine is probably what created HIV due to botched trials in the Belgian Congo. It was made using Chimpanzees kidneys, that were probably infected with HIV's source virus SIV, and HIV emerged just aft
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Anti-radiation underwear is included with purchase.
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Aluminium foil is cheaper, adjustable to more head sizes -- and recyclable!
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Good thing it's adjustable. You know where most of those heads are firmly ensconced. Could use an LED headlamp, too.
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Then no one would survive an MRI.
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MRIs use far less energy.
MRI [google.com]-
And the average person will be exposed for much less time.
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Who's paying for the electricity here? If this is happening on a large scale, you are talking about a whole lotta juice.
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The roadways are solar.
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Wow, what idiots modded you down? Solar really isn't free. Taxpayers would have to fund the construction of this and it would only benefit a very tiny portion of mostly rich people. Got to love the tax everyone for the benefit of the rich crowd. No thanks.
Also, why doesn't this Norwegian company start this pilot program in Norway first. Lets see how it does their before we try it over here.
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I also got modded flamebait for suggesting DeSantis would veto this if the ICE crowd decided EV's are too "woke". Is anyone paying attention to what is happening in Florida?! As soon as someone suggested that electric stoves might be better for your health than having natural gas in your home he immediately proposed a sales tax exemption for gas stoves. And that is BY FAR the least offensive thing this fascist wanna-be has done.
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Because contrarianism is a vote getter. Well, maybe, maybe not, we'll see in the election, but it does seem to get campaign funds at least.
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- * most roads are taxpayer-funded anyway
- * the number of people it will benefit is going to increase in the future (and as I understand it, this idea is directly aimed at increasing this number; also, it can be argued that more people switching to EVs is going to benefit everybody, not only the ones driving)
- * Florida has a lot more sun and a lot less snow than Norway
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And some people don't even want the roads to be tax funded, they prefer toll roads so that the poor won't be able to get near their fancy neighborhoods. Some don't want anything to be tax funded, and want a return to the good old days of inequality.
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Thought experiment:
Take a fully-charged EV with a 300 mile range
Drive that EV over 300 miles of this charging roadway
At the end of 300 miles, how much further could it travel on regular (non-charging) roadway?
I suspect the answer is a couple dozen miles, maybe...
Now, let's talk about the power source that will supply 200 KW PER MILE of roadway 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?
The NJ Turnpike is 117.2 miles long, to do this on all 117.2 miles would require 200 KW x 2 (both sides of turnpike) x 117.2, or 47 MW/h
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This road is being built in Florida, not NJ. Nobody suggested that this scheme was supposed to cover 100% of all roads in the US.
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the fuel "solar" is free, the equipment, which is a capital expense, to utilise it is not.
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What BS is this that only rich crowd would benifit from it. Charging through induction while driving is actually a way to get cars cheaper as the need for bigger batteries are lessened. Yeah EV's are very expensive today, but they already have come down in price, and in a decade they will be just as expensive or even less are current ICE versions.
This Norwegian company already has a few of the pilot programs running in Norway and it's a succes, and that's why Florida wants to test it also in their state..
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Toll pass billed?
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That's not a bad idea. Especially if you create special lanes for the EVs so that the EVs are in effect paying a road tax that they are currently avoiding via the gas tax. And I say this as an avid EV owner.
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The receiver could meter usage. It will probably be mostly used by commercial operators, not private car owners.
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So EV owners will self-report? Sounds, uh, unlikely.
This is a very inefficient means of charging an EV, you'd be better off placing the charging pads under the roadway at stoplights.
You'd only have to prepare 100-150 yards per stop light, the EV will sit in position for 30 seconds, not burning any electricity while charging, and you could turn off the charge pad when the stoplight is green, cutting electricity usage.
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Good point. The electricity company must be getting robbed blind because they rely on building owners to self report energy usage.
Oh wait, they don't, they have a tamper proof meter and these days often a radio transceiver that reports back the readings automatically.
The technology has been demonstrated to work and is reasonably efficient. It will probably be used by commercial operators mostly, where covering the cost of the efficiency losses would be worth it to reduce time when stationary.
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Unfortunately, nobody has ever figured out how to charge for electricity.
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and how do you know this? It would be a pointless exercise if they didn't know how to make money from it.
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You'd probably have to register your car to use it and the system will have to initiate some sort of handshake to check before it starts charging so you'll be charged
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Anyone want to take a guess on how much energy loss will accompany this? Oh right, read the article:
Details on how the solution works exactly or how it differs from other systems for dynamic inductive charging are not mentioned in the press release. It is also not specified, for example, with what tolerance the vehicle must be moved above the ground coil – precise alignment above a charging pad on the ground is already an important factor in stationary inductive charging. The efficiency of the energy transfer is also not yet known.
. . .
ENRX are not the only ones working on “smart roads”, still the claims appear astonishing compared to one of the longer running projects in Gotland, Sweden. Here technology company ElectReon claims a fully electric 40-ton truck and trailer have reached speeds up to 80 kph and received an average power of 70 kW from the electrified roadway.This may be May 7th, but the phrase still applies: This is not the solution you are looking for.
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My first reaction too was that they're going to lose a lot of energy to inductive inefficiency, but they are planning to power it with solar. While it's not ideal, at least that lost energy isn't going to burn something.
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It would take 300 acres of solar panels to power the NJ turnpikes 117.2 miles - where would they go? Where would you put the batteries to power the road at night?
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Isn't this supposed to be a system to supplement battery power? Nobody is suggesting that it should be used on every road in the US. I suspect that most miles are driven during daylight hours, so again it would function adequately as a supplemental power system.
That said, I seriously doubt that this system will ever catch on - currently 0% of vehicles are capable of recharging on such a road.
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Only a matter of time before Florida Man gets a flat and attempts to jack up his car over the coils, frying himself in the process.
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When the gators cross the road they will become giant supercharged monsters!
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They'd probably be fine — Florida Man would have ruined the coils on purpose the month prior.
People ICE'ing EV charging spots, rolling coal, etc, makes me honestly think that someone with a low IQ would come up with the idea to rolling coal down the highway with something dragging off their truck to ruin the coils (a chain and anchor to compliment their rolling coal?)
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If it were my project, I would want to do it in a state with a legislature and governor less prone to rejecting science and objecting to green energy projects!
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I'm all in for BEVs and charging infrastructure is where money needs to be spent. Reading the linked article there is no mention of the cost. Inductive charging is cool but insanely expensive. It also overlooks the fact cars spend most of their life parked. That is where charging needs to be. Putting level 2 charging in most long term car parks is what is needed, and would cost a tiny faction of what it cost to widely deploy inductive charging roads.
Oh, and its 2023, not 1999, BEV range anxiety is m-
True, most BEV owners are single family residence owners. Otherwise, everyone else living in multi-family structures does not have access to overnight charging. So clearly, range anxiety could very well be an issue for most the population. The best way to solve this problem is of course to continue expanding the amount of charging stations there are.
This same technology could be used to cover the parking lot of the local grocery store and would be much more useful.
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Yes, I would rather see investment in street side charging and public car park charging to help those who can't charge at home. It would be a far more productive use of money that powering cars on the move, as it would benefit more people per dollar. Also a pick up system that can get close enough to the road to work while allow you to clear speed bumps and angled driveways is going to add way more cost to a car than several level 2 charging points. Also we are trying to make BEVs more affordable for the
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* Single family residences with off street parking
Its going to be interesting to see how the phasing out of ICE vehicles is going to go in European cities and towns - thinking about several places I used to live in the UK, charging at home is going to be a nightmare.
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Well... most smart BEV owners start with each day at a 70-80% full charge unless they are using the relatively new Model Y battery chemistry because charging to 100% wears the batteries harder and faster. However, the rest of your point is valid in that most BEV owners start with what they probably consider "a full tank" every single day, and yes, it is pretty awesome.
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Yes, "full charge" and "full tank" is usually taken to mean charged to the programmed limit, in my case 80%.
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Range anxiety these days is held more by people who don't own EVs as opposed that do.
With experience you learn how much charge you need to complete the trip you are about to take. Most people will hop in their car with 1/3 tank of gas and go to work. But an EV with 50% charge gives them heebie jeebies.
What's the difference? Just experience. You are used to driving your gas car with a mostly empty tank and you know that a gas station is usually at hand if you need it. Over a month or two of driving it and you are used to the same thing in your EV. It isn't about the range.
This project may be technically interesting on some level but other than that it is jsut a waste of time. Not needed. And will never be implemented.
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If and only if it were widely deployed, this could allow EVs to be redesigned with smaller and much cheaper battery packs.
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But battery prices are dropping so fast that it seems unlikely that in-road charging this would be economically advantageous.
And doubly so given the likely maintenance problems it would cause.
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And has always been stupid. It's a neat idea on the very surface level in a scifi sort of way but this and soloar roadways and walkways are just cash grabs trying to bilk some VC money. Stationary induction charging also sounds good and is more practical but it's just so godamn lossy that it's be downright criminal to standardize it today or the near future for vehichles. .
How many regular and fast chargers could have gotten installed for the money that has been invested and spent here? Those owuld have made a far greater impact on EV adoption.
Batteries will continue to get better and ranges will continue to improve and the idea of charge on the go for passenger vehichles will hopefully fall away for good (or focus on something like busses and light rail where it actually might make sense with overhead lines)
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If you're gonna go to that much trouble, why not just go all the way and make the cars MagLev?
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Or how about better city planning so walking and biking are sufficient for most things, and better mass transportation; instead of paving the entire planet with tar and concrete
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The only ones truly driving in cities are taxis, people who can afford limos, and delivery vehicles. The vast majority of people living in and visiting cities walk or use the public transportation.
That said, if you never want to leave your little city, then this isn't for you. Others like to get out and see the country which means being able to drive. While I'm also against putting concrete and blacktop over everything, certain realities exist. Unless you can think of a better way to get all that stuff i
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Say what? Our census has questions on how people commuted to work that day. The latest census was 2021, so there was a fair amount of COVID influence on these results:
59.2% of people travelled to work in a private car,
6.2% took public transport and
2.9% rode a bike or walked.
17.4% worked at home.
When it comes to overall public transport usage, 35% of residents in my city use PT.
Agreed.
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beeeecause you don't want to live on top of a factory where they make the things you need?
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Not to mention the extra weight for the coils and whatever other circuitry is needed to support them (a giant high-current, high-voltage full-wave bridge, I'm guessing, plus probably large capacitors to smooth it so you aren't delivering pulses to your batteries), plus the whole problem of needing to get the voltage right on the other end to avoid burning out the batteries, plus extra contactors to disable charging while the battery is full so that it doesn't suddenly catch fire on the highway, plus circuit
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It's in Florida. I'm not driving all the way from Virginia to charge my vehicle.:-)
But, more seriously: Florida.
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Looks like F-Zero already saw this coming. How long until Formula E starts trying the same thing for motor racing?
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Formula E would have to develop a very very slim mobile one as they use street circuits
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Any near field technology is bound by the 1/r^3 rule.
The magnetic induction field strength reduces massively as soon as there is an air gap between the transmitter and receiver.This is why transformers always share the same magnetic core. A ferrous material such as laminated steel for low frequency, or a ferrite core for high frequencies act as a low impedance for magnetic fields. but as soon as you have that air gap, the 1/r3 rule kicks in.
To share the magnetic core in this type of application, you need to -
Politically it's turning into a right-wing hell hole, and it's a low-lying swamp that will be mostly rendered uninhabitable by climate change.
It's the last place I'd be building expensive infrastructure.
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No more inductive charging, it's expensive and it's lossy. The only way to make it work is to bring the coils closer together. To make coils in roadways for lengths long enough to drive is prohibitively expensive. We've had electronics to do this for 30 years and it hasn't been done because it's too expensive. But every once in awhile some research group somehow gets a grant to do and waste even more money. We are restricted by electronics we're restricted by the laws of physics
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Came here to say the same thing. Inductive charging is not even close to a viable solution. This will never happen. This company found some suckers to fund something they know isn't viable.
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The idea of cars driving on a highway, at highway speeds, charging as they go from the road... it's solving the problem in the hardest possible way.
A much simpler way: put an inductive charging coil in a parking space, and let it charge a car that is parked in that space.
I now expect inductive parking spaces to be the preferred future way for charging robotaxis. I know Tesla experimented with a tentacle snake charger [youtube.com]... the inductive charger is a no-moving-parts solution.
Plus, if this article can be believ
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We get it. You have daddy issues and need to show off how manly you think you are by driving loud things and eating nothing but meat.
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How much will that 1 mile cost to build ? How much $$ to kept it energized ?
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You're putting a charge into a highway. The cars will be able to use a tiny fraction of that. The rest will dissipate as heat. I'd love to see the efficiency studies on this one.
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