Microsoft Plans Major Platform Upgrades for 'Windows 12' That Will Modernize the...
source link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/03/28/1747211/microsoft-plans-major-platform-upgrades-for-windows-12-that-will-modernize-the-os-with-ai-and-faster-updates?sbsrc=md
Go to the source link to view the article. You can view the picture content, updated content and better typesetting reading experience. If the link is broken, please click the button below to view the snapshot at that time.
Microsoft Plans Major Platform Upgrades for 'Windows 12' That Will Modernize the OS With AI and Faster Updates
Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!
binspamdupenotthebestofftopicslownewsdaystalestupid freshfunnyinsightfulinterestingmaybe offtopicflamebaittrollredundantoverrated insightfulinterestinginformativefunnyunderrated descriptive typodupeerror
Sign up for the Slashdot newsletter! or check out the new Slashdot job board to browse remote jobs or jobs in your area.
The big change with CorePC versus the current shipping version of Windows is that CorePC is state separated, just like Windows Core OS. State separation enables faster updates and a more secure platform via read-only partitions that are inaccessible to the user and third-party apps, just like on iPadOS or Android. [...] CorePC splits up the OS into multiple partitions, which is key to enabling faster OS updates. State separation also enables faster and more reliable system reset functionality, which is important for Chromebook compete devices in the education sector.
[...] My sources tell me CorePC will allow Microsoft to finally deliver a version of Windows that truly competes with Chromebooks in OS footprint, performance, and capabilities. [...] Microsoft is also working on a version of CorePC that meet the current feature set and capabilities of Windows desktop, but with state separation enabled for those faster OS updates and improved security benefits. The company is working on a compatibility layer codenamed Neon for legacy apps that require a shared state OS to function, too. Lastly, I hear that Microsoft is experimenting with a version of CorePC that's "silicon-optimized," designed to reduce legacy overhead, focus on AI capabilities, and vertically optimize hardware and software experiences in a way similar to that of Apple Silicon. Unsurprisingly, AI experiences are a key focus for Windows going into 2024.
-
›
"State separation enables faster updates and a more secure platform via read-only partitions that are inaccessible to the user and third-party apps, just like on iPadOS or Android."
You mean the devices that don't actually let you control your devices because the OS is locked off in a part of storage that you can't access without root, which you can't get without probably bricking the device?
You are not doing a goddamn thing to my box that makes part of it inaccessible to me. Hard no.
After 25 years of being strictly a Windows user, my last MS OS was Win7 and now it's going to stay that way even if you put a gun to my head. I don't even like my Android phone at this point because of the hard partition setup. Once it's a little more mature I'm probably going PinePhone.
-
wait for dell to say system 3 year old = no more core updates
-
A Dell that lasts 3 years? LOL.
-
Just trying to make the obligatory joke, but it does intersect with this FP thread, even considering the change of Subject.
As regards the first Subject, I really miss the days of feeling like I really owned the computer I purchased. Long time ago...
These days there is almost nothing in the new cruft that I want. Especially not the eye candy.
Now on the brand topic of the second Subject... My primary machine is sick and it's time to buy a new one while the old data is still accessible (and yes, I just freshen
-
I've been pretty happy with ASUS overall-- they made my favorite gaming laptop, in addition to the most recent commodity one I bought for work.
I haven't explored Linux compatibility in detail on these machines yet, but the hardware has been solid. I will probably be looking at Linux again soon, however, considering how Windows continues to increasingly piss me off. If all goes well there I would be happy to make an ASUS my last machine.
On the subject of Windows, I'm just so tired of basic function
-
-
Is this supposed to be funny? Virtually all Dells I've ever used that weren't thrown out for being obsolete are still running. My employers have generally standardized on them and there's nothing that makes you feel more wanted than using the same damned desktop for 7 years;-)
There's a lot to criticize about Dells, but a failure to last isn't one of them. You're not one of these Apple users who thinks, just like all Android phones are "Samsung", all Windows computers are "Dell" and therefore "{invent cr
-
There would be a case to be made about some of the low end consumer devices for Dell, or really any manufacturer. That, or just bad luck.
As an example, I had a Dell Alienware laptop a few years back. There was a bios update involving Intel ME, related to spectre, They botched the update, rolling back wouldn't resolve because it was related to the management engine. I think they finally released a working update, months later. I'm not certain if it fixed those that were affected, as I replaced the computer
-
-
I pulled a cheap Dell i3 laptop from the recycling bin at work. The only problem it had was a failed slow platter drive. A $20 SSD and it’s been running fine since. Stop abusing things and they will last.
-
My last two Dells lasted 10+ years each, easily outlasting several Windows versions.
-
If it's a laptip with user replaceable batteries or a high-end desktop you'll have a chance.
-
-
It's four years on Apple's machines. Then two more years of "We'll fix it if we think it's important."
That's barely acceptable on a laptop, not at all for a desktop.
-
-
Theyâ(TM)ve been talking about making âoeoneâ Windows for all platforms for over ten years. Thatâ(TM)s why the Xbox One was named as such. And yet still x86 Windows is still 99% off the usage of the OS.
-
Every time someone talks about "modernizing" a piece of software all they actually do is make it 10 times worse.
What the farking fark??? Anyone who uses the words "performance", "capabilities" and "Chromebook" in the same sentence is insane. Nobody who needs to do actual work is doing it on a Chromebook. If Microsoft believes they are competing against Chromebooks in any area, other than maybe super-cheap low-end laptops, they are even more incompetent and retarded than I thought.
-
"Every time someone talks about "modernizing" a piece of software all they actually do is make it 10 times worse."
Do you mean to tell me that you aren't excited about rounded corners? Can you say "refreshed", "clean", or any of the other buzzwords? No? Neither can I.
-
The more rounded the corners, the more patronizing and restrictive in terms of the user having control over things.
Seriously, they think that their entire user base are toddlers and I noticed this was increasingly so as the corners became more rounded.
-
-
-
-
It is a pity you got modded down, because you make a valid point. These 'not user accessible' partitions are nothing new, you can still get at them if you want to, they just are not visible through normal means.. system restores have worked that way for ages. You can always reboot in a mode that can interact with them, but they are protected during normal operation.
-
-
If your OS fails to load then the device isn’t bricked.
-
Sounds like a/usr and/home type setup to me. You actually have to be logged in as an admin to do any updating or installing around the base system.
It should also mean that if you need to move all your stuff to something new, you just copy/home while the new base system should be ready to go for the new hardware without having to reconfigure or reinstall all your cat apps.-
IT's also making Windows applications fully containerized. No more twiddling with the registry for one. Also application specific data like configuration is in the container, not a AppData/local/wherever/whatever. This it's very similar to MacOS apps which try to put everything in a single directory, only containerized.
Now making the OS in a "read only" partition might worry some people but consider that this is not declared to be mandatory for all Windows and instead feels like an option for some platfo
-
It do make sense to containerize, but that must apply to each part of the office system too in order to block weird things propagating.
However it must be possible for the user to select this high level of security or opt out of it even if it may require a reboot into a maintenance mode or something similar where the protected partitions can be accessed.
-
-
-
Are you still laughing at us now when we warned you about "trusted computing"?
-
-
More crap almost nobody needs.
More bloat.
Shittier interface.-
Maybe there is a slight chance they get rid of that terrible start... whatever that is supposed to be in Windows 12. A phone's start screen should not be the model for the icon layout. I don't even use that screen on my phone. That said, the pattern is a terrible release followed by one that makes things a lot better.
-
The start screen is gone. You boot directly to desktop as an option in W8.1, and always to desktop in W10. Now the start button opens up a windows, with extra junk you don't necessarily want, with declining levels of customization, and W11 is backsliding yet again, but it's not what you see on bootup. Ignore the "frequently used" stuff to the right, the left side still acts like a verticle list of applications.
-
The terrible start that originated in Win8 I assume.
Before then it was OK. Better than the Program Manager that preceded it.
-
-
Modular bloat is a start. Bloat that is only loaded into RAM if you open older software.
-
Does anyone want to send them the obligatory telegram:
Dear Microsoft, stop.
Please please please please
Stop.
-
-
So they can pull all the "your current machine doesn't meet the minimum specs for Windows 12" like they did with Win11? No thanks.
-
No why would they? They already got their wish, and by the time Windows 11 goes EOL your old TPM free computer will have been melted in toxic sludge pit to recover metals in Bangalore.
-
By which time Bangalore is no more due to Global Warming.
-
-
-
all my games now can be played on linux and i dont need all this spyware they keep tacking on and other garbage
your not even end a windows ten yet already talking about 12 so 11 is a failure then?-
Agreed. With this announcement, I will be looking into which flavor of Linux to switch my company to.
What MS fails to grasp is that I am the God of my machines / network, and I like it that way. Got a MCSE from back when that was worth something (go ahead and laugh), with Gates's e-sig scrawled on it, that specifically says I know wtf I'm doing. I know what they're lying about when they advertise new 'features,' I know how to fix the problems that they swear can never occur (shut the f*ck up MS Support, you
-
I like Kubuntu, but other distributions with KDE might also be worth looking at it. KDE is generally more Windows-like in terms of the UI, so it should be less new learning for the users.
-
-
-
I remember MS doing this, where code in Windows is separated via some kernel level permission, then it gets slammed in the field, repeat. Even Windows XP would quietly replace system files with ones out of a cache directory if they were corrupted.
How is this different from what we have now, other than going to something similar to MacOS and an immutable core OS filesystem? Will Secure UEFI be able to deter bootkits or something that is RAM resident and not disk based, similar to how Magisk works on Android stuff to allow rooting but not touch the core immutable image (and this render the system unable to receive updates?)
MS could use this concept to do some security improvements. Everything from having the desktop OS in a seamless VM, ensuring that malware in that can't get to hardware for rogue firmware attacks, to easy backups of user data via snapshots, to easy erasing/resetting of a machine without a full reinstall.
However, it will take a few revs of this for me to become convinced this is something that is going to be an enhancement, as opposed to something that adds complexity and administration overhead, perhaps something that can cause security nightmares, especially if there is a remote root hole found in the immutable OS which only can be fixed via unplugging the machine from the network.
-
Do you really need to ask? It is Microsoft. They are only interested in money. They will do this the cheapest way they can and the only reason they are doing it at all is customer pressure and the need to fake progress. So, as usual, you can expect this to make your work harder but to not actually give any material benefits.
Microsoft is now well on the way that whatever they do, it will make their sorry excuse for an OS slower, more bloated, more complex, harder to use and less secure. If they were interest
-
Can they at least get rid of the Registry once and for all?
-
Not without either kludging together some backwards-compatible translation service from whatever new form of settings storage they come up with, as there's thousands of apps and such that are expecting a registry to exist.
So sure, you've gotten rid of the "registry" but everything requires the registry, so you just are inserting more CPU cycles between getting your setting and doing something with it, until literally every application is updated to use the new thing, which will then undoubtedly suck just as much as the Windows Registry.
-
Systemd is one step from implementing that exact feature. No more plain text files in/etc because it’s all moved to a flat database.
-
Systemd, the system that is very much configured using files in/etc is removing files from/etc? Yeah I'm with you bro, they too legalised weed in my state.
-
-
Having a registry is fine. But have you ever heard of any other database that gets corrupted so easily? Can't run any utilities on it. Can't roll back changes - Microsoft even decided to disable System Restore, thinking that DISM/SFC would be enough as if they completely forgot about it.
What they need to do is just port the whole registry to a new database engine. Granted, I'm only familiar with relational databases and not sure what would take its place. They don't even have repair/cleanup utilities f
-
System Restore never worked in any of the cases I needed it, it only made things worse.
-
-
-
They had good company back then . . .
https://tedium.co/2019/02/28/i... [tedium.co]
-
-
...on a compatibility layer codenamed Neon"
Uh, isn't that the name of KDE's Linux build? Hows about 'Xenon' instead? Caesium?-
Based on the current description, they should call it Plutonium. I'm more likely to eat Plutonium than go anywhere near the OS that Microsoft is describing.
-
-
Chromebooks don't work for FAT apps or high end gaming.
1st is MS going to write good and fast video drivers with rapid updates? Will there be an way for ATI / nvidia to have installers that can update the drivers in the core OS?
Will there be sand boxing that will kill steam? (BIG ANTITRUST ISSUES)
Will this kill game mods.Maybe some enterprises can get away with the limited app setup of an Chromebook but ones with lot's of in house or 3rd party apps not so much.
-
Chromebooks don't work for FAT apps
So use NTFS.
*runs away*
-
-
Microsoft Plans Major Platform Upgrades for 'Windows 12' That Will Modernize the OS With AI and Faster Updates
Microsoft = OK
Major platform upgrades = typically this is market-speak for rug-pull
Windows 12 = Windows 10 is the last windows ever.
Modernize the OS = ABORT ABORT ABORT ABORT. Wasn't the last "modernization" the "everything's a tablet" BS in Windows 8?
With AI = GTFO. It's an operating system. If it needs AI to access files, fire up a network stack and get the hell out of the way? You failed.
Faster updates = NOW WE CAN RESET ALL YOUR PREFERENCES BEFORE YOU EVEN FINISH SAVING THEM!
And then the summary makes the nightmare much more terrifying for somebody that likes an OS to just be an OS and stay out of the way of the real work.
What's the real goal with Windows? It's clearly not meant to be an operating system in the traditional sense any longer. And while I get that they want to push their subscription forever bullshit on everybody, most of this doesn't even have anything to do with that. It's once again mostly about locking the end-user out of control, forcing more updates, and throwing a few buzzwords in just for good measure, whether those buzzwords are labels for tech that's ready for prime-time or alpha/beta software that the entire world gets to test for them.
I also don't get pushing the idea that every OS needs to be like an iPad OS. That's a way to retain power users and developers. "We'll lock you out of doing anything powerful, for your own safety." The levels of WTF in this announcement can't be overstated.
-
... is needed so that there's something "smart enough" to handle the rapid updates.
Something "intelligent" has to handle updates, because users are too stupid to. Like users that install this new system.
-
If you talk out of both sides of your mouth does it look like a figure 8?
All the "tech leaders" say that AI progress keeps them up at night, then they go to work and add vision, hearing, robots, etc. to the AI. So, now, Microsoft is going to add a bunch of AI in the OS. Before long, during the day at work, they will say it only makes sense for all the OS installations to talk to each other and help humanity solve difficult problems, but after work, they do interviews and say that AI is scaring them to-
Let's be honest though. Deep down. Way deep down in our blackened coding hearts, didn't we all know Microsoft would be the cause of the ultimate failure of humanity?
-
-
-
Updates are an issue. I could install Linux in the time it takes Windows to apply updates. How Windows makes an SSD feel like a 5400 rpm drive I’ll never know.
-
Indeed. I think they have specific "minimum install" times the developers have to meet. The observable behavior is so bad that mere, old-fashioned incompetence cannot explain it anymore. This has to be by intent.
-
-
> That's a way to retain power users and developers.
Power users and developers are a measurement error in the number of users. The days of developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers are gone.
-
"Wasn't the last "modernization" the "everything's a tablet" BS in Windows 8?"
Heavens no! The last modernization was rounded corners in Windows 11.
-
MacOS 7.5.3 under Basilisk][. I can get all the rounded corners I want. I can use Resedit to make all my applications have round corners.
And the applications are still good enough for typical office work and it's a joy that it only does what I need it to do without "assistants", "updates", and other crap to get in the way.
People need to get an emulator and fire up an OS from 20 or 30 years ago just to try it. You will be amazed at just how damn pleasant they are to use compared to the ones today.
The simple
-
-
Seriously, if this is it, then it's done.
Looks like Linux is about to take over. lol wtF.......
-
-
If the choice is yours, there are better options.
-
Hopefully, the hardware vendors don't play along and make it difficult/impossible to repurpose "windows laptops" by completely paving over the storage an installing something more functional that will be supported for a longer time without excreting a subscription payment. I do like the idea of periodically getting new/shiny gear with additional features I may want if the factory-installed OS is disposable.
-
You will be hoping for a long time. That won't force anyone to buy a new system. Why only get sub fee when you can collect hardware margins as well.
-
-
If you want to make Windows a real contender for a secure OS, then introduce Qubes OS style VM / Containers, to allow someone to fully isolate and restrict applications from each other. There is no reason that an email client, Outlook, Thunderbird, GMail, should talk to the browser where you host your Social Media (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, etc). That browser shouldn't talk to the browser you host your work services, Azure, AWS, Digital Ocean, and that browser shouldn't talk to the one which hosts your personal life.
If Microsoft built in hard isolation, to the point that “accidents” like Session Hijacking were essentially impossible – Linus Tech Tips – (forgoing being careless and stupid), they might become an attractive platform. I'll ignore that “locking parts of the OS” is scary from a control standpoint, because even if they go ahead with that, without isolation, what security minded power user is going to care?
Use a system like Qubes OS for a week or month, and you'll realize it's benefits. Yes, it's a hog on system resources, but that massive increase in resources gives a massive payback in security, one that is justified. -
I just finished getting all my drivers updated to keep windows 11 happy and I want to do some more troubleshooting and waiting on vendors!
Maybe 12 would suck less than 11? Maybe it wouldn't involve more privacy invasion than 11? probably no forward progress but maybe it will not be worse... and the other bits get better?
So now we get a faster update cycle?! Well, I shouldn't socializing or resting so much anyway I need more time working on incompatibilities, conflicts, 3rd party updates... and now likely d
-
Wait until that nice big thunderstorm rolls in and you can't unplug your PC because Windows is doing an hour plus automatic update for the millionth time.
-
-
Who wants faster updates? I want no updates. I want shit to work without updates. I don't update any of my devices automatically. I update them once a month, or as needed/desired. I certainly don't let big data update whenever the fuck they want.
These posts are just another reminder I need to spend more time in my linux desktop to get myself off the comfort of windows.
-
Mod parent sadly insightful.
-
-
AI capabilities? What about blockchain? I just got my blockchain certification! Isn't blockchain still the new shiny?
-
Sorry! But if you start now, you'll be able to get your AI certification just in time for that to collapse!
-
Just GPG sign your Git commits. Instant blockchain developer.
-
Get with the program. Blockchain was last months marketdroid buzzword BS. AI is where it's at now, and its only 2 letters - much easier for the plebs to spell!
-
I'm hoping that the month after next, the buzzword will be down to 0 letters.
-
-
-
This is completely the wrong direction. None of this is what they need to do.
Windows doesn't need *faster* updates, for example. It needs less intrusive updates, updates that don't constantly screw with the user's ability to, you know, use the computer. It doesn't need to be easier for Microsoft to customize for different form factors, it just needs to be easier for the user to customize to meet the user's needs. Instead of read-only partitions that are inaccessible to the user, what it actually needs i-
Indeed. Or in other words, Windows needs to finally be brought up to the state-of-the-art in OS design and implementation and needs to stop lagging 20 years behind and being an insecure, slow, bloated mess.
But MS is not really interested in improving anything. All they care about is money. The only reason for Win12 is to get more money and hence they simulate innovation and pretend they are improving some things, when in actual reality they are making things even worse. Instead of at least trying to remove
-
-
Guessing this will allow them to easily split things up and offer parts as "extras" and/or by subscriptions -- like automakers are doing. For example, basic mouse functionality will be included in the Core, but the scroll-wheel only as a paid subscription -- you know, in case you don't need it every month.
-
I don't need a virtual assistant, no matter what you call it and no matter how well you claim it can understand me.
HAL and Clippy, everything that is old is new again.
-
Ah, they are back to thinking that people want Windows but don't care about running Windows applications, which is pretty much the *only* thing Windows has going for it.
Though there is more to it, *giving* away the OS would be a required part of that. While some use cases like the disposable locked down behavior of ChromeOS, device vendors largely latched onto it as a path to reduce software cost. This path of trying to compete with ChromeOS leaves little room for differentiation. "OS that just runs a web
-
A correctly laid out AI would be a great upgrade . ..
But any AI reporting back to Microsoft or any other organization is an obscenely hard "HELL NO!"
I DO NOT want to log into a Microsoft account to use the computer. They don't have any of my personal interests at heart. I want to log into a secure completely locally controlled account and that won't change.
And while they are at it: There is no reason to change features in the middle of a version. And there is no reason they need to force a billion+ peo -
Works fabulously well and runs every Steam game I have tried so far, not to mention dosbox and emulators etc
-
Microsoft has been flip-flopping on embedded for 30 years.
They had Windows CE, which was a severely cut-down Windows. They turned that into Windows phone then abandoned it.
For Windows XP and 7, they had "Windows Embedded Standard" which shipped with an "Image Configuration Editor" which let you remove large swaths of the system like printing, networking, audio, fonts. You could drill-down and remove things selectively. It could run in a read-only mode too. The problem is that you might turn on one featu
-
Windows CE was its own beast, and it had more features than Windows 9x did. It wasn't cut-down from anything.
-
-
-
It was a direct lie. You know, the level of honesty and integrity you should have come to expect from MS. The only reason they lied about it is because they wanted more win10 adoption, but convincing people that this would be the last MS "OS" upgrade shitshow. It was pretty clear back then that it would not be.
-
-
I still have a trauma from Clippy. Please, please, don't put it in control of my OS.
-
We're not only putting Clippy in charge of your OS... we are also putting Clippy in charge of your porn! "Looks like you're trying to wank... How can I help?"
-
-
I will skip Windows 12 as I skipped Windows 11.
Putting my hopes in for Windows 13 Witchcraft/Demon Edition.
-
Actually, Microsoft has 2 different teams doing Windows development... meaning every other release is a piece of crap. If Windows 10 was okay, then Windows 12 should be too.
-
Is that why they skipped Windows 9 and went from 8 to 10?
-
-
-
-
Pretty sure they are too busy RAMMING their customers.
-
-
Coming soon to a movie theater near you!
-
How can a 21st-Century OS need an amateur's app ( Everything ) to search files fast and have no way of searching file metadata/contents fast ?
Windows doesn't need tabs in File Explorer / a shifted Task Bar / a new Night Mode.
Windows needs a new file system. -
This will end poorly.
-
Maybe Microsoft could use AI to correctly the KEYBOARD to US layout on my Microsoft Laptop and stop making my life a living hell.
Recommend
About Joyk
Aggregate valuable and interesting links.
Joyk means Joy of geeK