Talk me down from the ledge.
I've been considering the 16" MBP simply because, my 14" MBP's display is a scosh too small. I'm more of a 15" laptop guy and while the 14" is fantastic, I think the 16" would be a better fit

Ok, preamble is over and I've started researching prices and I stumbled up on this; I'm gonna be honest, that twelve hundred dollar price tag cause me to do the typical cartoon double take.

Here's what I'm wrestling with:
What I don't like about about intel MBPS (post 2015 models)
Keyboard - butterfly keyboard is prone to failure - not sure how in 2022 buying a refurb from amazon, how that fits in with apple's repair program.
touchbar, not a fan, but this option is not a show stopper.
Battery life - not as good as the M1 MBP
heat/performance. Goes hand in hand, since one generates the other.

What I do like about this model
Price
Intel processor - simplifies my life quite a bit given I have needs that require the use of windows
Price
Oh did I mentioned the price

mate i got a 16inch i9 64gb 1tb 5500m 8gb ac+ for sale for not much more, that is not a good deal lol

I have a 2019 16" MBP. It does get hot easily and the battery isn't great. I've been jealous of my wife's M1 14" MBP. Looking to get rid of my Intel for an M1 or M2...

Butterfly Keyboard enough said, if it fails will cost half the asking price to repair with no guarantee it won't repeat Just cool your heels and wait on a good deal for an M1 16".

Only thing I see of value is two more inches & running Windows if you really need the OS, rest is downgrade and you'll also take a hit on the 14" M1.

Q-6

Queen6 said:

Butterfly Keyboard enough said, if it fails will cost half the asking price to repair with no guarantee it won't repeat Just cool your heels and wait on a good deal for an M1 16".

Only thing I see of value is two more inches & running Windows if you really need the OS, rest is downgrade and you'll also take a hit on the 14" M1.

Q-6

16inch doesn't have butterfly keyboard.

ilikewhey said:

16inch doesn't have butterfly keyboard.

Thx, I stand corrected then which makes the deal a lot more palatable.

Q-6

ilikewhey said:

mate i got a 16inch i9 64gb 1tb 5500m 8gb ac+ for sale for not much more, that is not a good deal lol

Good to know, being out of the loop for refurb/used markets the 1200 dollar price tag looked like a good deal

ejin222 said:

Looking to get rid of my Intel for an M1 or M2...

Yeah, that's the thing holding me back - am I being penny wise and pound foolish, i.e., saving some money but in the end painting myself in a corner?

I can't get past the "Amazon Renewed". What, they wiped it with a damp rag vs a dry one before chucking it in a box?

posguy99 said:

I can't get past the "Amazon Renewed". What, they wiped it with a damp rag vs a dry one before chucking it in a box?

LOL, yeah they hit the laptop with compressed air 😄

I suspect that unlike apple, I'd not have much of warranty which I forgot to put into my list

I went from an 2020 i7 modal to a m1 modal, trust me you will regret buying that intel

This thread really puts into perspective how crappy those machines actually were, they had a lot of deliberate and avoidable flaws like the illogical GPU switching, subpar thermals and useless touch bar (the 2019 16" doesn't have butterflies though).
It's honestly boggling that we were forced to put up with this kind of absurdity.
If those were good machines in their own right, they would have kept their value much better than they did, like the 2015 ones, that still were in demand even though they were technically obsolete.

maflynn said:

Here's what I'm wrestling with:
What I don't like about about intel MBPS (post 2015 models)

I wouldn't buy it because it's an Intel - it won't be long before Apple discontinues support for the Intel Macs

I’d say hold off — scale your screen on your 14” to make everything smaller, giving it the appearance of having a larger screen.

Then, wait until the 16” M1 goes on sale further when the new ones inevitably come out in the near future. While it doesn’t run Windows, and I’m not sure what your needs are, there’s always Parallels which is a viable option.

Having switched from an Intel iMac and MacBook Pro to an M1 iMac and 16” Pro, I can’t imagine going back. Even simple web browsing on the old Intel MPB seems archaic compared to the M series lol although that’s just my personal preference.

I also wouldn’t trust Amazon refurb with Apple products, but again that’s my personal opinion

maflynn said:

Yeah, that's the thing holding me back - am I being penny wise and pound foolish, i.e., saving some money but in the end painting myself in a corner?

Basically yes...

posguy99 said:

I can't get past the "Amazon Renewed". What, they wiped it with a damp rag vs a dry one before chucking it in a box?

I would assume by a certified Apple reseller as that's how Apple goes and if direct from Amazon should be reputable. Kind of a roll of the dice, could just be an open box or it could have been a major repair.

Q-6

Misheemee said:

I wouldn't buy it because it's an Intel - it won't be long before Apple discontinues support for the Intel Macs

I think there is already some signs of this. Apple is all about the $$$ these days and supporting the Intel Mac's longterm has its costs.

Q-6

Queen6 said:

I think there is already some signs of this. Apple is all about the $$$ these days and supporting the Intel Mac's longterm has its costs.

Q-6

This isn’t a cash grab. It took them over a decade to R&D Apple Silicon. Their first gen Apple Silicon Macs were surprisingly stellar, not to mention successful, especially for mass market computers. The ones that been released since are no-brainer upgrades over their Intel counterparts. Why NOT accelerate their plans??

If anything this is a response to being vindicated by their customer base. Would you rather they make more computers people don’t like or hire more Windows devs just to cater to the x86 crowd? Doesn’t make financial sense in a recession, especially because they still have Intel against the ropes.

I went with a Refurb 16" Intel MPB from , 64gb Ram 2.4GHz higher end graphics, Zero Regrets flawless.

maflynn said:

Keyboard - butterfly keyboard is prone to failure - not sure how in 2022 buying a refurb from amazon, how that fits in with apple's repair program.

The 16” (both Intel and Apple) doesn’t have a Butterfly keyboard.

Mr. Awesome said:

The 16” (both Intel and Apple) doesn’t have a Butterfly keyboard.

Really? I didn't know that - thanks for the clarification.

maflynn said:

LOL, yeah they hit the laptop with compressed air 😄

I suspect that unlike apple, I'd not have much of warranty which I forgot to put into my list

According to amazon.com, "renewed" has a 90 day warranty. Kinda says it all.

That price sure is tempting, and you do seem to have a legit use case for Intel. Unfortunately, the pros end here imo.

- It's a 3 year old design with an old architecture. There is going to be a slow but steady pressure from Apple to cut support for Intel in macOS in the coming years.
- New machines (alternatively, killer deals on the current models) are around the corner.
- Amazon refurbished is a very different beast from Apple refurbished. The latter is a rock-solid option, machines look and behave as new and you get the standard warranty on top of that. None of this is guaranteed with Amazon.
- If you are used to the speed, the battery life, and the cool & quiet operation of the M1, you will notice the downgrade

If size (16" vs 14") is the main driver for your decision to buy another machine but overall what you have is working well for you, wait.

maflynn said:

Talk me down from the ledge.
I've been considering the 16" MBP simply because, my 14" MBP's display is a scosh too small. I'm more of a 15" laptop guy and while the 14" is fantastic, I think the 16" would be a better fit

Ok, preamble is over and I've started researching prices and I stumbled up on this;
View attachment 2112407

I'm gonna be honest, that twelve hundred dollar price tag cause me to do the typical cartoon double take.

Here's what I'm wrestling with:
What I don't like about about intel MBPS (post 2015 models)
Keyboard - butterfly keyboard is prone to failure - not sure how in 2022 buying a refurb from amazon, how that fits in with apple's repair program.
touchbar, not a fan, but this option is not a show stopper.
Battery life - not as good as the M1 MBP
heat/performance. Goes hand in hand, since one generates the other.

What I do like about this model
Price
Intel processor - simplifies my life quite a bit given I have needs that require the use of windows
Price
Oh did I mentioned the price

Click to expand...

I had that model. I was happy to get rid of it. It ran hot and the fans were running loudly on relatively low workloads.

I was going to recommend the Refurbished pages on Apple.com but … yikes, the M1 Macs are still very expensive. I got mine there (2019 Intel) about 2 years ago when it was “only” $2100, and I‘ve been very content with the machine. No problems like many others report on these forums, however, I can notice the not amazing battery at least compared to the M1 machines, 20-hour battery is amazing to me. Too bad their current 16” M1 models are minimum $2500, 2600 at the moment. Perhaps that will change (?) but I wouldn’t hold my breath…

About the original post / dilemma, it’s a hard decision, you could get that $1200 “deal” and be happy, or you could find any number of things go amiss with it like battery or whatever else. I would personally almost buy from non-Apple parties, not because of any loyalty to the company but it just makes things so much easier for me re: warranty, taking it in for service, etc. But it seems many people do buy from Amazon and other places with fairly good success from my limited knowledge of that.

Having experienced the larger screen for the first time with this machine myself, I won’t be going back to smaller any time soon, and since you are familiar with the 15” size, you’re probably well aware of how nice it is to use on a daily basis, so I guess it comes down to your budget and whether that larger-screen luxury is worth the substantial cost.

Good luck, keep us posted about your journey if you do get one.

I got a few i9's and they're all great. Just bought a fully maxed out 2019 brand new. & paid one low price, through the nose. $3000 for a pre-owned puter seems pretty outrageous, but this thing actually works as a desktop replacement for a professional cad system, and it's as futureproofed as an Apple will get. The only crap thing about them is that they won't run Mojave, so you're stuck with Big Sewer or newer, meaning networking is up & down, screen sharing never works, etc, the nice Wacom Intuos 3's (with the good mice) won't work, all the usual basic stuff Apple broke and never fixed. Part of their charm or something. Since we run Windows on them I don't care that much, the mac side is only for personal use anyway. ...it runs Win10 lickety split.

spiderman0616 said:

This isn’t a cash grab. It took them over a decade to R&D Apple Silicon. Their first gen Apple Silicon Macs were surprisingly stellar, not to mention successful, especially for mass market computers. The ones that been released since are no-brainer upgrades over their Intel counterparts. Why NOT accelerate their plans??

If anything this is a response to being vindicated by their customer base. Would you rather they make more computers people don’t like or hire more Windows devs just to cater to the x86 crowd? Doesn’t make financial sense in a recession, especially because they still have Intel against the ropes.

Never said it was, it just makes better sense for Apple to drop Intel soon as it can. From a business perspective long term support of the Intel platform is just a burden and Apple rarely looks back...

Q-6