AT&T Workers Fight Return To Office Push: 'We Can Do the Same Job From Home'
source link: https://slashdot.org/story/22/08/15/2133211/att-workers-fight-return-to-office-push-we-can-do-the-same-job-from-home
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AT&T Workers Fight Return To Office Push: 'We Can Do the Same Job From Home'
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Williams criticized the pushback to return to the office given AT&T is a communications company with the technology and resources to make working from home a seamless option. "Our revenue has increased over the last two years while we were working from home. Our job descriptions state we are capable of working with little to minimum management and that's what we've been doing," she said. She also argued it was unfair how the push to return workers to the office has been enforced, with some departments being brought back while others are still working from home. "We don't feel like anybody's health is greater than any others. Because everybody has their own health issues, or they may have family members that have health issues that they have to return home to," she added. [...] A spokesperson for AT&T did not provide data on how many workers at the company are still working from home, but claimed it was never the company's intention to make working from home indefinite. "The health and safety of our employees continues to be our priority," said the spokesperson in an email. "As we have throughout the pandemic, we adhere to guidance from the medical community, including implementing safety protocols to help protect our employees' wellbeing. And now that we are a largely vaccinated workforce, we believe it's safe for employees to return to the workplace. We do our best work when we're together."
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Pretty simple: People that can have this protection should have it. Or are you advocating that just because there are some risky jobs, nobody deserves a safe job? That would be really, really stupid, also because it does not make the ones with risky jobs one bit saver. It just makes the overall situation a lot worse.
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Some jobs are risky, dirty, or difficult. So they pay more.
So if you want a job that is safe, clean, and easy, you should expect to be paid less.
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Nobody gives a shit if your job is dirty, smelly, dangerous or difficult. What it boils down to in a capitalist world is supply and demand. Can you find someone doing that job for cheaper? Great, then replace me.
If you can't, cough up the dough.
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100% this. I set the terms for my employment. Some employers walk away, others accept it. To date I've never been unemployed. Capitalism seems just fine with me working on my own terms.
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Sure, from now on everyone must do night shifts or 12 hour shifts, and must do them either in very thick and heavy fire retardant clothing or in super expensive suits, whichever is the most intrusive for that person, cause really why should anyone be shielded from these adversities.
This is the dumbest fucking argument ever. Life isn't fair, not everyone has to be brought down to the exact same working conditions. Those conditions are job dependent. Do you think the people that have to go to a place of work
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To be needlessly pedantic, life is a sequence of events that span your birth to your death, and thus is incapable of being fair or unfair.
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Tell me, when did "fair" enter the job market? Is it "fair" that I make about 5 times that of guy breaking his back laying bricks by sitting in a comfy chair? Is it "fair" that some CEO makes 100 times more than that guy sitting around having "visions"?
"Fair" doesn't apply. We're talking work, not sports.
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I think you've answered your own question. Different jobs have different risk profiles, a soldier might get sent into combat and be shot at by enemies wanting to kill him, whereas most other jobs don't involve going face to face with armed adversaries trying to kill you.
Forcing someone to waste time and money travelling to a place they don't need to be is just stupid, and utterly irresponsible given the environmental impact. Everyone who can work remotely should be given the opportunity to do so, while thos
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This is the great United States of America. We live under constant threat from armed adversaries trying to kill us because... Freedom!
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What socialistic crap is this? Different work has different needs. Oh and they pay different based a number of factors. Maybe you have missed that part.
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Hallucinogens?:-D
I mean, very little in that post had any resemblance to reality. Not the anti-mask rant, not the anti-distancing rant, not the... okay, so the plastic shields probably are mostly useless, so I guess that's one valid point out of half a dozen....
The claim about the productivity loss is also crap. For the most part, businesses that moved to working from home saw a slight drop in productivity at first, while they got used to it, but then actually saw productivity gains, on average, largely
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The facts don't really back you up on that one. Masks are effective at reducing the spread of the virus which was very important when we didn't have a vaccine or effective treatments. The distancing and sanitizing was more before it was known how it spread (a good idea to be cautious).
But I guess a few businesses getting a slightly better bottom line is more important than millions of deaths.
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Translation: "No fair! I had to commute all day and sit in a sweaty office with people who don't shower, why should others have it better than me just because there's no reason anymore to stuff them into a noisy office?"
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It's about being able to force your workers into being in the same place all at once so your water cooler talk can suddenly become inspirational to someone or others can continually interrupt your productivity. Those who don't want to travel to work each day can find another job. Many companies relish the opportunity to have employees voluntarily quit with so simple an ask, so they can hire replacements at lower cost or simply spread out the work.
Also, I bet all those bean counters and c-level folks hate seeing all that empty office space they paid for.
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When did you work for ATT? I did. They already had a ton of communications from people working from home when I was on their lightspeed project. There were so many fuckups and delays from people who were never able to communicate directly. And I don't fucking care what any people who want to argue against me on it, you are wrong. With huge organizations, it is too easy for the left hand to not know what the right hand is doing, and this is minimized when workers are in closer proximity. Information density
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I did. They already had a ton of communications from people working from home when I was on their lightspeed project. There were so many fuckups and delays from people who were never able to communicate directly.
Really? You're going to reference a 15+ year old project as a legitimate reason to not have remote work here in 2022? Sure, back in your day, it probably was a hassle with a lot of the remote employees. However, the infrastructure for working from home for most types of jobs was ass-tier at best. Broadband is more prominent and faster now. Cell phones are practically ubiquitous and can do PC level tasks that were definitely not doable back then.
Information density is much higher, and the ability for information to filter 'organically' from person to person who are in close proximity is also higher.
Bullshit and not a true statement. Information density, in either setting, is exactly as low or high as the company wants it to be. You can be, and I have been, in offices that have little to no person-to-person, work-related information density. Likewise, a completely remote company, can have very high information density, that is even easier to access then "talking to Greg, who is currently out at lunch and will be back in an hour". Only lazy morons would claim that it would be impossible to have equally high information density, if not higher, with remote workers nowadays.
They want to control what gets done, how it is done, and ability to track it.
Yeah, and the ability to do all of that remotely exists for most jobs. That's the whole point. If it CAN be done remotely just as well as in-office, then why is it such a problem to let them stay there? Especially, when by the company's own metrics, they did BETTER (both the person and the company). None of your argument holds ANY water whatsoever.
You want to know why there were so many fuckups on that project? It had nothing to do with the remote workers. AT&T management was absolute shit at the time at every single level. They mismanaged the fuck out of it. And if you were management level on the project, then you were part of the problem and not the remote employees. If you weren't management on it, then your level of first-hand, low-level information is absolutely useless.
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With huge organizations, it is too easy for the left hand to not know what the right hand is doing, and this is minimized when workers are in closer proximity
I have worked for a large telco before, what you say goes if people are in the office or not.
I fact I would state that categorically clarity of communications across a larger group is improved by teams using something like Slack, because everyone can see, and refer back to, communications there.
Your dream is some one off "organic" meeting that no-one
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Exactly this.
And this.
Having a written record is key, no more people who weren't listening or missed the key points, no more people who got corrupted second hand information, no more people who forgot what they heard in the meeting, no more arguing and misunderstanding about what was said or meant. It's all there in black and white.And this is what some people absolutely hate, because everyone makes mistakes but when it's written down you can't try to cover it up later - you have to own your mistakes.
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Thanks for understanding what I was saying here, and it's a good point that some people may not like it because they thrive in an environment where nothing is clear or permanently set in history.
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My company brought us back in a hybrid mode, in part citing some tale about magical meetings in the hallway where people spontaneously stop and chat about all the work related stuff they are doing, and solutions result. Meanwhile, major projects got along just fine during the pandemic full remote time. My suspicion is that the managers are so in favor of the 'hallway meeting' model because that is the way *they* work. The hands-on people all seem to have a different view.
I think there is some case to be m-
Yeah getting interrupted constantly by idiots in the hallway is such a plus. More like, "we don't want to pay for a decent staff, so we need to trap you in a room with special needs people we bought at a discount so you can baby them into productivity". Sorry, not doing that anymore. I'll sooner abandon my career than go back to the office/adult daycare
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A bean counter is looking to replace you. Nobody has time for water cooler talk anymore except for a few of the older well connected employees or on their way to retirement and company doesn't see fit to bother laying them off.
This is about property values. Value of commercial real estate has been plummeting. Folks don't seem to understand that the people who make the decisions about your life I'll sit on each other's board of directors and all have investments in commercial real estate. When people talk about the ruling class this is what they mean. It's a web of interconnected special interests-
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Simple: If there's empty office buildings, your investors and shareholders will want to know from you why the hell your company still pays rent for buildings that are essentially useless and a waste of corporate money, i.e. money they could have been paid instead.
If you have an investment in those real estates (and a lot of them do because they "knew" 5 years ago that a certain company will have to rent these buildings forever and ever), you don't want that to happen.
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I noticed the casual talk at the coffee machine often results in the best ideas, since you meet people from all departments. I also noticed that breakthroughs for projects often happen during lunchbreaks. That said, I do like to work from home for at least one day. I actually disconnect as much as possible then to do the stuff that requires patience, focus, and reflection. It also allows my team to think for themselves and learn/try out stuff. Some give me headache the next day, some prove me wrong, sometim
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That and the management is frustrated that they can't reach things on the high shelves with those stubby little dinosaur arms and they're taking it out on the small mammals.
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You DO NOT want your workers to quit "voluntarily" when you want to get rid of some of the slack. Because the slack is what stays. Think about it: Who quits? Those that can (and do) get other jobs. Those that not only have the energy and drive to shop around for another job but who also have the qualifications, skills and enthusiasm to find other jobs.
What stays is the slackers, the people who already internally surrendered and the ones who were wrongfully promoted to a job they can't do and know they can't
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If you don't like their way of doing business, by being in the office, then QUIT and go to work for someone who will let you work from home. It's not YOUR company, YOU don't get to set the rules. One of two things will happen. 1. The company will change their policy, if they cannot find enough people to work from the office. 2. The company will find enough peope to work at the office, and it will continue on.
Unless a union gets involved, I see option 2 working. People like staying home and working, but I
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If you don't like their way of doing business, by being in the office, then QUIT and go to work for someone who will let you work from home. It's not YOUR company, YOU don't get to set the rules.
Found the Agile-certified, 6-Sigma, HCISPP mid-level manager
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I think there are a few in here. Actual skills outdated or never existed, but they've found a niche by watching when you take a bathroom break.
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I tend to call them "paid pervs".
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If you don't like their way of doing business, by being in the office, then QUIT and go to work for someone who will let you work from home.
Or, let's just think about this a moment, keep the job while you negotiate being able to work from home, and then quit if negotiations fail, preferably after you've found work for someone who will let you work from home. Kind of like these workers are doing now.
I know, as a manager it's such a hassle to be asked to negotiate with your employees, rather than simply tel
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Found the shitty manager/owner that definitely does not practice what they preach, and then all the employees quit.
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Not all of them. Only the ones that can find another job and have enough drive and energy left to do it. He does retain the slackers, the unqualified and the ones who already internally quit, i.e. the ones that can't find another job or simply stopped caring where they drag their corpse every day.
You know, those valuable workers you really, really want to retain...
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You don't want that. Because all you will have left is only the people who can't get a job somewhere else.
People want quality of life these days. I noticed some time ago that they even can't pay me less than I need to live, so I basically cost now about 50% of what I could ask for. The other 50% is "my way or the highway", and, lo and behold, companies are quite willing to jump a few hoops to save 6 figures a year.
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by Aighearach ( 97333 ) on Monday August 15, 2022 @07:00PM (#62792267)
Some of the reasons they cite are good, but some, such as childcare costs, are counter-productive to winning the support of their employers, even if they're good arguments to drum up public support.
Employers don't want to pay employees to take care of their own children during work hours.
A lot of these jobs can be done just well from home, but it sounds like the employees are being a little too honest about the reasons. A winning strategy would need to utilize effective tactics. You're not going to persuade management to change their person views of these decision by making heartfelt, humanist arguments about employee well-being.That's only going to result in an HR-style response of documenting steps taken to ensure employee well-being. What they should be doing is making the strongest case that they're more effective workers when they work from home, and focusing only on that. Instead, it seems they have lawyers in charge of the response, throwing everything at the wall to see if anything will stick. But here, everything that doesn't stick is accidental support for the counter-argument.
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Employees with young children spend a not inconsiderable amount of their office time not working, dealing with the hassles of remotely organising the picking up and dropping off of children in daycares and schools and dealing with common but unpredictable minor emergencies. Trying to get an uninterrupted 9-5 for a full 5 days out of such an employee is a laughable pipe dream. By letting them work from home, even part time, sure they are "wasting" company time dealing with their sprogs on the clock, but gene
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"We're raping some of our employees quite literally. If they're safe at home it makes this much more difficult to get away with. We can't have that."
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I don't think you realize how weird it's gotten at AT&T lately.
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Take note that the parent post claims that businesses are "RAPING EMPLOYEES QUITE LITERALLY" yet isn't marked Flamebait or Troll. Apparently moderation is now reserved to cancel disfavored points of view, not to weed out egregious comments. You can talk trash all day on slashdot, and as long as it's the right kind of trash, no problemo. Just take a look down feed.
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ongoing concerns over exposure to COVID-19 variants and now monkeybox
You know, if there are giant gay orgies where you work, you do not have to partake. And I assume they are in a meeting room somewhere where you don't have to see them.
Because otherwise I don't see how you are catching the 'box, as the cool kids call it, since 95% of of the people (and dogs) [nbcnews.com] that catch it are sleeping with gay men.
That said I am fully sympathetic otherwise with people who don't want to come in because of commutes, and do not need to because they can fully work from home.
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Some still call it "cubicle".
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If the company thinks on-site is worth more, then pay more for on-site days.
I do think it's realistic to require coming in 2 days a week for at least bonding reasons, but beyond that is usually diminishing returns. If they really want 3+, then just pay a bonus for such days. Seems simple, what am I missing?
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Bonding reasons? I hate humans. With a passion. I actually started liking some of the people I have to communicate on a daily base during the lockdown phases because I not only didn't have to see them but I could also turn them off when they got annoying (don't try that in real life, my lawyer said it's illegal).
If anything, having to see their mug twice a week makes me hate them again.
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Having 2 days a week eliminates many of the benefits of working from home at all...
You still need to live within commuting distance, you still need your transportation available, or if you're using public transport you will have to pay more for the 2 days as there's usually discounts for weekly/monthly tickets.Work from home full time, sell your car, sell your expensive house in the city and move to a small town where you can get a much nicer house for half the price and walk to local establishments, anythi
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Certainly, ATT workers do not need an office to tell you no, to be unhelpful, and generally make you wish ATT did not exist. This can definitely be accomplished from anywhere.
If ATT actually cared about its customers then forcing employees to the office wouldn't be on their radar.
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I didn't think ATT even had employees in this country any more. Certainly when you call them on the phone for service you get routed to another country. I had to call back three times before I could get someone that I could actually hear between their complete non-grasp on English and the garbage quality of the connection. Their whole job is communications and they are completely inept at it.
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They're worried about acquiring monkeypox? Are these folks having anal sex while at work? Or sex at all while at work, because that's how you get monkeypox.
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My thoughts exactly haha!
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No it's not.What ever gave you that idea? (no, don't tell us, it' probably from some depressingly stupid echo chamber where you go for your "truth". please just stay there...)
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Yes, that is the primary way monkeypox spreads. Through direct, close, personal contact [cdc.gov] (i.e. sex). Potentially, if someone who was infected sneezed and some droplets got on you [uchealth.org], there might be a possibility of you contracting it.
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The primary way you have direct, close, personal contact is through anal sex? Speak for yourself, dude...
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I'm sure glad that's not an easy way for infections to spread in a workplace.
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No it's not....from some depressingly stupid echo chamber
What kind of garbage media are you reading you didn't know? It's in pretty much every major media outlet that 95% of the people contracting monkeypox are men having unprotected sex with other men.
Seriously you need to re-think who is in the echo chamber if you did not know this widely distributed and well documented fact for a virus of concern.
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Well... why do you go to the office? There ain't really any other reason anymore.
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And for a change they can suck my cock.
Figuratively only, of course. I don't even want personal contact with them, let alone that intimate one.
Payback's a bitch, and those last 2 years were the BEST in my lifetime. If only to see them suffer for a change.
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Great, that's how you get the monkeypox.
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That's an interesting insight. (Un)fairly generalized, yet I'm sure it rings true in many places. Nonetheless, you sound like the victim of a bully. Eat some 'shrooms and get yourself some perspective. They can dramatically increase your mental fortitude, and are loads of fun too.
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There was a clip passed around of a zoom/teams meeting from some google-like org where all the 20-somethings began by talking about the "difficulties" and "stresses" they face due to isolation. All managers and team leaders, no implementers. These were not people coping well with lockdowns. Given that many introverts have suffered death by a thousand cuts from all of the forced interaction that seems to come from institutional extroverts from school on up all done for "their own good" it's understandable th
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Teh monkeys get out of that box and there will be hell to pay.
Why is AT&T leaving boxes of monkeys around in the workplace in the first place ?!
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Monkeybox? You kids and your fancy words for everything. We old folks called them cubicles.
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It's a simple case of all the middle-level managers realising that teams don't need them to do the job, and they are panicking.
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Who gave the worthless middle manager mod points? You're wasting valuable resources on space occupiers.
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A company willing to risk losing many of its best staff - who will be the ones to leave if this is enforced against their will - is going to damage itself. The only question is by how much.
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Their best staff is already back in the office or on to better jobs..
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Their best staff is probably still there, but they are the ones that can easiest bail if you try to shove them back into the chicken coop. Good people are hunted down by headhunters, and if you try to force them into something they don't like, them flipping you off on the way out is all you get.
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It was time last year when AT&T said ‘White People, You are the Problem’
https://news.yahoo.com/t-emplo... [yahoo.com] -
The only question is why we continue to let the career criminals run AT&T when they have already literally stolen hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer money when they were handed it to build out the last mile, and didn't.
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"And now that we are a largely vaccinated workforce, we believe it's safe for employees to return to the workplace. We do our best work when we're together."
Fuck off, you pukebag. We're not going back to the office.
*I* do *MY* best work when I'm well rested and not being forced to commute to a place I don't need or want to be.
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I bet it was said by some upper-level manager who never spent a day working in close contact with any of the people he now expects to get back to the chicken coop. Sorry, open-floor office.
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Until the C-Levels realize that middle management is useless and got fired.
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The typical PHB-style management response to "we can do the same job from home" would be then someone in India can also do your job from their home.
My response was, "you are welcomed to try". Not to mention the fact that, somehow, "need to come to office to collaborate" was never a consideration in the last 20 years when loads of office jobs were being outsourced to India, NOW you try to tell me that was important? Fxxk off!
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If a manager dangled the threat of outsourcing my job to "incentivise" me to return to the office, my resignation would be there within the hour. You do not threaten me. I say this as a person who has returned to the office, because there are things that I need to do here. I'm a big enough boy that I can see what work needs doing and how it should be done and what needs collaboration and what desperately needs less collaboration. If you feel you need to bully and cajole, I feel the need to distance myself f
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