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Ask HN: Advice on bringing community broadband to Los Alamos?

 3 years ago
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Ask HN: Advice on bringing community broadband to Los Alamos? Ask HN: Advice on bringing community broadband to Los Alamos? 88 points by fraserphysics 4 hours ago | hide | past | favorite | 27 comments For a decade I have been advocating for the government of Los Alamos County in New Mexico to help with county wide broadband. The coincidence of my renewed effort, the COVID-19 pandemic, and a sympathetic County Council is yielding progress. At the direction of the County Council, the County staff has a job posting for a Broadband Manager. (See the posting at https://selfservice.losalamosnm.us/ess/employmentopportuniti...) The staff is posting the opening for a second time because the first time, only one applicant met even the minimum qualifications.

My questions for Hacker News are:

1. Does the posting look realistic?

2. Does it describe someone who could get a community broadband network built?

3. How can the County get qualified people to apply?

I've been pushing on this issue since 2011. I went so far as serving on the County Board of Public Utilities and becoming its Chair in 2015. Finding that the Board had no authority over the issue, I turned to political organizing and set up the website blabnow.blog. On that site, you can see what I think we need a Broadband Manager to do at https://www.blabnow.blog/los-alamos-broadband-manager-positi...

Beyond asking for thoughts on the Broadband Manager position, I would like to read general comments on:

4. How to get local governments to take responsibility for modern communication utility monopolies?

Former network engineer that went into management. My email is in profile if you would like more candid guidance than I can give on a public forum.

1. Not realistic, but not outside of normal for an management infrastructure/ops position. What you are writing is what you hope for, but sometimes it sends a red flag to potential applicants. The worry many high level people have is that they will be turned into the 'do everything' person. Trim a few of the less directly related requirements off of the description (e.g. Microsoft certification).

2. Yes... but also No. There are a lot of people who push through their careers collecting credentials and turning it another rung on the ladder. Chances are you will get a rosy candidate at some point, who will put in two years of aggressively spending your budget to inflate their resume and then move on. Not that a majority of people are this way, but the filters are set in such a way that this is what you are likely to end up with.

3. Other comments will say 'pay more', but it will be difficult to meet market rates for this skillset when working with local governments. If you can't get approval to raise the comp, instead try to split this role up into a team. Governments won't pay one highly skilled person 250k, but they will pay four people 80k, and one manager 120k.

4. Politically? Find someone with pull, and make sure that it's 'their idea'. Something that they can put on their win list.

Procedurally? Don't boil the ocean. Handle it iteratively. Start with commercial areas and new housing developments. White-glove your initial smaller install and it will create the broad demand from the community to expand it.

Love what you are doing. Hope this helps.

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> Governments won't pay one highly skilled person 250k

How can we change this? As a taxpayer, I'd be perfectly happy allocating some of my tax dollars to pay efficiency wages in situations like the one in this post, where hiring someone with specialized skills can save the community millions of dollars.

As a complete outsider, I would think of this as follows. The current status quo is a Comcast/CenturyLink duopoly. Let's imagine I wanted to start a local ISP. What would kill my company the fastest?

The thing that would pop up as #1 for me is access to poles to run fiber. If this killed Google Fiber it can definitely kill a smaller upstart.

There are gatekeepers who limit this access and they work for the county, in the permit office. The incumbents have a relationship with these people, and if they don't you better believe that their folks will start building one as soon as your project is announced. All your local contractors currently supporting Comcast are also not on your side.

It is in these people's best interest to see your project die. To make things worse, they don't have to work very hard to make it happen. All they have to do is sit on a permit application long enough to cast doubt on the project. Whereas the broadband manager has a huge hill to climb in comparison: they would have to build a relationship with all the people blocking their progress or figure out how to sidestep them.

So the person you are looking for should have high-caliber government sales skills. Good luck finding someone like that who also has a masters degree in CS and will work for 140k. This person can make millions in commissions in enterprise IT sales and they know it.

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Los Alamos County owns the electric, gas, water, and wastewater utilities. So they own the poles and have rights of way. I think we are in a better position in that regard than most communities. However, you may be correct that the pay scale is not adequate.
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I was surprised (and mostly shocked) by the ISP oligopoly in the US. When I heard that it killed Google Fiber and even such a money giant as Google can't properly fight it, I finally understood how bad it is.

It there any perspectives of game-changing in that field? And what can be done to change it?

I'm genuinely curious about it.

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It’s pretty much got to be regulatory changes. The regulations we have currently are what makes it legal to exclude competitors.
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Broadband is a natural monopoly. Most natural monopolies are either owned by the government or regulated. At the national level government in the US has failed with respect to broadband. I hope we can address that failure locally by building a government owned broadband utility.
Corporate democrats in the state legislature will be happy to trade away your local rights for the promise of union jobs in purple counties.
As a former Los Alamos resident I wish you luck in this endeavor, but my guess is Los Alamos is probably too small to run a cost effective ISP operation. My recommendation is to approach this from a "how do we bargain with ISPs as a single unit" perspective, not a "how do we build and operate our own network" perspective. My apartment building in Seattle just converted from cable to fiber. We're only 200 units but it was still enough of a prize to get some competition and concessions out of the vendors, and collectively LA has 50x those numbers. If you can get even 2 vendors to bid on a contract for the whole city then you may be able to get a pretty decent deal. Conceivable they'll refuse to play ball because they're scared of the community broadband concept, but at some level they are still businesses and so if the deal makes sense they may take it. Probably still need to hire a manager, but the expertise to look for is how to manage vendors and negotiate contracts more than "Cisco advanced certification", and you may be able to hire them initially as a consultant instead of a permanent employee.
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We may be too small, but I think we have a good utility department that provides electricity, gas, water and waste water service. We certainly need a manager as a first step. I agree that "Cisco advanced certification" may not describe what we need.
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What would you consider more of a win here: everybody in town has internet that they pay for through the city (either via taxes or fees), or Los Alamos owns and operates its own network? The model used for the other utilities may not work, for example the DOE puts up the money the lab uses to buy electricity which effectively subsidizes the town's costs, but they need power and don't really have much of an alternative (unless they fire up the reactors again...). The lab already has their own backbone connection so I doubt they're going to be interested in buying internet services from the town.
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The best win is that the County owns the last mile fiber and customers buy service that they choose. Part of the reason I prefer that has to do with issues like net-neutrality.

You are correct about the other utilities. The Feds actually built some of the infrastrucure and simply gave it to the County when they gave up running it.

You are sort of correct about the lab's backbone connection. However that connection is owned and operated by the phone company, now called Lumen. Lumen sells capacity on that link to Comcast.

The lab is not going to be interested in buying service from the County, but as a consequence of the pandemic they have said that they are interested in supporting employees working from home. Working from home with the available Internet connections is difficult.

It sounds like we're the same person. I'm on the utilities board for my city and am pushing for the same thing. I meet monthly with a group organized under the Fiber Broadband Association that is focused on municipal broadband. We have quite a few members and most either have some form of municipal broadband or are in the process of getting it. If you shoot me an email (see my bio) I'd be happy to connect you. Everyone is eager to help and many of them just went through this process in the past couple years. I think that's the best route forward as they've already gone through this and can share what they know.
Would it be cheaper to just get everyone that would use it StarLink?

I’m just weary from trying to fight horrible broadband providers blocking every step of the way. Maybe the answer is to go over their heads.

Maybe also worth looking into tge history of Longmont, CO's NextLight (https://mynextlight.com/).
It might be worth talking to these folks: https://ruralinnovation.us/

This won't answer your immediate questions, but they've been heavily involved in getting startups to move to small communities. Municipal broadband is a big part of that, and I believe some of them worked on those efforts in Vermont.

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Thanks for the link. I sent them a note.
My last post was June 12, 2012, but I did a blog for over 4 years about exactly what I thought. The county has already done REDInet (Regional Economic Development Iniative) which thought it would sell little chunks of bandwidth for big prices after it was done, and somehow that last chunk of fiber through the San Ildefonso pueblo's overhead power poles never happened, and fiber between the townsite and White Rock never happened. Comcast had the only fiber between the hill and White Rock, and consumed it with TV and the relatively slow DOCSIS technology. If the county builds anything, it will be very expensive and unpopular with the voters.

Try talking with Allan and Mariela Saenz at Los Alamos Network, losalamosnetwork.com.

My blog is still there at fiberlanm.blogspot.com.

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I just looked at your blog. You quit shortly after I started.

My home Internet connection is through Los Alamos Network.

I believe that the Carson Electric Co-Op in Taos uses REDInet to provide an Internet option to their customers.

I heard for years that the San Ildefonso prevented us from connecting to REDInet. Then Alan told me that he and Comcast and everyone else buys capacity on the link that Lumen operates for LANL.

We need a someone employed by Los Alamos County who knows what's going on.

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Maybe there is a way to wake up REDInet to reality. But New Mexico tends toward bureaucracy that sucks up money and really doesn't accomplish much, so I don't hold out much hope, either regionally or locally.

I moved to Camp Verde, Arizona. Things were even worse here, but the small cable company sold out to Suddenlink out of Round Rock, Texas, and that sold out to Altice, from France, and I think Suddenlink here is similar to Comcast in Los Alamos. There's nobody like Allan, and cable's fatal flaw is that upload speeds are capped at 10 Mbits/sec. I paid over $300 a month for a couple of years for less, and now pay about $130 for 50 down, 8 up. Sigh.

Trouble is, if you offer gigabit, or even 200 megabit, symmetric, for a few hundred customers, you need 40 gig or 100 gig upstream, and that's a big-city thing. Citylink in Albuquerque does have that, and I suspect LANL does, too, though I'm not in touch with them the past 8 or 9 years.

Also, for WFH (work from home) for LANL, within the county or from Taos through Belen, there's still the fact DOE (Department of Energy) really, really wants all LANL traffic to go through ESnet (Energy Sciences) so latency that could be microseconds inside town becomes at least 70 milliseconds. That makes a huge difference in how useful it is.

Other nearby resources are Jane Hill and Cybermesa in Santa Fe, Richard Loewenberg and his first mile mailing list, also in Santa Fe and John Brown at Citylink in Albuquerque. The subscription web page for 1stmile is:

http://mailman.dcn.org/mailman/listinfo/1st-mile-nm

I don’t really have any constructive critiques beyond just saying that I support what you’re doing.

I think the long game that local politicians miss (or are financially motivated to not see) is that broadband is becoming as important to communities as roads. It facilitates lowering the costs of so many things, benefits companies+individuals+government, improves equality of access+opportunity, on and on.

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I mostly agree with you. For the first time in a decade, we have a County Council in Los Alamos that understands that broadband is an essential utility. We are a small rich county with a population less than 20K. I don't believe financial motivations have affected any Councilor's judgement in the 16 years I've lived here.

If you know people who might be interested in the Broadband Manager position, please tell them about it.

I may not have much experience in broadband but i’ve spent most of my career in municipal/county software. My email is in my profile if you want to reach out, I’d like to help any way i can.
I helped a similar network get off the ground in IL. I’d love to help - email is in bio.
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Thanks for the link. I'm part way through part-ii. It's a good read.
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