How did you transition from computer engineering to product management?

I worked as an embedded software engineer for about five years before discovering Product. I worked on the operating systems for mobile devices and I also worked in telecom. I was doing hardware driver programming, working on big network switches and doing the programming for them.

The big moment for me was learning about how the products I was building were being used. This was back in about 2013 when I was working in telecom. I learned that the Brazilian government had just signed a $20 million contract for a product I was working on. I started asking about what’s this big deal? This product system in preparation for the 2014 World Cup was fascinating to me – that those product line managers had been thinking and ideating on this product for years.

It was early days for LinkedIn but it was still pretty easy to search for product managers on the platform. I started seeing how people got into product management from engineering. MBAs were also very common – I started doing research and figuring out the career trajectories and decided to pursue an MBA at UCLA. Following that, I landed a product role at Microsoft, and started my career in the B2B enterprise software space.

What was the leap from engineering to product management like?

A lot of the product managers I talk to are former engineers. Despite not working on web-based products initially, the ability to understand the language of engineers was really useful at the start of my career. Another aspect that has been really helpful for me is the ability to go really deep on data analysis. My MBA rounded me out in terms of communication skills and storytelling. And overall business knowledge helped the transition.

When I first started in Product, I gravitated towards engineering problems because I was so comfortable with them, but as a product manager, that’s not where you add the most value. As a product manager, I needed to understand the customer space better.

Working in big tech early on in a product career

Initially early in my career, really understanding the problem space was a big deal. PM also sounds for ‘problem manager’ it’s not about building things, it’s about understanding what the real problem is you’re trying to solve and working together with your team to figure out how you build, how you quickly add value and iterate over time, or know when to invest deeply and build a really robust solution. I think that’s where Product really brings the most value.

I think early on that was the biggest challenge, because at a big company – especially in B2B – there’s a lot of distance between you and the customer. There’s customer support, salespeople, the management chain, all different inputs trying to tell you what you need to build.

There’s no substitute for talking directly to customers and a lot of the time, especially in B2B, you don’t get to do this. Even if you try, you don’t get to talk to the customer. You can talk to the buyer, or you might talk to the HR director who’s trying to buy the  software, but they’re not going to use it day to day.

As I’ve progressed in my career, the challenge has moved to how do you navigate this organisational structure and allocate and mobilise resources so that everyone’s going after the same goal.

What’s one resource you wish you’d had when you started as a junior product manager

Community. When I was at Microsoft I had an opportunity to play a role in creating space for product people to connect and share advice inside the company.

It can feel a little bit lonely in Product. It can be you and maybe eight to 10 engineers and while you have other product peers, they’ve got their own roadmaps and challenges. When I was starting out, it wasn’t natural for product managers to connect and share tips.

Now there’s just so much available online, so much content which wasn’t really there when I first started. Having some of that content about best practices would have been nice.

What’s diversity like in Product?

We’ve come a long way, but we need to encourage more product leaders to speak up and share their thoughts and ideas.

We must also continue to build our own communities. The Black Product Managers Network is a phenomenal community that’s now global.

There’s a black PM network in Google and it’s amazingly valuable. For example, we held our first annual black product management conference last year in Atlanta. It was super exciting to see all these black product managers in a room, to support one another and bring that community together.

Tell us about your experiences as a person of colour when you’ve looked to grow in your role

It is really really hard. I’ve been fortunate that throughout my career I‘ve bumped into at least one or two folks who look like me, and who were inspiring in some way. But eventually I had to get comfortable with finding people outside the black community who would mentor and support me.

I used to reach out every five business days to senior mentors, and I’d do it at least three times. I would always assume that if they didn’t get back to me, they must not want to help me. But that’s not what it is,they’re just busy. If you can get 15 minutes, you can get some guidance. In order to get more of us there you have to get good at finding those people.

I have at least one mentor right now. They’re not black – the higher up you go the less you’re going to see people who look like you. You have to get comfortable with that. But then also remember as you climb to look for other people that you can help.

I would say be bold, reach out, be polite, be persistent and also look around at everybody. There’s always something you can learn from them.

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