From Novice to Data Pro in 90 Days: Avery Smith's Exclusive Method

I see data scientist data engineer data

analyst roles continuing to rise over

the next decade I think it is tricky

because a lot of people see layoffs at

like big Tech like Fang companies and

stuff like that but like Fang companies

I feel like they way over hired during

covid and so I think it's just kind of a

uh reaction to that so I I try to tell

people to not look at those necessarily

as as The Shining examples of of where

the industry is at because there's still

lots of data jobs in companies that

aren't Tech at all when it comes to you

actually deploying model and having them

be used by people trust is huge in

Industry these humans have to be able to

trust your algorithm but before you you

Garner that trust explainability is a

big deal if you can explain what's going

on or if you can have explainability in

your model that helps the human kind of

oh this is what I this is why it's

suggesting this that can be really big

because if you have a model but at the

end of the day the humans making the

decision and they're ignoring your model

your model is not very

[Music]

useful welcome to the watsi podcast this

is your host Lis Fran bushar and today I

received ay Smith founder of the data

carrier jumpstart platform where he

teaches you how to learn a job in data

in 90 days coming from another field in

this episode I focused on education how

AI is affecting education and also

applied tips to leverage chpt and other

AI tools to learn more but also practice

your skills to be more productive and

find a job it was an amazing discussion

and every gave a lot of great insights

related to data productivity and always

learning more I hope you enjoy this

episode and if you do please don't

forget to leave a like below or a five

star review depending on where you are

listening this episode on let's dive

right into it yeah so I studied chemical

engineering in school actually and after

my first semester I was like crap I

don't like chemical engineering at all

but I didn't really know what else to

what what to do instead uh and I got

super lucky and I ended up working at a

small uh startup that made these sensors

that basically would smell the air and

tell you what was in the air if there

was something dangerous like a drug or a

bomb or something like that and there's

a data scientist who worked there and he

basically kind of took me over his wing

and and taught me how to become a data

scientist on that job and he eventually

quit and I took over for him and then I

went to work as a data scientist at

Exxon and I actually got a master's in

data science while I was there as well

and basically when I was breaking into

the field it felt like there was not a

ton of really good online resources to

learn there was a lot of boot camps but

they were really expensive um and I was

like man I feel like the best way to

break into data science into Data in

general is by doing projects and by

making it fun and there really wasn't

very many platforms that were trying to

do that and I said well I'm gonna start

my own and really you know create a

platform that's really focused on

breaking in like the career aspects and

the project aspects because I thought

that's what the mo was most useful for

me I I couldn't agree more on the the

project aspect and that's also what I'm

trying to build with towards ey but I

wonder for data specifically you have a

pretty bold claim of uh you can bring

the students to learn a job in 90 days

so I wonder first how do you do that

like how do you allow people to Lear a

job in 90 days but also why were you the

right person to build the platform do

you think it's like some kind of

interview question I guess but why you

for for building this this data learning

platform I'll tackle the first question

first and yeah my LinkedIn says that

help people land data jobs in 90 days

and the reason I say that is because

that's literally what I do and it's

possible now there's a bunch of caveats

in asteris on that statement um that you

probably don't see on LinkedIn um for

example when I first started this

platform I was trying to help people

people land data science jobs and

especially from like non-technical or

non-stem or non-traditional backgrounds

and what I realized then is that's it's

really hard to land a data science job

especially if you don't have a technical

background because not only are you like

switching careers into something new but

you're learning a lot of new math and

you're probably learning to program like

it's really hard to do data science

without being able to program and so

when you're learning new math when

you're transferring careers and you're

learning to program those three things

add up and it takes a lot a lot longer

than 90 days the majority of the time it

was really hard and so what I've pivoted

into more is like bi business

intelligence and data analytics and

financial analytics and business

analytics and those jobs don't require

as much coding they don't require as

much math so you can do it h a lot

faster and the really interesting thing

about when it comes to Landing a job is

it's actually not that important of how

much you know it's how do you Market

yourself and the way that you you Market

yourself the way that you actually

conduct your job hunt that ends up being

actually much more important than your

actual technical skills at the end of

the day so that's one of the reasons why

we're able to do it faster because we

focus more on that versus your technical

skills of course we still need to focus

on technical skills but it's not big of

as big of a factor and then your second

question about like why was I the right

person to build the platform that I did

one I don't know if I am I'm still

figuring that figuring that out every

day uh but two is I think

um when I was in my master's

program and a lot of the resources I was

consuming online data science and data

in general was boring it was like super

boring it was taught by you know someone

who was older it was taught by someone

who talked like this kind of monotone

and explained or like or like for me

being in in the US it was taught by

someone who who you know maybe wasn't

from the US or something like that and I

was like this isn't as fun and engaging

as it could be and so that's one of the

things I pride myself on is like making

data more fun I talk kind of fast I talk

kind of animated and when I'm when I'm

teaching I'm always trying to do it in a

fun scenario so actually the first time

I taught like a data science course or

anything like that uh it was actually

basically right after the pandemic

started and like we did like this whole

use case study with um trying to predict

if there's going to be toilet paper at

your local grocery store and that was

just this just a fun example right so

that's one thing I think I bring to the

tables I try to make data fun yeah

that's essential I I live the same thing

in universities just well you do have

some very interesting profs and I I

guess that's this is where you end up

going to like if you have a nice math

teacher you will enjoy math and you will

go towards the math route like I I guess

it all depends on on the professor and

that's also the good side of Internet

like you can basically choose your

professor and your favorite learning

method so that's pretty cool and before

getting into the this more specifically

you mentioned that if you are going into

AI the the AI route you you need to

learn programming but you also need to

learn math and maybe that's less true

for data analytics but you will still be

using algorithms and other math related

things so I wonder what's your opinion

on learning the theory like how those

algorithms were built or like this the

math behind the algorithms is it

relevant is it worth learning or do you

should you just learn like the the one

line of code that implements it this is

kind of a heated question and I think

there's people in both parties people

who are really Pro application and

people who are really pro theory and

maybe this is another reason why maybe

people would like to learn from me or

they'd hate to learn from me I hate

Theory I personally have never enjoyed

it I've never like even in school when

when I was learning chemical engineering

they teach you all like these like the

theory behind it and you know this is

the formulas and stuff like this and I'm

like great skip all of that wake me up

when we actually get to the application

of why this is important and so that's

that's I'm super biased to like actually

implementing data things now I don't

think you should totally ignore Theory

necessarily like it's definitely can be

helpful and help you implement better

but when it comes to like if I had to

choose one or the other I personally am

always going to choose application uh

over theory in both my my preference

Choice personally and then my teaching

style as well and instead of theory do

you think it's important to also try to

explain what you're doing like making it

more accessible like for example the

theory would be the person building the

thing understanding the

underlying processes but do you think

it's appointed to try to explain if you

are using a CNN or whatever algorithm

try to explain it with your company or

with the people using it how it works in

like layman's terms like is it important

or should they also not know like it's

not relevant just like the theory is not

really relevant when it comes to you

know people actually you actually

deploying models and having them be used

by people uh trust is huge in Industry

like they have to these humans have to

be able to trust your algorithm and so

you either you know you either can earn

that by Pro proving that you're right

over and over and over again you know

and and eventually hopefully the humans

are like okay like I get it like this

algorithm this really works I I I've

seen the results but before you you

Garner that trust or maybe your model

isn't good enough um explainability is a

big deal um so for example in most

companies around the world although

there's algorithms that are like

suggesting what to do a lot of the times

a human's still making the decision at

the end of the day and so with that

human you know if if the computer says

you know we should go up but the human

still deciding are we going to go up or

are we going to go down trust in your

model can really make the difference

about what that human actually decides

so if you can have if you can explain

what's going on or if you can have

explainability in your model that helps

the human kind of oh this is what I this

is why it's suggesting this this is

probably why it's a good idea that can

be really big because if you have a

model but at the end of the day the

humans making the decision and they're

ignoring your model your model is not

very useful yeah and about

education in general what's your thought

on traditional education and online

education will it are they just

complimentary one to each other or like

will online education replace completely

traditional education online education

has opened up so many opportunities for

so many people so for example I actually

got my master's degree from Georgia Tech

I've never even been to the state of

Georgia so um that like obviously opened

up like it's a really world-class um

technology college in the United States

and a gave me the opportunity to go

there fairly affordably still like

$177,000 and I think there's more

affordable things that you can do um but

still like it wasn't like 40 or 70,000

right yeah um at the same time there is

something to be said about being in

person I feel like it's a lot more

engaging to be in person versus online

so I think it's a trade-off it's like

how engaged do you want to be and like

how much Community presence do you want

to feel compared to the flexibility of

it all right because like if I went in

person

I couldn't I couldn't do it on my own

schedule which is difficult so I think

those there's there's still room for

both places if you if you really want to

be in person you really want to be

engaged you feel like that's important

for your learning I say go there but if

you're like hey I only have you know six

hours a week at like random times maybe

you know 10 pm to midnight on Tuesday

and Friday like traditional education

might not work for you so online

education might be the right fit so I

think there's room for both of them

moving forward and it'll be interesting

to see how they interact with one

another yeah yeah that surprised me that

you're you did your Masters remotely

just because I I've seen many of your

posts talk about the net like building

your network and the usefulness of a

good Network so I wonder how did you

manage to grow and develop a network if

you did your Masters remotely like isn't

it better to do it in person and try to

make friends and just contacts for a

future or you did still manage to make

great contacts and along the way even

remotely you know that's that's a really

interesting question I was actually

reading this book right before I hopped

on this call it's um it's called the

million dooll weekend by uh Noah Kagan

um he started uh app Sumo and it was

actually really interesting so this

guy's like a

multi-millionaire and this quote was

really interesting he said 90% of my net

worth comes from meeting people I

thought that was so fascinating for him

to say that uh and I don't think that is

100% true for me personally but I'm also

not like I don't have near net worth

that he has so maybe I need to start

meeting more people networking for me

has come really from from inperson like

connections for me I go to church every

Sunday and my church has like a super

big network with with lots of

interesting people and so I'm able to

meet a lot of really cool interesting

people through my church so that's like

one way I network but then predominantly

a lot of my networking has come from

posting on LinkedIn uh almost exactly

four years ago I started posting on

LinkedIn um during the pandemic at first

it was to my first post like ever on

LinkedIn basically was the US government

put out like a petition for all data

scientists to use their NLP skills to

try to figure out what we know about

covid how to fight covid how dangerous

is co this is like right early days of

the pandemic and I posted about that and

I was like working on it I was like live

stream working on it and I'm so bad at

NLP so I I didn't get anything really

done um but I tagged a bunch of people

on LinkedIn and that post ended up

getting 880,000 views on LinkedIn and I

was like people are on LinkedIn and they

they see stuff what the heck and

basically since then I started posting

almost every single day on LinkedIn for

four years and I've grown my network to

like 107,000 followers now and you know

I haven't met any of those people really

you know but just by providing them

value hopefully via posts and maybe

direct messages and comments has really

expanded my network quite large too

where if I if I need something I can

often ask my network and hopefully get

some help and how do you manage to post

every day how do you find IDs or how how

do you manage to bring value every day

it's definitely hard and I definitely

think I'll I'll say I fail sometimes I'm

bringing value uh every day I think you

can educate people you can entertain

people you can support people there's

different methods um that that you can

do based off of what your interests are

and what you're trying trying to do it's

it's hard it's really hard I I would say

another quote here from I think Pablo

Picasso he says uh all art is theft and

that's one of the things that I do is I

I try to find stuff that really

motivates me or inspires me or teaches

me and twist it give it my own twist and

then you know put it in my domain and

give it to my audience so I'm really

inspired by by other people's and you

know I watch a lot of YouTube and like

seeing some of the stuff that people do

on YouTube I'm like man let's just do

this but make it for data analytics or

something like that so I I'll say I get

inspired by a lot of people um the other

one is uh I do I do kind of use a little

bit of AI you know giving some ideas to

get me get me started on my posts it's

very in fact it's never happened where

AI has just created a full post for me

that I've actually used but at least it

gives me a warm start yeah I do the same

for well not for IDs but for like

editing or suggesting titles or or

things like this it's it's it's very

good it's a yeah I think it's a very

good editor if you go back and forth

with it I guess brainstorming as well is

great with it it's it's really fny

because I I don't know if you you

followed this but here where I live I

know that universities really don't like

chat GPT like they don't like students

using AI whereas it's like so good and

so useful to learn anything my next

question was about universities and more

specifically Graduate Studies but do you

think they are still relevant now

Graduate Studies do a masters as you did

or even a PhD like is it something that

is still relevant now with C GPT where

you can learn and almost do anything but

all the other resources online is it

still worth to go for a twoyear four

year or whatever degree I think it

really depends on what you're trying to

accomplish if you're trying to like for

example break into data analytics I

don't think it's needed at all I think

there's better faster methods to do so

that are that are more affordable but

like if you want want a network if you

want like a top tier job at like a

really top tier company if you want to

like Master the theory behind it then

then go for it so I think I almost feel

like you're going it's like it's not

like what path is better it's like what

destination do you want to end at so I

still think there's there's places for

it by the way you won't believe so um I

had a coach I do one-on-one coaching

calls with people who want to break into

data analytics and I always ask like

have you taken any of previous data

courses and this person just recently

told me that there in a master's of data

analytics with chat GPT I don't know

like I haven't talked to this person yet

so I've never heard of that I'm highly

suspicious that that that it even exists

but I mean maybe the masters programs

are even even starting to change too who

knows

well and for data analytics specifically

then what would be the like you

mentioned there are other ways and

better ways than University so what what

would be the skill skills that you need

for data analytics what what do you need

to learn to become like a professional

or freelancer or just work in the field

once again I really like the idea of

starting with the end in mind so if you

want to be a data engineer versus a data

scientist versus a data analyst so on

and so forth you're gonna have to have

different skills so I really help people

become like business analysts Financial

analysts data analysts and that's

another thing term titles in the data

field are all messed up and all over the

place so it's kind of hard to even know

uh what what you're even going for

um but have you had Luke Bruce on this

podcast h no I didn't that okay I would

highly suggest having Luke Bruce on the

podcast he's probably the the leading

like AI for data analysis P experts that

I know makes a lot of really cool

YouTube videos about how to use chat GPT

to analyze data um but one of the cool

things that Luke's done is he's actually

web scraped uh about a half million

different job listings for different

data rules and then done some basic an

analytics showing you what skills are

listed the most often so for like a data

analyst job it's typically SQL Excel and

either powerbi or Tableau um maybe

python as well just depending on how the

seniority of the position but that's th

in my opinion those I don't know four to

five skills are basically the skills

that you need to know I I typically I I

out of all those skills I like python

the most but I tell people to learn at

last because it's it's the longest

learning curve out of all of those

skills Excel most of the time people

know powerbi and Tableau if you can

figure out PowerPoint you'll be able to

figure out those because it's just click

and drag and then um SQL at least for

data analytics basic data analytics it's

really like 20 different statements

commands that you can probably learn in

like two weeks so um those that's where

I tell people to start and then you

hopefully can land your first job and

then I try to tell people you can

actually you know get paid to Learn

Python on the job because it's like and

the data world you're always going to be

learning companies know that so they can

actually pay you to learn those things

that's where I would start hey this is

just a quick Interruption to remind you

to leave a like and a festar review

depending where you are listening if you

are enjoying this episode I also love to

know your thoughts about education in

general will online education replace

the traditional education with

universities and Graduate Studies do you

think a paper will still be relevant

down the line I'm really wondering on my

own I think online education will change

a lot evolve a lot and be more and more

well seen by companies when it comes to

hiring people I also think learning by

building is the most essential thing you

can do so where you learn your skills

isn't really important what's important

it's what you've done with it so please

if you're looking for online platforms

to learn focus on the platforms that

teaches you through building real world

like projects now let's get back to

discussion I don't know if data

analytics is different but I know that

in artificial INT in intelligence in

general the field is changing and

evolving super quickly so for instance

universities are very behind in what

they teach like the Frameworks the

libraries Etc what you usually learn is

not that relevant anymore when you

graduate so I wonder if it's the same

for you and for your platform and how

you manage to keep the content and

everything up to date for all new

students if it's like if the field is

changing so fast yeah that's an

interesting interesting question I

definitely think AI is probably moving

faster than data at this point um

there's just so much stuff happening

especially in the generative space data

like obviously is is changing quickly

but it's not it's not in terms of months

it's more on the terms of years at this

point so like for example I think the

big changes that have probably happened

since I started my program um what two

and a half years ago so like I'm I'm

still not like all that I haven't had

decades you know teaching right so I

started this program about two and a

half years ago one of the things that

happened was uh Excel came out with the

X lookup instead of the vlookup it just

makes looking up things in Excel way

easier so you just make a new lesson

about about the X lookup you know that's

that's fine python for Excel came out

recently within the last year personally

I don't understand that yet and I don't

really see it's being used in industry

so I haven't really felt any pressure

although I probably will in the next

year or so C some content around that I

haven't really seen it being used so

it's like I'm not going to teach

something if it's not useful to Industry

um so yeah and then like powerbi I can't

remember when powerbi came out probably

200 and like 15 or something like that

um so like I don't know maybe once a

decade a really big tool will come out

that that's fairly new um but I don't

think we've had I mean probably the

newest one to come out for that is is

chat GPT and generative AI but the

problem is one there's not really a

league leader for you know analyzing

data with with generative AI yet I mean

you probably chat GPT is the front

runner um but it's difficult because you

run into a bunch of privacy issues right

because no company's really going to let

you upload their data sets to chat GPT

without the proper protection so it's

not really being used that much in

Industry at least with the with the

proper chat GPT tool you know some of

the open AI stuff it might be used and

you know custom llms and stuff like that

um but it's not being used that much yet

um but it's still really interesting to

potentially use for troubleshooting so

we have a couple lessons on like how to

troubleshoot with chpt and stuff like

that so I don't know it's it's a really

good question I'll I'll ask me in five

more years and I'll have a better answer

probably yeah chpt is definitely useful

for debugging at least if you cannot put

like sensitive information that's yeah

there's always there's tons of things

you can do without putting sensitive

information yep and speaking of chpt how

do you personally use AI on your

platform like either for building the

content or for whatever it is be being

used to do on the platform like not not

teaching the students how to use AI but

how are you using it for the platform

yeah so this is this is actually

something we just implemented um that's

that's brand new so one of the things we

did is we actually took all of our

lessons all of our video lessons all of

our text lessons and we create our own

chatbot and that that basically is

trained on all of all of the lessons so

it's like a custom trained chatbot

specifically for my boot camp the data

analytics accelerator and so it just

sits in the bottom right hand corner

anytime someone has a question they can

just go to the chat bot ask it there it

it I mean I trained it basically uh with

some software I'm not like that good of

a programmer so I use some software to

do it and it's like a little sketchy on

like its its responses sometimes but but

it always it gives references to the

actual individual lessons which is super

useful so even if it's not that coherent

of an answer that it replies back to you

it'll often give you the references

where you can go back to where our

instructors are actually teaching it and

and get it straight from the instructor

so at least it does that pretty

consistent that that's very cool that's

we also recently well a few months ago

we released our AI tutor with basically

all the Articles and courses we've

created with tozi so pretty similar and

and it's it's been super useful and

people love it but is there any other

way you are using leveraging AI on the

platform because of course a chatbot is

like really cool and everyone loves to

just have a quick answer instead of

talking to someone but that's something

like lots of people do is there anything

you you are using AI to do that is

different yeah I think there's some

other cool things that we're doing uh at

my company that I don't see a lot a

whole lot of other people doing so uh

one of the things I'll talk about it's

another chat bot but but hold on it's

cool I think you'll really enjoy it um

so that chap I just told you about is

for my students in the boot camp that's

the the purpose of it I actually when

when open AI announced the GPT store I

was super excited I was like oh my gosh

I'm gonna build what I call Avery GPT

that has like all of my knowledge you

know I'm gonna put it in the the open AI

GPT store and it's gonna be awesome but

then I realized in order to use the GPT

store you have to have chat GPT plus

which is like $20 a month and I was like

okay I know some a lot of people have it

I use you know the plus but a lot of

people don't and they probably can't

afford it so I was kind of discouraged

when I was making it I was like ah I

don't really know if I want to make this

and so what I actually did is I actually

created this thing called um Avery GPT

maybe we could have a link in the show

description or something like that yeah

of course where where it's open to the

public and it has all like 2,000 of my

LinkedIn posts it has the transcripts

from my podcasts all 100 transcripts

from my podcast and basically it's like

anything I've produced content wise at

least via LinkedIn and Via podcast it

has all the knowledge to that so once

again it's a really fun chat bot where

you're getting you know custom like how

I would answer it if you ask me a

question right because I love doing

one-on-one coaching um but it's just

super hard because I value my time you

know it's like if I'm doing consulting I

charge like 300 bucks an hour so if I'm

doing one-on-one coaching I have to

charge someone like about the same right

um which is which is maybe not the most

expensive but it's expensive for a lot

of people and so this hopefully gives

people a chance to have oneon-one

coaching from me that's that's more

affordable obviously maybe not as good

but hopefully more affordable so that's

that's one way that we're doing it is is

making like a more publicly available

chatbot which I think is is kind of fun

um and the other way is we've actually

created some software called I call it

the interview simulator this is less for

for teaching data and more about

actually helping you land a job um and

the way this software works is I

recorded a bunch of my of videos of

myself asking really important interview

questions that you're going to get asked

in an interview usually behavioral

questions with a few technical questions

and so I you watch a video of me asking

it and then a recorder pops up on your

screen and says you know answer the

question and you record yourself on the

screen answering the question and then

you press submit and then it actually

shows an example like a like a good

answer of how you should answer this SP

this this um interview question and then

we actually give them a bunch of AI

feedback on how their answer went we

rank it zero to 10 I guess one to 10 we

give the pros we give the cons of what

they said so trying to give people a

little bit like more than just a mock

interview but like a little bit

interview coaching as well which which

is pretty fun yeah that's really cool

it's a I don't even know if it exists

somewhere right now but it's I feel like

it's a it's an amazing thing to have

especially on a learning platform it's

just really cool to have feedback on the

questions that you will surely answer

like what what we often say is to just

go on interviews to practice like you

will fail and that's it it's not a big

deal but that allows you to practice

without the the shame of of failing an

interview so it's pretty cool yeah 100%

there are some versions of this that

that are popping up on the Internet um

all of them are are a little bit

different um one of the things I like

about ours is we're the only video

platform so there are like some audio

platforms and we're also the only one

that uses a real human to askue the

questions a lot of them will use AI with

like an AI Avatar those are like 80%

there I think um but they just kind of

look creepy still like most of them uh

especially unless you get like a really

good Model A lot of these AI avatars are

still like kind of like a little roboty

so we we we asked the question from a

human you record via VIA video which is

the most real that's like how it will be

in the interview right although there I

think there are some platforms now that

are interviewing with AI avatars which I

don't like I rather have the humans do

it but maybe that's the future we're

going to I don't know yeah what did you

think on of uh channel one I don't know

if you've seen the no I haven't what's

this it's it was like an automated

Channel media with fully generated thing

that came out like well it should came

out I think it it was supposed to come

out in not sure but like it was

announced in December with a big video

release and it was super hyped yes I I I

heard the audio of it but I haven't seen

the video of it um that'll be super

interesting once again I think I

mentioned this earlier I don't know

about you I'm sure you're worlds above

me in like chat GPT prompts and AI stuff

like this but it's pretty rare although

with the interview simulator we don't we

don't actually edit anything now that I

think about it it's pretty rare for me

to just copy and paste you know any sort

of generative AI um because it usually

could use some human optimization so I'd

be I but but maybe they did maybe

channel one was like maybe they did like

perfect it over time right so I don't

know it's it'll be interesting to see

I'm here's here's the truth is it's

gonna get better over time and it's

gonna need less humans over time I'm

sure of that but do you think people

will want to listen to avatars and like

see news from not real people if it's

compelling enough like for years they've

had I don't know you can you can cut

this out if you want to um but they have

the for years they've had those AI

influencers right yeah and and so it's

like as long as it's

compelling compelling enough I don't

think people really really care um you

know if it's not compelling if it's like

crappy you know I think people just care

about quality I don't think they

necessarily care about anything else

other than quality and right now most

AI you know

products or I guess results are usually

just not quite human sounding or not

quite the high enough quality I was

working because we we pump out like I

like you said earlier how the heck do

you you know how do you post on LinkedIn

every day I was talking to my team and

they were like well what if we just used

you know AI to generate LinkedIn posts

and I was like there's no one I can't

name one successful content creator

right now that is putting out AI excl

exclusively AI content sure they're

using it to brainstorm sure they're

using it to edit sure they're using it

you know for this title or this part of

it but it's not like there's any maybe

you know one but I don't know any

content creator right now that's like

like just copying and pasting a result

and posting it and it's going well no it

and like as soon as you have a little

experience with CHP you you can already

like you just see that it's generated

like even if it doesn't use the I don't

know the Delvin and all the terminology

that uses yeah yeah yeah like all the

terms are so proper to chpt I don't even

know it's it's supposed to be using what

humans use the most but it's like it it

uses a vocabulary that nobody uses it's

a bit special weird but yeah I maybe

it's done like maybe openi just managed

like to do this for the users to know it

generated like some kind of of

management thing but yeah it's it's like

so easy to spot that that a piece of

content or something is generated is

it's just it's really bad and I guess

that people that do not speak English

very well or that are not used to using

chat GPT don't know it so they sometimes

copy paste but if you've been using it

for like a month or or whatever you will

definitely like right away know that

it's generated and I don't know if

LinkedIn and Twitter twit and other

platforms have done some things to like

down rate the generated post but they

they surely don't do well like I've seen

some generated post like as soon as you

see the first sentence you already know

yeah but they they are all very like

post that don't do any reach so I really

don't know I also do not know anyone

using well like copy pasting from jbt or

something in directly into social media

and I guess that's for reason but like

it's yeah I don't know it's very easy to

spot that it's generated and I guess it

doesn't have enough personality I I

really don't know I we we've tried at

toward we've tried to do some kind of uh

tool like a social co-pilot for well

mainly for me for podcasters and and

bloggers but to basically take a Blog

and try to follow the style of the

Blogger blogger while creating a post

that would extract like one or two cool

insights from around the post but still

it's it's so much work afterward editing

the the the post like it we we PR we

just tried so many things and it's still

we we are not able to make it like good

interesting and valuable like it's just

it it doesn't work unfortunately I'm

with you so that that was one of the

other things I wanted to mention one of

the ways that I'm also using AI is for

each one of my weekly podcast episodes I

do on the data career podcast um we we

edit it and descript which recently

added a bunch of AI features so like we

always start the podcast with a

highlight uh from the interview and so

I'll ask descript AI now to identify

five you know key parts of this podcast

that could potentially be yeah

Cliffhangers or gripping or viral or

captivating um and then I'll go listen

to all five of them and then choose one

right I'm not having it choose for me it

it usually can get one good one out of

five suggestions so we're we're using

that and then I also use a couple other

tools to to take in the recording and

transcribe it and then they'll they'll

generate things like LinkedIn posts

they'll generate things um like um uh

Instagram captions they'll post they'll

they'll they'll do my timestamps they'll

do my titles and stuff like that and

once again we're never it's it's always

copy paste edit yeah human human edit so

um it's probably it probably saves us I

don't know a significant amount of time

but it's we're also still putting time

into it it's like it usually gets you

like 50% of the way there so it it gives

you a warm start where you can you can

start from not a blank piece of paper um

but at least some helpful suggestions

yeah and for just any creative task just

like for example creating a new post on

LinkedIn it's just like you said that it

it takes you to the to 50% of the job

done but it's I feel like it's even more

than that just basically finding the ID

of the post and then having a draft that

you then just edit and post is of course

it's like 50% of the work is technically

done because it was written and you need

to edit like half of it and whatever but

just finding the ID of the post and

trying to format it correctly is this is

already this is a good like jbt is good

for I know organizing IDs I guess and

like knowing what to mention and then if

you're

not an expert but like knowledgeable

enough in the in the field that you are

posting on about you can just quickly

see what chpt says is is wrong or right

and just edit very quickly and make a

super good post out of it so it's yeah I

feel like it's just a it's really a game

changer for lot for I don't know if it's

creative tasks but like for a task that

requires you to come up with something

new or something with like very little

guidance I guess it's yeah it's

incredible it's awesome I agree are you

also teaching the like your students to

better leverage chpt or other AI tools

like do you have any lessons on that

yeah inside the platform we are doing

some lessons with chat GPT less about

actually like analyzing data for example

a lot with the career stuff so like for

instance um we talked about the

interview simulator software that we

have they have access to that uh I also

teach them how to conduct you can ask

chat GPT to conduct a mock interview

with you via text um and that turns out

good so a lot of career stuff a lot of

resume stuff like resumé bullets

brainstorming looking at your resume for

typos those types of things when it

comes to actually learning this the

actual technical part of data not a ton

but the one thing we do mention a lot is

troubleshooting like basically chat GPT

for for me and for my students is now

the new Google for when you hit an error

code I I would love to know what stack

overflows traffic has looked like over

the last year because I have to imagine

although stack Overflow is still useful

I'm not saying it's not useful but I'm

I'm imagining it's actually decreased

quite a bit because you know instead of

me Googling and just clicking the first

link which is always stack Overflow I'm

asking um chat GPT you know why did I

get this here's my code you know why did

I get this air and then it'll be like oh

you got this air because of this and

then it'll often just like here's the

revised code so you don't get the air

and that's really impactful so really

troubleshooting is really big for us and

that's what we're using chat GPT and AI

for the other thing is like warm starts

once again for coding so whenever I'm

coding something now in Python is

usually my my language of choice I will

ask chat GPT to take a stab out of it

like like go ahead and try chat GPT try

to try to create this app that I'm that

I'm building and you know once again

it's only getting about 40% there but

that's 40% that I didn't have to type

you know so uh it's really useful for

like starting code like I always hate

starting code don't want to start from a

blank slate right so give me the start

of a code that does this and usually it

does fairly well and other than

programming you you said that you of

course you teach but you also all you

keep learning and you are always

learning so do you have any well first

are you leveraging chpd to learn new

stuff but also do you have any habits or

good practices to like do you force

yourself to keep learning or it's just

like you love reading and you love going

on YouTube and like what do you do to

just keep learning keep progressing

improving is there is it yeah anything

if you have any tips specific tips with

ch GPD or just in your life in general

to to make you more productive to answer

your first question I I just want to

tell a quick story so I I'm an

entrepreneur I love doing what I do I

love teaching um I also love Tech and I

love software and so I also love social

soci media too um so recently I had an

idea to build a SAS software that would

basically help people repurpose content

on LinkedIn and I was like I want to

build this for me and then I want to see

if anyone else wants it you know and uh

I'm I'm a I'm not really a programmer

I'm I'm a chemical engineer who learned

how to program in college and then got a

you know master's degree in data science

so I can code in like python but like I

can't code a website for example right

uh but but I'm I'm familiar enough like

know like okay I probably want to use

like angular or JavaScript or something

like that for the front end and so I was

like you know what let's see if I can do

it with chat GPT and so uh I was like

okay chat GPT this is what I want this

is my you know app idea this is how I

want it to look uh this is this is kind

of what I wanted to to like the layout

to be uh and I was able to build the

front end and uh I was able to build the

back end and python I know python but

still chat GPT wrote most the back end

for me but getting them to talk to each

other on my local computer I couldn't I

couldn't get past an eror with jpt so I

ended up having to hire someone else but

like that's something that I would never

be able to do without shat GPT or

actually I could do I guess it would

just take me a lot longer to learn it um

so that's maybe one of the ways I'm

learning is just by like experimenting

with stuff like that which I think is is

really fun and then to answer your

question about like how do I learn in my

life I love I have like I don't have

ADHD at all but I say that I do because

I basically

go through every second of my day being

stimulated by podcasts so I listen to I

listen to like 60,000 minutes of p is

that the right number I'll have to check

my is it hours or pod or minutes I think

it's minutes 60,000 minutes of podcasts

last year um so I'm always listening to

a podcast so I learn a lot through that

if I'm not watch if I'm not on a podcast

my Tik Tok and my YouTube are very like

learning based and then the last thing I

do is I make myself read a non-fiction

book every day 10 pages I just get 10

pages of non-fiction reading every day

so that's probably the one habit that's

actually like a habit where it's like

not just kind of like learning is not

just kind of happening because I'm bored

um but I'm actually trying to like learn

a little bit every day by reading 10

pages that's a a good tip like it's not

a I don't remember habits I I think it's

just habits the name of the book but

like trying to to start new habits you

have to you basically should try to do

very easy steps like just if if you want

to start running you just put on your

shoes and you you go out and then you

can just go inside if you want but just

start by putting your shoes and not not

like have in mind to run a 10 kilometer

run each time or or whatever like it's

too ambitious just try to to start with

little steps so I really like the the

idea of the like limiting yourself to 10

pages not like an hour or or even more

per day and and so right now it's

million dollar weekend that you are

reading yeah I've I'm switching up so um

I yeah I've read Atomic habits and I'm

looking at my bookcase here I've read

Atomic habits and tiny habits and they

both kind of talk about that as well so

I really like that I just finished this

entrepreneur book called uh I think it's

called the e- myth and that was good

yeah um so now I'm reading yeah million

dooll weekend for one and I'm kind of

co-reading this like self hope book

called the mountain is you um so those

are the kind of the two I alternate on

based off of I'm more interested in like

learning about like business versus like

becoming a more mentally stable

human and would you recommend both uh I

mean to be perfectly honest I'm 10 pages

into into both right now so so so far so

good no no complaints um but I just

finished the e- myth um which for anyone

who's entrepreneurial um and wants is

thinking about starting a business I

found it very useful um so I enjoyed it

awesome um oh yeah I had one last

question about data for you um in the I

guess in the data analytics space or

just data space in general with chat GPT

and everyone transitioning do you feel

like the freelancing or just job World

in general is saturated now like is it

already too late to join in so I this is

so fascinating I thought that when Co

happens that like everyone would become

a free ancer I just like I almost

Envision a future where literally no one

actually has like a real job and

everyone's just a freelancer working

from home working on different projects

for months at a time um maybe multiple

at the same time I don't know that's how

I Envision the future so I actually

bought like a ton of like freelance um

stock like Fiverr and like other

freelancing platforms and they've tanked

they've gotten so they've gotten down

like like so much so my theory was off

or at least I'm I'm too early on my

theory I guess so that's kind of how I

pictured the the future of freelancing

and I guess we're not there yet uh in

terms of like data jobs being

oversaturated I don't think so I think

they're only going to get more and more

prevalent over the next decade or so um

there's so many companies who are still

so far behind in their data maturity um

and data has such a a high Roi that I

see data scientists data engineer data

analyst roles continuing to rise over

the next decade I think it is tricky

because a lot of people layoffs at like

big Tech like Fang companies and stuff

like that but like Fang

companies I feel like they way over

hired during covid and so I think it's

just kind of a a reaction to that so I I

try to tell people to not look at those

necessarily as as the as The Shining

examples of of where the industry is at

because there's still lots of data jobs

in companies that aren't Tech at all you

know in manufacturing they need data

analysts Pharmaceuticals need data

analysts Healthcare needs data analysts

like there's so many different

professions and big Tech's just one of

them awesome that's great news for all

the Learners that are listening and for

the the freelance on my I think more and

more people are going the freelance way

but I think it's I don't know if it's

easier but I think the the people just

like me and you for example are building

some kind of community and network and

so they find their clients themselves

like they don't have to rely on Fiverr

upwork and all the other platform so

maybe that's why they tanked a bit like

people do go the France way but they

they create a YouTube channel they are

active on Twitter they they have a good

GitHub or or whatever like they can find

clients in other ways maybe that would

be my theory you you're 100% right that

that that could definitely be the case

and this is the tricky part I think

about doing freelance I have a lot of

people in fact when I first started my

program I actually taught you how to

become a freelancer answer and like

start a consulting or like an agency or

something like that and I stopped

teaching that because it's way too much

work uh to become one if you're

transitioning like you should probably

work in the field before you become like

a freelancer but even with that if

you're interested in becoming a

freelancer you know from whatever Tech

job you have I mean great go for it but

just realize that 50% of your effort is

probably now not your Tech field it's

now business um you have to figure out

how to Market yourself how to do sales

how to set up a business bank account

how to how to invoice people and it's

that book that we mentioned earlier the

e- myth it talks about when you start a

small business there's there's three

people there's the tech well even if

it's just you there's three

personalities the technician which is

you know you being a tech person that

you've done your whole life the actual

technical work there's the manager and

then there's the owner of the business

and all three of those are very hard

personalities to to to balance all three

of those and actually balance the jobs

of three different people so I I think

that like you know there are people out

there who do who do the freelancing

route and they enjoy the marketing or

the business and so they're able to get

clients that way and I think there's

people who are like crap I don't

actually want to get into sales I don't

want to get into marketing I just want

to you know do AI or do data science or

do machine learning and they're like

crap what do I do and even like the

platforms like upwork or Fiverr even

then like where you're not necessarily

you don't have to go out and find your

own opportunities the opportunities can

find you even then it's a ton of

marketing intro calls direct messages so

it's it's about 50% business 50%

whatever else you want to do um if you

start off by yourself yeah if you just

want to code and learn well I guess you

learn a lot by being a freelancer and

entrepreneur but you learn different

things but if you just want to go into

AI data and just play with the models

and learn

uh like a traditional job is definitely

more interesting yeah awesome is there

okay you you have your data the the

platform the uh data carry jump start

that people can look into and I I also

seen I I've seen that you also recommend

checking out the the podcast and

newsletter for the students but just

anyone in general and I I just wanted to

ask you what's the difference with all

three like who should listen to the

podcast who should take the course who

should follow the newsletter or yeah how

how would you introduce each of them

yeah so the majority of my you know

content and products over the last three

years have been for people with

non-traditional backgrounds who want to

break into a data career so people who

are like oh I I'm interested in this I

think I want to do it maybe not 100%

sure yet or not sure like about a road

map that's pretty much the the people

I'm speak trying to speak to so for all

three of those things that's that's what

I'd recommend um if you're if you're

interested in just like career switches

that's where I'd recommend the interview

simulator where we we practice

interviews and you can do some like

practice interviews and stuff like that

but really most my content is for people

who are trying to break in the data

analytics World um so if that's you then

then come over data crew dumpster.com

and you'll be able to find everything

there awesome and there's also there

will be the every GPT Link in

description yes yeah if you want to

check out just like a fun uh GPT link um

yeah check that out that'll be great

perfect thank you very much for your

time and thank you for building this

learning platform and especially the the

the jobs section that is super useful

and really cool so thanks thanks a lot

for the insights thanks for coming on

the podcast yeah thank you for having me

I appreciate

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