Microsoft Adding New Key To PC Keyboards For First Time Since 1994 - Slashdot
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Microsoft Adding New Key To PC Keyboards For First Time Since 1994
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We asked Microsoft if a Copilot key would be required on OEM PCs going forward; the company told us that the key isn't mandatory now, but that it expects Copilot keys to be required on Windows 11 keyboards "over time." Microsoft often imposes some additional hardware requirements on major PC makers that sell Windows on their devices, beyond what is strictly necessary to run Windows itself.
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My first question to Microsoft would be: Why will this be different than Cortana, why would I design hardware around your latest shitty marketing ploy?
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You know the answer you'll get: "You've build a nice business selling windows PCs, what a shame if you lose your partnership contract".
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then, they'd be testifying in european anti-loby court. propped up by amazon and google
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Yeah, sure, like that time they broke 'em up.
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OEMs will be lining up to do it.
All we have to do is a trivial keycap reassignment and it'll latch on to a Microsoft marketing push that if you don't have that key, you should buy a new laptop with that key? Sign us up for anything that induces a feeling of obsolescence to drive upgrades!
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OEMs "retool" their assembly lines multiple times a year over trivial crap. Much of it less about "this makes sense" and more "this needs to inspire a sense of obsolescence to encourage purchasing replacement equipment when the "old" equipment may still meet requirements". They may like efficiency and low incremental expense to bring out a new model, but they churn pointless stuff anyway to prevent things like being able to drop in a new main board to refresh an old laptop.
If a key on the keyboard is Micr
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You don't need to "retool assembly lines" to change what gets painted onto a keyboard key.
Not sure if you have forgotten, but PC makers make keyboards for many different languages and character sets around the world. These character sets and how they get mapped to keys also change over time.
This is a very trivial thing for them to do.
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adding a new key is a bigger deal than shuffling the existing keys around. Not that I think they have a choice. Microsoft had no problems when they killed Linux Netbooks years ago. I seem to be the only one that remembers the CEO of Asus' drunken posts bitching about how Microsoft was gonna take his OEM Windows pricing away if he didn't stop loading Linux on netbooks.
Absolutely nothing happened when that revelation came out. So Microsoft is completely free to use their Windows monopoly to bully PC manuf-
Did you even read the article? They are not adding a new key. They are re-labeling the right-hand CTRL key, which will now be bound to this action in Windows by default.
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You don't need to "retool assembly lines" to change what gets painted onto a keyboard key.
Not sure if you have forgotten, but PC makers make keyboards for many different languages and character sets around the world. These character sets and how they get mapped to keys also change over time.
This is a very trivial thing for them to do.
Keyboards don't need much to change for different key layouts or added keys. The rubber dome ones just require changing the plastic circuits - and since they're basically print
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I doubt it. OEMs will likely simply remap the search key they already have. This isn't new or unique. Keyboards have a variety of different layouts and additional buttons as it is.
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Copilot, Cortana, Clippy; why do Microsoft assistants always start with C?
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To go along with other c words. Like C U N T
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That's what crap starts with.
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Yay, now Microsoft is finally adding the 'any' key we have been missing all these years!...wait, it is not called 'any'-key by default? Well, we'll soon fix that:)
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"I am altering your partnership deal, pray that I do not alter it further". This would also be consistent with the early prototype of the key [etsy.com] that seems to have been leaked.
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Rather than add, this looks to be a replace.
For a function that even mobile devices include without a special extra key.
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That's going to be bad for ergonomics. I've learned the hard way not to do modifier and letter on the same hand or it'll give you strain...
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I dunno, the usual trifecta of Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V, and Ctrl-Z (also X, but much rarer) work pretty well with just left hand, but as I was typing those out I was indeed using right hand for the shift key. Feeling around for it now I'd say that the right Ctrl key, at least on my keyboard, is a bit too far off to the side for a comfortable use if you keep your fingers on home row where they should be. The left Ctrl key is just a light turn of the wrist to get the pinky finger down to it, or pulling the hand back t
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Ctrl-O, Ctrl-L, and using shift+ctrl+arrow/home-end/page keys for text selection are all ergonomically disgusting with left control. Unless one's the type of person who holds a soda can with both hands...
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What's wrong with holding soda with both hands?
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Looks to want to replace the right control key
Great. First they (IBM) put the control key in the wrong place, and now they want to replace one, entirely.
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...along with the unexpected and amusing outcomes that can occur with AI technologies.
Another global thermonuclear war? Oh, ChatGTW, you just kill me. Well, us.
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Eternal April has begun.
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And so it shall be written.
And so it shall be done.
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They seem (according to the video) place it to the right of the right Alt key. Why do they think that changing the layout is good to anyone?
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If they take away our "Alt Gr" key they'll get into a war with German programmers, because that key is essential for typing {[][}~and |.
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"Since 1994"??? MS added "office" and "emoji" keys in their last iteration of their flagship ergo keyboard.
The crazy thing is that one of these is a hard-coded key combination, not a key code, so you can't even remap it.
The other crazy thing is that that there are named keys (in unix) that PC keyboard still don't implement. Howsabout adding a real new key we can use?
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"Instill Linux"?
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Like the fantastically usefull 'Compose' key. I always remap the useless CapsLock key to Compose nowadays. It can do everything easily: accents in foreign languages, rare characters, greek characters, emoji, etc...
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It's labelled "caps lock" but it's pronounced "control".
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I use right Alt for that. Easy to hit with my right thumb and never used for anything else. I've always used Caps Lock to capitalize more than 2 characters at a time and can't imagine disentangling it from my muscle memory at this point.
The Compose key was pretty revolutionary for me, though. Supported out of the box on Linux, and on Windows there's an awesome program called WinCompose that does a great job.
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You haven't yet been hit by the "change screen layout" special key on windows laptops, which is hardcoded to super+P ? Quite a few keys on laptop keyboards are mapped like this.
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Their flagship Surface keyboard also has calculator, minimise all, notifications, and lock as dedicated keys (not shared function keys).
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...when the AI bubble backfires and Copilot is just an archived project in a Microsoft repository, everyone will be scratching the Copilot icon off this key.
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I used to think the M$ engineers were idiots. Then I realized it was the marketing people at M$ that make the rest of the company look like idiots. Now I'm not so sure.
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by Nrrqshrr ( 1879148 ) on Thursday January 04, 2024 @10:45AM (#64131149)
Steve Jobs said it best.
When a company first starts, it's the engineers who make all the decisions because their work is driving sales. But when everyone already has a phone/computer/laptop, it becomes the task of salespeople to drive up sales. They end up earning promotions, and the company ends up with people at the helm who have no idea what the words Design and Engineer mean unless they're used in a sales pitch.-
Ironically Apple is the epiphany of form over function for marketing purposes. They dedicated their lives to stylised minimalism, to the point where they were long being mocked for not including something as mind blowing as a second mouse button.
Steve Jobs wasn't running a company of engineers, he was running a company of artists and I'm not sure that's better than a company of marketing people.
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Coincidentally, I just finished reading Apple [amazon.com] (out of historical curiosity - I was about 15 when it was written in 1997) and the "the engineers who make all the decisions" was one of the real problems that Apple had after Jobs was ousted. It works for startups, but it absolutely does not work for a company with a larger product line who needs to make strategic decisions and investments, or who has unpleasant baggage to deal with. Engineers tend to like shiny new problems to solve and not every product i
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1. ob - paperclip symbol on the new key for religious reasons.
2. "Microsoft marketing - were first against the wall when the revolution came." -- Encyclopedia Galactica
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As awesome as the last keys they added?/s
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Your psychic abilities are keen. You should start a 900-phone number service.
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And how is Microsoft not an abusive monopoly? It has the power to tell all hardware vendors how to make their products or they will suffer the consequences dictated by Microsoft.
Google, Apple, Facebook, et.al. are comical sideshows by comparison.
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We've known this since the Windows 3.1 days, where VARs had to install the operating environment on a per-processor basis, if they wanted to get the licenses at a discounted price.
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It is. You can blame that idiot Thomas Penfield Jackson for making sure Microsoft paid no penalty for this.
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Because people are free to not give a shit what Microsoft wants to put on a keyboard.
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My keyboard has a "control" key there. I don't recall ever using it. Does anyone use the right control key?
I doubt I would use the "copilot" key but in that spot I'm not losing anything
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Yes, in Telnet, for Ctrl ]
Every time
Also for Ctrl +, Ctrl - and Ctrl 0 in browsers, to zoom in and out and back to normal size.
(and to go to the last browser tab with Ctrl 9)
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Yes, I play two games that use that key.
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Ctrl-O and Ctrl-L for loading, Ctrl+P pops up in a lot of various applications, and a lot of older software likes to use Ctrl+ -/+ and [/] for various functions since those key combinations weren't generally pre-claimed by Windows.
Plus of course shift-ctrl+arrow keys and home/end/etc navigation for text editing, and Ctrl+Scroll Lock for KVM schenanigans. Right control is pretty critical to anyone who uses a computer for anything other than typing letters to grandma or typing in an IDE.
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That's not true. I coded using emacs for many years. I just always use my left hand for all the modifiers (control, shift, alt).
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It's entirely true, because functionally you're still just typing letters to grandma in a single program of choice. It's just that your letters to grandma are formatted in a very specific way. Try using a wider variety of programs and you'll quickly find how vital right-Ctrl is.
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Or it's the other way around. The vast majority of programs treat the left and right control, alt, shift as identical, and some niche programs treat them differently.
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Yes. Most people have two hands, and whenever they're entering a control combo with a key on the left side of the keyboard, they'd prefer not to contort their left hand into an awkward chord. They take advantage of their free right hand to press Ctl.
This is the same reason that there are two shift keys and two Alt keys.
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Every person who ever used a VT3270 emulation knows EXACTLY what the right ctrl key is for.
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I frequently use it with pgup/pgdn to cycle through tabs and also with the arrow keys, so I would defininetly miss the right Control key. I could do without the Windows or Menu key however.
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I use the windows key a lot now, but only the left one
windows - L for lock
control-windows-(arrow left or right) to switch virtual desktops
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by paul_engr ( 6280294 ) on Thursday January 04, 2024 @09:47AM (#64130931)
Might as well have a clippy or cortana button-
My keyboard already has that. Though it share fn F9
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They should be finding ways to reduce the number of keys, this is going in the whole wrong direction.
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I don't think they should. The standard layout has been around for so long, and so much hardware and software has been built around it, removing established keys is always going to backfire somewhere. Like when Logitech removed the Scroll Lock key because supposedly nobody uses it anymore, and a lot of KVM switches started working, some software became unusable, and the Excel wizards shouted in anguish.
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Stopped working, of course.
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I have two KVM switches that use the scroll lock key: pressing scroll lock twice gets an audible beep then you can press either 1 or 2 to switch between the KVM inputs.
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Why don't we just remove the 'z' character and get Americans to adopt UK English.
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One of the constant irritations I have with windows is that certain keys switch keyboard focus in annoying ways. Ctrl and Shift are (mostly) fine, you hold it and press another key to do a shortcut and if you change your mind or hit it by accident, pressing and releasing the modifier key on its own does nothing. This is good. But Alt and Windows are IMHO *wrong*. Go for Win+r for run, change your mind, too bad now you're in the start menu and everything you type is in the search box. Alt? Menus.
Now, don't get me wrong, I like keyboard navigation for menus, but the shortcut key shouldn't be tapping Alt. On macs it's Ctrl-F2. Can't hit that by accident.
So this copilot key seems like even more annoyance and a return to the glory days of '95 where an accidental hit of the windows key crashes whatever full screen program you're using. Sure, I don't expect it to crash anything, but it'll certainly get in the way.
And just for completeness, even though I said Ctrl+Shift are "fine", I think we've all been stuck trying to get "sticky keys" to disable after we've tapped a modifier a few times...
I don't really consider myself a windows hater, but the more I think about it I think I might hate windows...
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I use a registry hack to disable the windows key. There will be one for the Clippy key too.
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The Alt key is a function key: How much software still uses F1 - F12 keys? Windows and Microsoft software and almost everything that started 20 years ago. New software uses Alt as a chord-key [eg. Ctrl, Shift]. Before the "Alt", the "/" was used to activate the menu. Adding the Alt key did not change the software, since menus already existed. So adding "Alt", was good since it returned "/" to a data-only behaviour.
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There are other changes that would make sense.
How about replacing print screen, scroll lock, and pause/break with cut, copy, and paste? What about keys to minimize or maximize windows?
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I use the print screen key (well alt-print screen) on a daily basis to take software screen shots for documentation. The print screen key is very much in use and handy. Pressing scroll lock twice activates my KVM to switch between sources. I have not used the pause/break key however since the DOS days when I would use it to stop a running GWBASIC program.
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replacement laptop keyboards then, for every make and model that can run windows 11. or they can by me a new laptop when the start enforcing this key requirement.
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Google beat them to it with the Assistant button on Android phones, years ago. A button which has no use if you don't use Google Assistant (and I don't know anyone who does), and which, unlike all other hardware buttons, couldn't be remapped. I think they already backtracked on that, because my most recent Android phone doesn't have it anymore.
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(I know it's not the same as messing with the IBM keyboard layout, but it might have been an opportunity to learn a lesson.)
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If your product has that new key, I will not but that product at all.
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My keyboards have F1 up to F13. I use F2 to enter BIOS, what are the other keys used for ?
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Well, F10 is used to exit BIOS.
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I use Alt-F4 to close windows/exit programs many time a day -- it's a reflex, one that I don't even think about any longer. Works both in Windows and at least XFCE and many other *nix window managers.
Back when I used DOS F3 was one I used a lot at the DOS prompt (repeat last command), and F1 usually brought up help in lots of Windows programs (probably still does). I seem to remember F5 doing something useful in DOS, but I've forgotten what that was.
Scroll Lock has become useful for my KVM -- double tap p
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Alt-PrtSc captures the current window into a screenshot, it is handy.
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F1 tends to open the 'help' screen in most software.
In Windows, F2 renames a selected file.
F3 opens the 'find' area in Windows Explorer, as well as Opera and Firefox.
F4 opens the address bar drop-down menu in Windows Explorer, but its "Alt+F4" modifier is more useful as it closes most windows and applications.
F5 is a refresh in most browsers.
F10, F11, and F12 are used by some OEMs to enter BIOS or one-time boot menus.
F11 is used to full-screen most browsers. It's also used during the VMWare install process
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I have 3 still working fine, with stacked adapters for original 5-pin DIN-to-PS2, PS2-to-USB. Plus two "clones" from the same era, but their actions are not as crisp. A modern clone, with very good action, failed within months (think it was a USB connector problem).
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clap clap?
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I could see Dell and Lenovo already partnering with someone else when it comes to AI. I could see the EU telling MS you can't hard code this to your AI. It has to be user configurable.
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That Windows-Key could be really useful, if it wasn't hardwired to do something harebrained. The Arma-player in me would really welcome yet another key to use to bind some function to, but the last thing I need is yet another useless key that takes up valuable real estate on the keyboard.
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Yet another reason to stick with a normal keyboard [pckeyboard.com]
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I don't recall Microsoft 1994 keyboard having a notifications button, or a minimise all button, or a calculator button, or a lock button, all of which are present on their Surface Keyboards.
And yes they are dedicated buttons, they don't share a fn key or require holding down anything extra.
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That would have been my first guess , an "Any key" for the people who struggle with "Hit any key to continue"
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Microsoft are all in on the LLM AI push. Stunning amounts of money being spent and a huge commitment across their entire product base.
I get it, the upsides look shiny and impressive. But the downsides are still so real - the failures modes of this AI are so catastrophic and so subtle that it doesn't feel like it will take too many high profile disasters for this bubble to pop massively. I would be a nervous investor.
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