US Looks To Restrict China's Access To Cloud Computing To Protect Advanced Techn...
source link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/23/07/04/1349220/us-looks-to-restrict-chinas-access-to-cloud-computing-to-protect-advanced-technology
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US Looks To Restrict China's Access To Cloud Computing To Protect Advanced Technology
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Beijing Monday announced export restrictions on metals used in advanced chip manufacturing, days ahead of a visit to China by Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. The proposed restriction is seen as a means to close a significant loophole. National-security analysts have warned that Chinese AI companies might have bypassed the current export controls rules by using cloud services. These services allow customers to gain powerful computing capabilities without purchasing advanced equipment -- including chips -- on the control list, such as the A100 chips by American technology company Nvidia.
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Alibaba Jack Ma wish to thank the US govt for forcing US companies to give up market share without a fight!
That has worked so well for Baidu and Tencent in the past when Google and Facebook withdrawn from China.
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It might even help the CCP keep a strong grip on the Chinese people.
Right now one of the easiest ways to use Tor in China is to bypass the Great Firewall by connecting to Microsoft Azure cloud servers. The connection is indistinguishable from a normal HTTPS connection to a website hosted in their cloud, but it really goes to a Tor node and gets routed through Microsoft's internal network and out of the country.
If MS is forced to withdraw Azure from China, that will be lost.
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I wonder if there are any statistics on how Chinese people feel their government represents them, how free they feel and how hopeful they are about the future. It would be interesting to compare that to how US citizens feel about their government.
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Their feelings are surprisingly positive.
"many Chinese believe that the country’s recent economic achievements—large-scale poverty reduction, huge infrastructure investment, and development as a world-class tech innovator—have come about because of, not despite, China’s authoritarian form of government.""July 2020 polling data from the Ash Center at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government revealed 95% satisfaction with the Beijing government among Chinese citizens."
https://hbr.org/2021/05/what-t... [hbr.org]
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That's not surprising at all when the only news they are allowed to see is positive. I would be surprised if their feelings were not positive, that's the intent and power of censorship.
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Censorship doesn't put food on the table or a roof over your head. Whatever the Chinese government is doing (or not doing), the Chinese people are quite a bit better off compared to where they were 10 or 20 years ago. It's certainly a much more noticeable difference than here in the US. We'll see if the next economic downturn will shake up the Hu's grip on power. My bet is on a internal coup if power is to change hands, though China does have a long history of rebellion whenever its emperor loses the "manda
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I wonder if there are any statistics on how Chinese people feel their government represents them, how free they feel and how hopeful they are about the future. It would be interesting to compare that to how US citizens feel about their government.
Yes, there are statistics on this. The problem is that the data gathering methodology would reveal much more than the data. China is a democracy on paper with overwhelming support for the current government. Not surprisingly, non-official surveys also reveal overwhelming support. After all, expressing criticism or non-support could be interpreted as a crime, depending on how government officials choose to view things.
In contrast, in the US, expressing criticism is not only legal but is widespread and arguably a national pastime. Americans argue about politics, sports, religions, and everything. It's what we do, especially complaining about Congress, the President, and now even the Supreme Court.
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The best people to ask would be in Hong Kong. They actually had freedom but it has now been taken away. Of course it makes Winnie a very angry pooh bear that people are not happy about this.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/... [www.cbc.ca]-
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Human Rights Watch has a nice overview for you, if Winnie allows you to read it that is.
https://www.hrw.org/feature/20... [hrw.org]
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They're living in the greatest country in the world. They know because everybody always told them so. Where are you living, BTW?
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Or at least close the WWW and isolate/restrict the internet to within the USA only, close all proxies & VPNs too
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by ZipNada ( 10152669 ) on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @12:41PM (#63656120)
The US tried that with China for many years, starting with Nixon's visit. China isn't interested in the betterment of mankind, they are interested in the betterment of China. Or certain core segments of it at least.
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That pretty much sums it up.
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> The US tried that with China for many years, starting with Nixon's visit. China isn't interested in the betterment of mankind, they are interested in the betterment of China. Or certain core segments of it at least.
I think SuperDre's point is that they both need to stop using that kind of rhetoric on each other and really work on working together.
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It takes two to tango. China switched to belligerence years ago. The US can't even get them to open up military channels of communication now.
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> It takes two to tango. China switched to belligerence years ago. The US can't even get them to open up military channels of communication now.
That's an example of what now I'm saying : as long as we, China or the US, say things like you just said about the other we of course aren't working on working together.
Lets hope we are working on working together 'behind the scene' even though we both say, Chinese and US citizens too, that we can't or aren't, or that if we can't or aren't, it's the other's fault
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I'm merely stating some facts. Wishful thinking about "working together" isn't going to make China cooperate. You will notice that Blinken visited China recently, Yellen will be there in a couple of days, and there is talk of Biden visiting in the fall. Where is the reciprocation from China?
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Oh BS, also the 70's was a different time, cold war was still raging. And the US also doesn't give a damn about humankind and also only thinks about themselves.
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Maybe you're just wrong.
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Around 1990 there was a general consensus that all world governments were headed towards liberal democracy. The Berlin Wall had fallen. The Soviet Union had disintegrated. China would soon open up markets to the world. The west poured massive amounts of investment into Russia and China under the banner of globalization. You don't go to war with your customers, after all.
Well, over 30 years later now it's quite clear that was a ruse. China and Russia have doubled down on authoritarianism and human rights
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Except, China didn't take Hong Kong's freedom away, it still has a lot of freedom, but is now back under china rule. There really is no invading Taiwan as officially Taiwan is still part of China, most countries in the world don't acknowledge Taiwan as its own country, so China is fully in its right to take the reigns back if they want to.
And in regard to russia, russia answered the call of the self declared 2 states in the east of the Ukraine to protect them from Kyiv, and the war is mainly in those two st
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With the never ending SMT / Hyper Threading issues Intel is having, and to a lesser extent other CPUs are having. Probably a good idea.
But I still think you are crazy to put anything that is highly sensitive on "the cloud".
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by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 04, 2023 @10:51AM (#63655940)
The CCP is about as close to the Nazi Party as we have in this era so if you're wondering how people and corporations could have possibly worked with the Nazis, just watch how they work with China today
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These are very interesting times for those who study propaganda because it is all out there on the web. You can see what China is putting out to its own people and you can see what the West (mostly US) is putting out AND see the reactions and reception to it. It's amazing how well it still works with both P.O.V out there on the web. Furthermore you can go back in time 12 years to see there was very little of it, it just sprung up like an out of control weed with the new cold war. old: https://news.slashdot. [slashdot.org]
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Indeed. People still being stupid and falling for fabrications. The Big Lie is not only alive and well, it is doing better and better.
It _really_ is always the same crap with the human race.
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You have no idea what the Nazi party did. China has problems and the morality of their government is pretty questionable (but so is that of the US government, look for some recent Supreme Court decisions for some examples), but the Nazis were supremacists that pretty much wanted and tried to kill or enslave everybody not part of their Master Race. That is a bit different from China.
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The Supremes are also part of the US Govt. As a whole, the three sections of government help to keep everyone "honest", with balances of power tilting back and forth as time goes on.
For the people who believe "US Govt" means Joe Biden, and how he got "slapped down" means he attempted dictatorship, I can't recall any US president who did not get unfavorable decisions from the court from time to time (Biden may get more decisions against him at this time because the "non-political" Supreme Court is packed 6-3
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They're not banning Americans using Chinese cloud computing.
They're banning Chinese using American cloud computing.
The Chinese may retaliate in kind, but I doubt it, because that would be dumb. It would make more sense to retaliate in some other way that actually serves them.
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What cheaper alternatives? This order has nothing to do with commodity x86 systems and everything to do with custom AI processors like Nvidia's A100. Considering there are already restrictions, both governmental and economic, on getting large quantities of those processors, where exactly do you think China has access to cloud versions?
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Hahaha, you mean preventing China from getting access to state-of-the-art Artificial Stupidity is supposed to hold them back or something? What a complete and utter fail! This can only make them stronger.
Incidentally, on the research side you do not need all those accelerators. They may make things a bit cheaper, but that is it. All this will do is getting China an edge in optimization, because they will invest more effort into it.
Yes, I am aware these two things I stated are not really compatible with each
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Somehow the US thinks hurting US companies is a way to slow down China? This has to be the most misplaced policy Iâ(TM)ve ever seen. Does the government think they are at actual war with China? I canâ(TM)t see any other reason for this.
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The idea isn't that China can't catch up. Of course China can build their own cloud data centers. That is something China can do.
The hope and intent of these policies is to allow supply chains and industries a chance to spring up in other countries (like India). Actually I think Mexico is right on the edge of springing up and becoming a technological super power as well. They have a lot of people with skills now.
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So, how would this prohibition be enforced? Politely ask cloud customers whether they are Chinese, and of course, at the same time reminding those customers that honesty is the best policy? What if Chinese companies ask non-Chinese companies to run their workloads for them on US cloud providers? Well, the cloud providers could be required to ask if their customers are working in proxy for Chinese companies. But what if there are several indirection hops between Chinese companies and US cloud providers?
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Do they really think the Chinese do not have their own clouds? Are these people completely stupid? Alternatively, this whole "War on China" is basically a scam. Come to think of it, this sounds more and more likely. Ye old "find enemy on the outside to distract from domestic screw-ups".
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Wag the Dog.
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Honestly, US and China should just get a room, the sexual tension is obvious, and annoying, to everyone.
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It's not the US and China, it's the US and the CCP.
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The Republicrats must be envious that the CCP can openly be a single party in power...
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Why restrict them? This would be the perfect opportunity to salt a special set of training data with wrong answers.
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Anyone to remember the cryptography export restrictions of the Clinton era? Did not work either.
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You can't keep a whole nation, especially one with as many world ties as China, down and technologically contained by playing trade war whack a mole. The only thing you do is reduce economic activity for everyone and inspire bad blood that probably can eventually turn into a shooting war
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