Gen-Z Is Taking Courses On How To Send An Email and What To Wear In the Office,...
source link: https://slashdot.org/story/23/06/19/2234209/gen-z-is-taking-courses-on-how-to-send-an-email-and-what-to-wear-in-the-office-according-to-a-wsj-report
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Gen-Z Is Taking Courses On How To Send An Email and What To Wear In the Office, According to a WSJ Report
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Some universities have also stepped in to bridge the gap. Michigan State University's director of career management, Marla McGraw, told the Journal that companies need to be more direct when it comes to telling new hires what to wear and how to act in the office. The school now requires many of its business majors to take classes that foster soft skills like how to network in person. The Journal reported that one course breaks down a networking conversation by reminding students to pause after they introduce themselves in order to let the other person say their name, as well as respond to signs the other person might be looking to end the conversation. While it's common for companies to host onboarding sessions that cover office dynamics like attire and rules for interpersonal relationships, some experts say younger employees need these reminders now more than ever.
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I would hope not.
I don't work at a particularly modern company and nobody wears a suit.
The general attire is button up shirt and non jeans.
When the attire was a suit, nobody needed a class.
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I used to work in an office that was very laid back. I usually wore chinos/jeans and a t-shirt + hoodie, which was decidedly upscale for the office. Anyway, on one random day I wore shorts and my boss came in and said "You need to dress for the position you aspire!" and at that exact moment our CTO walked by in board shorts, hoodie, and slides. I just pointed at him and went back to work.
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If they've been attending virtual classes or meetings, this shouldn't be a problem. Tailored suit jacket over an Italian fitted shirt. Expensive class tie. Bermuda shorts and flip-flops.
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I understood Bermuda shorts and flip-flops, but the rest... admit it, you were inventing words, right?
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You just gotta shake the cup well enough to mix the ingredients.
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This entire article is stupid. Consultants have throughout all of history coached their employees on presentation in office environments and communicating in an influencial way. Every generation working for a consultant will have experienced this. This has nothing to do with GenZ or returning to office.
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Exactly, what's next, consultants taking Powerpoint courses?
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Clicked into the comments section to make this very point.
Fresh graduates, whether out of a BS, MS or PhD program, all need remedial lessons in the specifics of day-to-day functioning in the work place. Colleges are different from other workplaces, and employers have known this for decades.
Yes, there will always be those managers who act surprised, either because they are too stupid to figure out the pattern, or because they like engaging in cross-generational hazing rituals that begin with "kids these d -
Exactly. Military members go through an exit course before getting out and it covers stuff like this. There's even a dress code for the class (business casual) so the junior enlisted don't accidentally go to an interview in an Affliction tshirt.
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Not knowing that stuff won't matter after a while. They'll learn.
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biggest thing for email is the diff between To:, Cc:, and Bcc. The rest is cake.
Oh and webmail sucks.
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If you misclick, just do another reply-all and apologize for using reply-all. You can't go wrong with that.
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He said, while pressing "Reply-All".
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>> biggest thing for email is the diff between To:, Cc:, and Bcc. The rest is cake.
>> Oh and webmail sucks.
> He said, while pressing "Reply-All".
Take me off your mailing list pls
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UNBSUBSCRIBE; STOP;
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You forgot:
- proper quoting when replying
- avoiding overly long lines
both of which happen a lot more often than confusion between To, Cc and Bcc.
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doing some weird dance moves to convey the message...
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Sorry, learning to dance your name in your Waldorf school isn't a skill that's transferable into real life.
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It's funny how the pandemic fucked things up for all generations.
So apparently 3 years of inadequate social interaction simulacrum through the internet at a crucial age turned a certain younger demographic into socially inadapted individuals.
And yet this gen-Xer too is impacted: throughout my life, I've always been to evening schools, to learn new things. I've always considered continued education to be an important part of any adult's life. After I left University in the early 90's, I never spent a single year out of school, regardless of what I chose to learn.
But not this year: all the classes I'm interested in that I haven't been to yet at community college take place online. Yep, they decided that reopening a physical classroom and asking a teacher and students to physically gather there was too much bother for certain curriculums such as language classes.
And you know what? I don't know how younger people ever managed to learn anything with a headset and a webcam in front of a fucking computer screen with the teacher and fellow students appearing in tiny tiles, with the jerky video and unbearable audio lag, but I sure can't. I need real 3D people to interact with in real-time in front of me. Learning is like sex: it's just not the same in front of a screen with your dick in your hand. I need the real thing. And in any case, I can't stand more than an hour of crappy laggy audio without getting a massive headache. So it's just not a viable option for me anyway, even if I did make the effort to learn how to learn online.
So for the first time in decades, I will have learned nothing in 2023, and it looks like 2024 will be more of the same. I'm just not compatible with post-pandemic, modern teaching methods and I feel super-sad about it.
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I don't know how younger people ever managed to learn anything with a headset and a webcam in front of a fucking computer screen with the teacher and fellow students appearing in tiny tiles, with the jerky video and unbearable audio lag, but I sure can't.
The first thing you should do is adjust your group chat settings so you aren't seeing all your classmates. If you're there for a lecture you aren't going to learn anything seeing the bored expressions of everyone else, and in a live classroom your attention would be on the speaker, so you wouldn't be looking at everyone else all the time either.
The audio thing is another issue, though. Maybe a case of internet problems on the instructor's end? I did work from home, which included occasional video meetings, on a 50 down/5 up service plan with no issue. I think not using wi-fi for my work PC connection is a big part of that.
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âoeAnd you know what? I don't know how younger people ever managed to learn anything with a headset and a webcam in front of a fucking computer screen with the teacher and fellow students appearing in tiny tiles, with the jerky video and unbearable audio lag, but I sure can't.â
I had to watch one of my kids finish kindergarten via Zoom. âoeZoomâ and âoekindergartenâ only belong in the same sentence if youâ(TM)re talking about zooming around a kindergarten playground. The
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I hope we never have to go through that shitstorm again.
1. This was expected by the relevant experts for quite a while. It came _late_.
2. This type of situation will repeat again and again.-
They blew their wad and showed themselves to have little idea how to really handle such a situation. Just lock things down endlessly. The compliance next time is going to be low, same as it was toward the end this time.
Which will really suck if it's super-airborne-Ebola next time. The steps taken this time might be useful against that, but getting pandemic round 2 going is going to require a lot of guns pointed at a lot of citizens. And will disappear when the guns go out of sight.
Maybe in a generation
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Speak for yourself.
I am half a century old, started studying when internet wasn't much of a thing. I hated the classroom, the defined times, having to follow the wirting on the board, write things down, deal with distractions all around - people talking and being asses, as only people can be. Ended up a mediocre student, graduated with a mediocre GPA.
15 years later, when online education became a thing, I went for my masters degree. 100% online, no classroom time, self-directed, hands on, no distractions (though there was a lot of group work - all online, and this was before Zoom was much of a thing, so written communication). Best few years of my life. Loved the experience, 4.0 GPA (and it was a better school and a tougher program).
So, just because you can't (or don't know how to) study online - does not mean online education is in any way inferior. In fact, I claim that, to the contrary, it is superior in all aspects.
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I didn't claim it was bad. I said *I* couldn't work with it. And apparently, now youngsters who did work with it just fine can't adapt back to normal pre-pandemic socializing canons.
Perhaps it's time to revise how humans should interact with one another. I doubt it, but... why not: if people are meant to socialize through a cat6 cable now, it's a skill too I guess. All I said was, it's not for me, and apparently the old ways are not for younger humans anymore either.
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And I can't work in a "normal" classroom. Never worked for me. Guess what: People are different.
And until about 3 years ago, "we" were always told to just suck it up and deal with it. Payback's a bitch. Suck it up and deal with it.
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that is quite literally the point he is making - stop trying to argue and read and understand what he's saying.
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pfffft. I'm just as fucked up now as I was before the bug spank you very much.
Nobody even noticed neither. My Gen X cloak of invisibility must still be working.
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How old do you think gen X is? You sound about 70.
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Car analogies on this site.
You need to think about your audience.
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Learning is like sex. It works best in front of a screen by yourself.
I absolutely get the analogy that guy makes, what's your problem?
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No. You just got spoon fed by a shock headline. Consultants have given their staff those courses throughout all of history. Heck I don't even work for a consultant and I was put though training like that over a decade ago.
This isn't GenZ or Covid. This is some "reporter" being suddenly surprised by something he didn't know companies did.
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You say "socially inadapted", I say "dropping the pointless charade".
Quite frankly, I never understood the need to play dress-up. Not as a child, and sure as all hell not as an adult.
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It's not new. Back when I was at school/college they taught us how to write a formal letter, and several of the kids were surprised that they needed to write "dear" on the first line, or put the recipient's address at the top.
Same with dress code. Kids are born knowing nothing, and they either pick it all up through experience or they are taught it. Everyone's experience is different so some of them will inevitably have gaps in their knowledge. No big deal, it's always been that way.
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VeryFluffyBunny has entered the meeting.
VeryFluffyBunny:...
VeryFluffyBunny has left the meeting.
VeryFluffyBunny has entered the meeting.
VeryFluffyBunny:...
VeryFluffyBunny has left the meeting.
VeryFluffyBunny has entered the meeting.
VeryFluffyBunny:...
VeryFluffyBunny has left the meeting.
VeryFluffyBunny has entered the meeting.
VeryFluffyBunny:...and that's why this meeting should've been a f**king email. Now, who's up for going out for a nice friendly drink this evening? Oh sorry, I forgot. You -
People have been doing remote learning since the 70s. It works, if it is done correctly. For example, https://www.open.ac.uk/ [open.ac.uk]
There are huge quantities of well-presented remote learning resources out there. Don't let one college's poor best attempt put you off.
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Luckily for me, I don't have to adapt. My resume is thick enough that I don't have to run after work, rather the opposite. Continued education is something I choose (or rather chose) to do for myself. It was a plus in my resume when I was younger, for sure. But now, whatever I learn in evening classes has no bearing on my career.
As for the dying, it's gonna happen whether I adapt or not:)
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Same here, because with enough skills and a solid track record getting a job isn't life or death anymore- it's just me relaxing for a week or so while offers come my way.
Like you, my resume speaks for itself. Employers want what we have and we don't have to be taught what to do or how to do it. We sure as shit don't have to be taught how to send an email, lol.
So yeah, I haven't chased a job in years; usually I end up grilling the interviewer and quizzing them about what they can offer me, not the other way
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The best job interview I conducted with a colleague was an 80 year-old who had applied for one of the underpaid junior C++ programmer positions my company was offering, ca. 2000. The guy had a resume as thick as an arm - he was a retired researcher, professor at BYU, and had a whole slew of impressive past positions and job titles - and came to the interview in a brand-new, top-of-the-line Lexus.
So we interviewed him, he ticked all the boxes of course. At some point, my colleague told him he was grossly overqualified for the job. He replied "Okay, take the qualifications that interest you and ignore the others." Hmm, touche...
At some point, I just popped the question: I asked him why a guy like him with a career like his, quite obviously well-to-do, came out of retirement and applied for a first-job-after-graduation kind of position with a rock-bottom salary.
He replied "My wife bores the hell out of me and I need to get out of the house, else she's gonne drive me crazy. So instead of doing something pointless, I figured I'd rejoin the workforce and do something easy and useful.":)
It was a good reason after all. We liked his candid reply. So we hired him. He was one of the best employees we had: he worked more slowly than everyone else, but the work was always done well and on time - as opposed to the rest of us younger engineers pulling all-nighters and spewing high volumes of very poorly thought-out code. Quite humbling.
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This is what happens extroverts and salespeople feel uncomfortable. They create ways for other people to be wrong so they don't have to look inwards.
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Exactly. Form over function, the choice of those that could not create function if their lives depended on it.
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I have seen 'professionals' with spelling, grammar, and even the general composition skills of a teen who only communicates via SMS. The employment pool must be really bad for people like that to hold down a job where they routinely communicate with the public.
My kids... are not so great at it either, but they can at least get the job done when they have to even if they resent having to put in the effort. Unless your child has a learning disability, letting them graduate into adult life unable to dress and speak appropriately is YOUR fault.
The school dropped the ball? OK, why didn't YOU pick it up? Your kids should be pretty much your highest priority in life. It's not their fault you decided to have them, it is your responsibility to turn them into self-sufficient adults.
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I have a ninth grader who hates to write emails. She says it's because email is supposed to be in formal written English, whereas most of the writing kids do nowadays is informal. Just emailing a teacher to ask a question about an assignment is a very stressful experience for these kids.
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Try making her templates for different kinds of messages. If nothing else, it should help with the uncertainty.
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No, the hiring criteria are really bad. I am constantly boggling at the kind of people who have jobs while so many people are unemployed. I am absolutely 100% certain that the best applicant is not getting the job even 50% of the time, in basically every area. Retail, mechanics, servers, you name it and the person has been chosen on some specious basis probably designed primarily to keep wages low.
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Did the WSJ start taking advice from the NYT Pitchbot?
There's always been a handful of silly and stupid consultancy companies like this. They're mostly run by somebody's brother in law. I got stuck taking some of these "courses" over my career and they're older than dirt. The were mandatory and infuriating because we knew they cost the company thousands of dollars that could've been paid to us as bonuses.
Years later I learned what a nepo-baby was and that these "courses" were just somebody's brother in law or buddy's son.
So tired of corporate media "journalism".-
I'm pretty sure this is tradition porn for the inductor set. See? You do hafta do all that stuff that we also had to do (for no reason, other than to appear to join "the club" and belong, just like us.) In other words, we don't value individual or disruptive thinking. Anyways, all us old birds knew you'd fall into line. Consider carefully if working for an outfit like this is worth the "prestige."
Bit of windowdressing to me. Wear clothes, don't smell, don't have a hard on (for some reason that came up earlier in the thread), do the job right and on time. -
I find it very unlikely (although not entirely unbelievable) anyone would buy a class on how to avoid eye contact in an elevator. Or have a conversation. There are very few teenagers who haven't leaned to talk all four legs off an Arcurian Megadonkey.
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A big irritation for me is that many reply to a complicated email with a few words at the top. It can be hard to work out which question they are replying "yes" to. So: please, please trim your reply to only quote enough of what you are replying to to give enough context, then put your reply underneath it.
This discussion [w3.org] is old and some links are broken but it is worth reading.
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Agree.
A big irritation for me is that many reply to a complicated email with a few words at the top. It can be hard to work out which question they are replying "yes" to. So: please, please trim your reply to only quote enough of what you are replying to to give enough context, then put your reply underneath it.
This discussion [w3.org] is old and some links are broken but it is worth reading.
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That's by no means limited to Gen-Z. You have an even larger portion of Gen-X and older who treat email like some sort of snail mail system where they write elaborate addresses and salutations and whatnot.
Learn to cut your verbal diarrhea and limit yourself to the essentials! "Hi" is an acceptable first line (if you have that pressing urge to include non-information in your mail at all). A signature that informs me of your phone number may be useful, but I sure as fuck don't need your mail address there. Gu
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Really?
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Just... talk... to... eachother
God, how many times I dragged young teammembers from behind there PCs to talk to eachother instead of chatting through mail, jira,.... How many times I solved a big hurdle by just calling the customer.
Informal communication with no records... loosens the tongues, gets creativity flowing, builds relations.
If you do not like this message, you may want to reflect on it. Break out of your comfort zone, start with a few times a week. -
Cargo pants, t-shirt, comfortable shoes of your preferred style. You're done.
Now, Gen-Z-ers, if you've found this online tutorial helpful - send $20 to 93 Escort Wagon c/o Slashdot.
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I'm in security. Not management, the tech side of things. If you show up in a suit here, you're wrong here. Try security management. They live on bullshitting people into thinking they're competent. We have to be competent here.
If you feel the need to hide behind a smart attire, I have no use for you. I want you to be confident enough in your skills that you're absolutely convinced that your skills and your skills alone will tell me that I want you. If you don't have that confidence, don't bother applying.
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Oddly enough, your post supports the premise of the topic - there are social norms in an organization that must be met in order to be accepted. Those norms differ from situation to situation, and learning them is part of being accepted and successful.
A lot of posters are reacting to the "suit and tie," which is not surprising considering/.'s demographic; but are missing teh underlying message.
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The underlying message is that if you have to hide behind form, I don't really expect a lot of function from you.
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If you google âoegen zâ youâ(TM)ll see that there is now a torrent of articles and videos with clickbait titles that smear younger people - especially âoegen zâ folks whom they claim are âoelonelyâ and canâ(TM)t conduct themselves properly in âoenormal social interaction.â
It turns out that most of these articles and videos are just using the ageist verbiage as clickbait to try to appeal to older folks to click on the media. âoeWow, a link that will take
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I'm Gen X and I'm terrible at in-person communication, eye contact, conversation pauses, and professional dress. Working remotely has been a godsend for me for these reasons as well as many others.
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At the same time companies want everyone back in the office because everything is so much better when people naturally mingle and talk to each other...
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This could be an opportunity to educate people in clothing suitable for nowadays.
The "suit" and tie are hangovers from Revolutionary France. By wearing a 3-piece suit, you were distancing yourself from the aristocracy whose clothing style was closer to the Renaissance. In fact, the, 3-piece, suit was hugely more practical and affordable than its predescessors.
Wearing a suit was part of a survival strategy in a turbulent time. We need to take a similar step. Wearing a jacket and a tie does not a professi
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The topic is low-hanging fruit, but WSJ is just low.
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I mean, "how to send an email" is a bit nebulous. I'm 41 - when I went to college everyone knew HOW to send an email but we still had portions of a our technical communications class explaining email etiquette and how to main professional demeanor in email communications.
I highly doubt Gen-Z kids are having trouble figuring out where the send button is . . .
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Let's go over the summary points:
1. NO PRONOUNS
2. No blabbing
3. No "Inspirational quotes"
4. No slang / swearing (unless appropriate)
5. ALWAYS digitally sign an email with PGP
6. USUALLY attach the public PGP key
7. RECOMMENDED encrypt the email with PGP.
8. Don't explain a concept instead of attaching a link.
9. NEVER Use the Outlook proprietary format.
10. NEVER Include additional tracking, of any kind.
11. USUALLY ask for a read receipt
12. ALWAYS have a tasteful and short signature.
13 NEVER Use HT -
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Okay then. So it's okay if I turn up at the office in birthday suit with a raging boner then? I'm a horny nudist, but all that matter is that I'm really good at my job and I can do my work accuractely and on time, right?
If you want to live in society, you have to respect some societal norms. It's not all about you.
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Well it's a good job you took classes to tell you it's not OK to turn up at work nude with a boner then. Because you did that right?
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Mind installing a bigger one? Then we can at least use it as a hook to hang my coat.
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I wouldn't care. I'm not visually prejudiced.
But if you were to touch me without permission, i would break your knees and call an ambulance for you afterwards.
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Rosco was using Reductio ad absurdum [wikipedia.org] to disprove dmay34's claim that getting your work done was the only thing that matters. It is a form of argument that has been around since at least the ancient Greeks, so nothing to do with conservatives.
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Thank you. I often despair at people's replies here. But some get it.
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He thought they meant "NO-DRESS code".
It's one of those things you get confused by when there are no emojis....
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I love how stupid you have to be to think OP's "you don't need to wear a suit to be good at your job" means "I can show up naked and sexually harass my coworkers".
This is why they need the classes, because dumbfucks like you exist.-
He used an extreme example to make a point. It's a valid response.
"No Dress Code" means lack of any restrictions, which means pink rabbit-shaped fluffy flip-flops are fine, fishnet T-shirts are fine, and so on.
I have some black metal T-shirts which I could wear in the office and offend pretty much anyone, but, hey, "no dress code" would allow me to do so.Point is, people are different. They are used to wearing this or the other, they feel comfortable wearing that at home, so they might not realize it's not
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Conservatives do seem to talk about raging boners a lot.
Well...that's not necessarily a bad thing.
I mean, hopefully...they'll repopulate and overwhelm the liberal houses....
I mean, with liberals pushing to cut off their childrens' body parts and take hormones that will pretty much negate any chance of them reproducing, while also promoting homosexuality...
At some point, they won't be reproducing enough to keep up with conservative house holds and, well....maybe the US can get back more to normal again.
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If work involves any sort of negotiation with other people or competing parties (and face it, this is all jobs, especially if there is a disagreement on the right way to get something done) then these skills are of a very high value. Finding common ground is sometimes the only way to move forward, and presenting well, having good manners, and showing an interest in what other people are doing is part of that.
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I'm a professional engineer and project manager. Probably 60% of my job is meetings with various outside parties of one kind or another.
My personal "uniform" everyday is a black polo shirt with a company logo, blue jeans and merril shoes.I've been doing this for 14 years. Literally no one cares what I'm wearing.
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That company logo shows you respect your own company and that you are (maybe) following their dress code. It goes further than you think.
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The last office job I worked, they wouldn't let us wear polos. The owner thought it looked "tacky" and as we were in IT migration, he thought it made us look "like the Geek Squad instead of professionals".
That was fine for most things, but when you're trying to pull racks in 90 degree heat in a deactivated datacenter where they also shut off the AC... it gets ridiculous. Climbing in attics of old-ass office parks to replace Cat5 with Fiber, digging through elevated floors to find a power point... just no -
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In my experience, the 'rock-star' engineers get away with anything. And the jeans and t-shirt is the 'uniform' of the sensationally talented - so someone turning up like that to big meetings can be reassuring.
The problem is that you have to back up your clothing choices with actions.
It can be difficult for junior members to know that just because '2 brains Sarah' can get away with something, that they should not necessarily give it a try.
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In the eternal words of an ex-boss of mine, "I can't take a security engineer serious who shows up in a suit and tie. If he thinks he needs to blind me with a nice attire, he can't be worth jack".
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Security engineers in suits are just lost compliance assholes
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So your ex-boss exhibiting the same bias that others are complaining about here - judging someone by what they wear and not what they can do? Why should the boss care what the engineer wears if they can get the job done; and not react negatively because someone does not conform to the attire norms of the group?
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Government employees at some places are also anti-suit and tie, mostly because it means "salesperson who will waste their time" to them.
Dress codes are more complicated than just wear the nicest shit you can.
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If it's easy to swindle you out of 10 millions by wearing a nice suit, you get what you deserve.
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My CEO is dealing with billions. It is very rare for him to wear anything but blue jeans. I think he wants to give the impression that the company has a lot of growth yet still.
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If most people though that way, the world would look differently and probably a lot better. Instead it is about pretense, projecting an image, making the right claims, virtue signalling, etc. etc. There are very few actual pragmatists in the world. The rest dearly loves their meaningless rituals because it is all they "understand".
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They are all over the place. They are the person next to you. They're the person moderating your post, making your food and often the person deciding on your raises.
Serenity is acquired by realizing they aren't just speed bumps to slow you down. They could have value, both in the educating them to be less insecure and potentially offering some input to you. Turns out a world full of geeks would probably have bad graphic design, for one thing.
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- Full suit.
- Suit with no tie.
- Sport coat and slacks.
- Sport coat and jeans.
- Polo and slacks.
- Polo and jeans.
- T-shirt and kilt.
Each has its place. Each also denotes a level in the business/social hierarchy. Most people find comfort with dressing at a certain level and less comfort in the levels above and possibly below. It is easy to dismiss the importance of dress until you start digging into the psychological effects it has on personal interaction.
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I did knew you were an idiot, now you have proven it. Nice.
Of course, such a statement can only be made by somebody that cannot even recognize the quality of work of others.
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I did knew you were an idiot,
... now you have proven it. Nice.
As I was saying, a sloppy appearance implies sloppy work.
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This is so American it hurts.
Don't forget your white sneakers and bad haircut.
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Haircut? Why would you cut your hair?
Ok, granted, once it's long enough that washing takes longer than the time investment to have it cut... but then again, beard trimmers work on heads, too. Plus, once you're old enough, nature takes care of that problem anyway.
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Finally a generation that doesn't feel like form is more important than function?
I could accept that.
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Most call centres don't have dedicated phone consultants anymore. It's now considered the secondary task above handling live chat or emails so by phoning you are disturbing someone from the task at hand and preventing them from closing cases and keeping their numbers high. And there's a good chance the bosses don't mind if you feel you are receiving poor service, as a phone user they'd probably rather lose you as a customer but the law requires they have a manned phone line so they continue to operate it.
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