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GM Announces It Will Also Adopt Tesla's NACS Connector, Joining Ford - Slashdot

 1 year ago
source link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/06/08/2134259/gm-announces-it-will-also-adopt-teslas-nacs-connector-joining-ford
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GM Announces It Will Also Adopt Tesla's NACS Connector, Joining Ford

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GM has confirmed that it will adopt Tesla's North American Charging Standard (NACS) for its future electric vehicles, following in the footsteps of Ford. Electrek reports: This is likely the next step in a domino effect that should solidify NACS as the new charging standard for electric cars in North America. When Tesla announced last year that it opened up its proprietary charging connector to try to make it the industry standard in North America, we thought it might be too little too late, despite agreeing that Tesla's plug was a much superior design than the current CCS standard. However, we were proven wrong last month when Ford announced that it will integrate the NACS in its future electric vehicles.

GM CEO Mary Barra confirmed that General Motors will also adopt NACS with the help of Tesla in future electric vehicles. Barra made the announcement with Tesla CEO Elon Musk on Twitter. She said that the first vehicles with the plug will come in 2025 and like Ford, GM EV owners will all have access to Tesla's Supercharger network starting in 2024 with a CCS to NACS adapter. Like Ford, GM's Bara referenced the more efficient design of Tesla's connector and the "robustness" of Tesla's Supercharger network as reasons to adopt the standard. Barra said in a statement: "Our vision of the all-electric future means producing millions of world-class EVs across categories and price points, while creating an ecosystem that will accelerate mass EV adoption. This collaboration is a key part of our strategy and an important next step in quickly expanding access to fast chargers for our customers. Not only will it help make the transition to electric vehicles more seamless for our customers, but it could help move the industry toward a single North American charging standard."

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    I bet that's meant to hinder the import of European cars.

    • Re:

      There's an adapter plug available between the two - if its that minimal of a change and it becomes normal here Euro cars wouldn't care much about using that connector in their US models. They already configure cars with US specific features due to metric/imperial differences and UI language.

    • Re:

      European manufacturers could follow suit. In fact they could have been the first to adopt NACS. This is about providing your customers with a reliable charging experience, something non-Tesla charging companies have miserably failed to provide (starting from VW-owned Electrify America). If nothing else, VW never believed in their charging infrastructure (Electrify America) beyond being forced to do it (dieselgate), and again failed to recognized that the strength of your EV platform is in the ecosystem. Thi

      • Re:

        Or, Vestager will just order all cars to accept the "European Standard" or be fined.

        (Nope, I have no confidence in Eurocrats to do The Right Thing here.)

        • Pfft...If you even hint of standardizing on anything with "America" in the name of the standard, France will go apeshit. They already hate it bad enough that most of the world adopts American technologies all the time, but never adopts French ones. Recall the most recent episode:

          https://www.npr.org/2021/09/17... [npr.org]

          They were so pissed off that they even tweeted in English.

          • Re:

            Take NACS and maintain an identical parallel standard called something cumbersome but European like EEVCS (European Electric Vehicle Charging Standard) or perhaps EECVE (étendard de l'Europe de charge des véhicules électriques).

            P.S. I don't actually know French, but it's fun to pretend I do.

        • Re:

          Europe already mandated CCS2 standard for new EVs.

      • Re:

        Don't think this post could be any more ignorant if feranick tried

        • Re:

          Care to elaborate, professor?

    • Cars need to be regionalized anyways. Even between the US and Canada, cars are often slightly different (trim levels, MPH vs km/h, daylights). I don't think changing the charging port is a big deal.
      Cars in North America already need to be able to charge at 120V AC (albeit slowly, at least you can plug anywhere).

      By the way, Tesla is using CCS2 connector in Europe and probably other markets as well.

      • Re:

        "I don't think changing the charging port is a big deal."

        Not a big deal for manufacturers, but a big deal for consumers. One standard is much better than two. We have one standard, CCS1.

        "Cars in North America already need to be able to charge at 120V AC (albeit slowly, at least you can plug anywhere)."

        A feature meaningless to adoption of NACS.

        "By the way, Tesla is using CCS2 connector in Europe and probably other markets as well."

        Right, because CCS connectors are NOT inferior to NACS, not significantly.

        • Re:

          Of course, but it shows that the same car can have two versions, one of which has a NCAS port an accepting 120VAC charging, and another one with CCS2 port and charging on 200V+ AC only (in addition to DC charging, of course).

          • Re:

            NACS has noting to do with 120VAC.. What are you going on about?

        • Re:

          In what way do we have "one standard"? The majority of DC fast charging stations in the US are Tesla superchargers. And the majority of electric cars on the road are Teslas.

          So, if you're saying we have "one standard", there's a good argument that for real world applications, in the US that standard is Tesla.

          • Re:

            For some time after the iPhone came out, the majority of connectors for charging smartphones in the USA was Apple's 30-pin dock connector. Should everyone have adopted that instead of USB?

        • Re:

          We have one open standard, CCS1, and one de facto proprietary standard, NACS. In terms of both vehicles and charging stalls, the latter outnumbers the former by a fairly large margin — like 60% more stalls than all the public CCS chargers from all the other charging networks combined (and half again more cars using it as well).

          If you were talking about CCS2, I might agree, but CCS1 is awkward because of the way they grafted one plug onto a second plug. The larger a plug is, the more risk you have of

      • Re:

        >MPH vs km/h
        I see no reason why that can't be an option that can be changed by the user, just as a PC lets you change settings.

        • Re:

          Maybe at some point, but I never had a car which let me choose units. And not everything is on a display.

          • Re:

            I have owned cars with speed gauges showing two concentric graduated arcs. If I remember correctly the outer arc was MPH and the inner arc was kp/h. My current car has an analog speedometer and a digital screen in the instrument cluster, if you go into the settings menu the units can be selected. Since the computer controls the gauges and not a spinning wire from the transmission, it can use the same numbers for either unit.

            On my vehicles with analog clusters the odometer is stuck in miles. The only t

    • Re:

      Nah, Eurocars are just going to use a USB-C port.

    • The EU already uses CCS2, US is CCS1. You can't swap a car across the Atlantic and expect to charge it. Sure there are adapters, but with rated currents of 125A-150A, on a 350V-400V architecture car (eg, basically everything not i5/ev6, and maybe the porsche?) that's what, 50kW charge rate? Great if you're a Chevy Bolt, useless for anything else. Even the 800V architecture cars would only get 100kW charging, not 200+ they would from a native high spec dc fast charger.

  • If VW, Renault/Nissan and Toyota join, this will 'set the standard' regardless of what regulators (EU or otherwise) say.

    Given how much better/faster the Tesla charger works, that's A Good Thing for EV consumers.

    • Re:

      CCS will probably remain standard in the EU, as even Tesla uses it both in their cars and superchargers. There is no point in changing all that. the US will slowly adopt NACS. Japan will probably wait and see (as they are about 5 years behind).

      • Re:

        "Japan will probably wait and see (as they are about 5 years behind"

        • Re:

          They are. Show me they are not.

      • Re:

        Not just behind, Japan is doubling down on hydrogen-powered vehicle instead of EV.

    • Re:

      More likely Europe is going to remain standardized on CCS2, and a connector war where the user will be the biggest loser will happen in North America and other unregulated markets.

      • Re:

        From what I've read, NACS is easier to use and more durable. If so and it wins in the USA, that makes the users in North America the winners and the Europeans stuck with the larger, weaker, harder to handle plug the losers.

    • Re:

      "Given how much better/faster the Tesla charger works..."

      That is NONE better/faster. It is smaller, nothing else.

      • Re:

        This came up when Ford announced. I've seen testimonies from people that work on both that the NACS ports are smaller, lighter, yet more durable and easier to use.

        If true, the USA is winning this standardization war.

  • Oh, the US begins putting CCS into actual rule making [reuters.com] Tesla suddenly realizes sitting on their charger for forever was a bad idea to wait more than ten years to actually open the charger up as a standard. [tesla.com]. Like the entire reason the government initially went with CCS is because every other car maker was asking Tesla to OPEN IT UP, [insideevs.com]. But nah, Elon was under the impression he could license NACS Apple Thunderbolt style. When codification came forcing Tesla to suddenly add CCS at their stations (via their Magic Dock), "Oh wait! They can force me to do things?" And even better, it wasn't forcing. The US Government just told him they'd stop giving him subsidizes on his charge stations unless he brought in CCS.

    That's American Competition! Why pay licensing fees when you can force the ass hat trying to extort folks to open up, otherwise he won't get Government cheese? In all aspects this whole affair explains Americanism at its best. Ford/GM et al. are greedy bastards not wanting to pay licensing, Tesla is a greedy bastard getting taxpayer money AND holding out so that they can also make a side hussle out of licensing out of shit that taxpayers funded, and the Government that's surprisingly not being greedy unless you attribute that to absolute greed for exerting their ability to control companies and accepting those nice bribes that convinced them to make CCS part of the standard. Oh then there's the taxpayers that'll still need to pony up $35k for an EV car. Don't get me wrong, the tool isn't the bad guy here. I love EVs. It's the players that make this a shit show.

    • Re:

      Elon wins regardless. "open up" just means make it compatible. He can still charge a premium for this network of chargers he had the vision to build. About time he can monetize it. It is textbook capitalism. Nobody else was building a charging network like his at the time. He was "crazy" and "a fool".. Who's laughing now?

      Regardless, glad to see there is a defacto standard taking hold. Evolution. Nice.

    • Re:

      I agree with alot of what you posted here, I think you hit why we're here today with tis pretty well, but this..

      Is there any justification to that? CCS is an open, IEC sanctioned, published standard with 0 qualms about ownership, patents or fees. It already had EU approval, it's the obvious choice with the best alternative being a proprietary design with even today, waht I might call slightly hazy legal ground (unless Tesla has put it to an open license or IEC publishing).

      Choosing this design is the actual

  • Well glad to hear GM is on board, because if I wanted a car with a decent charging network AND Apple CarPlay. I had zero options.

    Now at least there is one.

    • Re:

      is that a joke? GM is phasing out carplay and android auto starting next year

      • Re:

        Ford already made a statement that they gave up fighting arplay and android auto because of customer demand. GM is going to feel the pain of lost sales with this decision.

        • Re:

          Yeah, it's a really stupid decision on their part. CarPlay / AAuto support means I'm not stuck with their interface long after it's outdated. I will *never* purchase a vehicle without it again.

      • Re:

        Oh! I guess I got that backwards, I thought Ford was the one that dropped CarPlay...

        Which is good because I like Ford marginally better than GM... very marginally.

        Thanks for the correction.

  • I used to have great respect for Mary Barra. Now there is none.

    It is not a North American standard until these dimwits agreed to use it.

    You are screwing over those of us who bought your cars that had the approved standard plug.

    We stuck with you during the battery fire issues and didn't ask for our money back. So you reward us by decreasing the value of our cars.

    • Re:

      How does this devalue your car? There will likely be adapters for existing cars which will mean that they can use CCS and Supercharrgers, so a much larger and more reliable charging network.

  • For example, could Electrify America change all their existing stations to Tesla style? Or at least build their own? Or do they have to license the design?


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