US Proposes Requiring New Cars To Have Automatic Braking Systems - Slashdot
source link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/23/06/01/2225236/us-proposes-requiring-new-cars-to-have-automatic-braking-systems
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US Proposes Requiring New Cars To Have Automatic Braking Systems
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Automatic emergency braking systems typically use cameras, radar or both to spot vehicles, pedestrians, cyclists and other obstacles. By comparing a vehicle's speed and direction with those of other vehicles or people, these systems can determine that a collision is imminent, alert the driver through an alarm and activate the brakes if the driver fails to do so. [...] The safety agency will take comments on the rule from automakers, safety groups and the public before making it final -- a process that can take a year or more. The rule will go into effect three years after it is adopted.
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need to ban makeing this an DLC as that last thing we need an back door to remove right to repair and so they can't force an fee just to be able to use the car.
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The purpose is to make driving as unenjoyable as possible. "US" does not propose that. Your new overlords are trying to cram some automation down every American's throat that makes driving unenjoyable and removes the skill required to drive a vehicle. This is another chip away at the individual to psychologically force everyone to ride buses and trains that don't exist or to just stay home altogether.
And Slashdot's new owners are paid to force such propaganda down our throats, insisting that this is "a goo-
The only time I've ever gotten to experience anything remotely resembling "enjoyable" driving was during the Covid-19 lockdowns when the roads were mostly empty and gas was cheap. For the entirety of my adult life, driving has simply been a necessary evil as part of suburban dwelling. Driving has never been fun, it is a utilitarian chore performed out of necessity, because that city of the future my generation was promised turned out to just be a place to buy overpriced food and drinks and experience attr
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Try getting out of the city and being in a car that's actually designed to be fun. Just because it's not something you personally enjoy, does not mean others don't enjoy it.
It's government fiats like this which have wildly unobtainable goals that do nothing but make everything vastly more expensive and complicated. We can't wrap everything in bubble wrap and eliminate danger. It's far more likely that anything they attempt to do will cause more problems than it solves. This is complex and there's plenty
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Most driving is simply a pain in the ass. People are so used to it that they think it's fine but 90% is a nightmare of traffic, assholes, accidents, speed limits, cops, and boring flat streets.
I daily a 20 year-old Miata so I know you can have fun, but it usually involves going out of your way to finding empty curvy roads and breaking the law quit a bit, even in a small low-powered car.
Automatic braking isn't at all unobtainable and many cars already have it. Usually it'll sound an alarm when it detects a p
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As a driver of over 40 years I can tell you as you get older driving is not enjoyable. It might have been fun when your younger till an accident occurs and a few people you know die because of their or someone else's stupidity. I used to enjoy a manual until you have to drive it everyday in traffic. Now I look for every automated feature available and can't wait for a self driving car.
By all means have that fun car and maybe use it on a race track. Its much better than as one teen did in front of my house
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Cars are great as a hobby. You can fix up, add bolt-on mods or engineer your own crazy stuff. Driving can be fun. But for 99% of people most of the time it's just a way to get to the mall, and they need to not kill anyone when they inevitably get distracted by something shiny. There's really no reason to get mad over a pretty simple and effective [sciencedirect.com] safety feature.
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"The purpose is to make driving as unenjoyable as possible"
In 2020, a total of 35,766 fatal car accidents occurred on roadways across the United States. Another 1,593,390 crashes resulted in injuries and 3,621,681 caused property damage. In 2022 the number of deaths went up over 42,000.
Personally, I'm for anything that reduces that number.
And, just for the record, I really don't care for most of the people who "drive" for fun, as they're usually the ones speeding, passing, and swerving in and out of traffic
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And if you compare those numbers to the total number of trips taken per year, it's a very small percentage. Taking numbers that look big out of context of the total is not a good argument. It's the argument of someone that wants to control every facet of everyone else's lives.
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Hmm, i'd be careful what you wish for. The obvious route would be to disable all smart screens while the vehicle is in motion. Introduce 20 mph limits in all built up areas, 40 mph on country roads and 50 mph on multilanes.
Enforcing the above will be accomplished by various intrusive methods, none of which are rocket science.
Do you really want that?
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Cars are already becoming unaffordable. I think overall these features would save money across the entire fleet by reducing accidents but that doesn't matter to somebody making $15 an hour that needs to buy a car to get to work. If they were other options besides car ownership that were practical that would be less of an issue. But we've built our entire economy around cars and only a handful of Americans can go without one.
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Poor people are allowed to kill you with their unsafe cars because they can't afford safe cars. News at 11, comrade.
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Whose fault is it that people can't afford cars? I'm pretty sure it is your fault. You keep increasing the minimum wage and things get more and more unaffordable. Your solution? "Double down on increasing the minimum wage." How about trying to figure out ways to increase, rather than reduce, production?
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He isn't increasing the minimum wage. He is a Chinese expat living in Singapore. Look at his old posts. He used to lie a lot less about who he is.
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The government for not building up infrastructure making not necessary to own a car?
Oh, I forgot: Your country considers that "Having a public transportation system that is actually usable" is [Trigger warning: scary words!] Socialism! [/trigger] and thus not something you would allow in the Land of Freedom(tm). That's only for us evil Euro-communists.
And then, once Jeff Bezos has quadrupled his personal fortune, somehow the Invisible Hand will magically make it better for the poor people. Yes.
Somebody dra
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People are choosing to buy fancier mor expensive cars. But really there are a lot of cars that can be had for under 35,000, the inflation adjusted price of one the cheapest cars you could buy inn1980. For instance, a fully equipped Kia Forte with braking is under $30,000.
There is also insurance to think about as the total cost of ownership. I have seen lower insurance rates due to a car being very hard to steal, for example.
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Mostly that's because what you can afford has more to do with your credit score than your income level. If you have excellent credit, you can stretch out the loan until the heat death of the universe to get the monthly payment within your budget. Sure, you're paying through the nose in interest, but lots of people don't care about that. Hell, the entire concept of leasing a car is basically just pissing away all the money you're spending and that's still an incredibly popular thing to do.
Same thing happe
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I know the numbers say fancier cars are selling more, but the fleet is aging rapidly.
That probably means that people who still make good money are choosing fancier cars, but the bottom 80% are forced to make due. The lower end that your retail or restaurant worker would buy is gone, but they still need cars. So they're driving older and older cars.
I drove an old car for a long time, and it was a constant stream of problems. I had a very understanding boss and a job I could work from home as needed,
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This is essentially a software update and one more button on the dashboard as far as modern vehicles are concerned. I doubt it will move the needle as far as new car affordability goes, and as it is, the main reason the US lacks affordable new cars is because it's more profitable to sell expensive cars to the well-to-do folks.
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They won't make cars less expensive. They will make them vastly more so. Every safety feature that's been mandated since seat belts (those actually were cheap) has both added expense to manufacture cars and have increased weight making them less efficient.
It's almost as if the Lefitists in this country want to make everything they dislike too expensive for the common person so that only the wealthy elite can still afford convenience and freedom. Everyone else will be stuck on public transit and be living
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A lot of accidents are caused by forward cross-traffic collisions when crossing an intersection (9,000 deaths per year in the US, countless injuries). Very few cars seem to have safety features to address that, and the few that do seem to be inadequate. If a car can detect that somebody is about to run a stop sign or red light.. the car should be able to brake or even accelerate such that the passenger compartment is protected. I get that it might not be able to prevent the accident entirely.. but a couple seconds or even a few hundred milliseconds ought to be enough for it to save the passenger compartment. The key would be side facing cameras and radar on the bumper.
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The idea of breaking or, in particular, accelerating on imminent side impact is good. But as someone who's caught themselves actually doing it, this is one decision I would never, ever, want my car to make for me.
Too many things play a role: available emergency flight path, eye contact, pedestrians, curve-ahead etc. In this regard I'm a fairly attentive and reflexive driver, and I'll rely on that. And I don't want my car interfering with my split-second decision, e.g. break when I've decided to accelerate (
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That's how automatic braking works now. It'll sound an alarm and pre-charge the brakes. If you don't do anything, it'll engage them when the collision is (almost) unavoidable.
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If auto-brakes weren't enough to prevent a collision, or they weren't applied (due to sensor failure, local conditions, programming edge case), then who gets sued now?
The manufacturer?
The mechanic?
The driver? -
If you are at fault in a car accident then its a US5K fine for the first and a 30 license suspension. Second offense increases by US2500 and a 90 day suspension, third offense is 10k and a 6 month suspension. This is in addition to whatever civil damages are warranted.
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Ever been to a little state called New York? Like many others, it is a "no fault" state. So if you're in a collision they don't even bother to try to assign blame. You're just as culpable as the guy who hit you, even if he was breaking the law. (unless of course someone was drinking...)
So yeah, they're pretty much going the other way on this one...
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This is no accident. Drivers in NYC will prevent you from merging if you indicate your intentions with a turn signal. Both parties should be liable.
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Draconian cracking is not a good solution.
America has, largely speaking, awfully designed roads. In addition, heavy tricks and SUVs which are light trucks are exempt from many safety regulations. In addition they have poor visibility and are dangerous to others in a crash: for s some reason the safety tests only include same category collisions.
Finally the act of assigning blame to individuals prevents those problems being addressed.
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At the rate all these new addons are going, the cheapest autos will cost $200,000 brand new in today's dollars. Already new cars are too expensive and seems we are heading to be like Cuba in the 80s, everyone driving 30 year old cars.
From memory we have backup camaras, internet tracking, proposed breath analyzers now this.
I am in a 17 year old car, and I guess I will need to keep it longer, maybe never by new again. I hope the auto companies are listening.
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Given how spread out everything is and will be for the foreseeable future, something like mini autonomous busses dynamically routed to optimize user destinations with minimal transfers would likely be more optimal than other infrastructure even if it requires a dedicated lane because full self driving still won’t be solved. You need to hit a critical density before something like a light rail system is better in terms of function/cost. So given the track record we all will be riding around in 30 year
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Except Teslas can be had new for ~$35k and come standard with this technology.
The "increasing deaths" part is pedestrians and can largely be blamed on the move towards SUVs and Trucks for everything.
We're moving on from "accident mitigation" where the car sacrifices itself to save the occupants, to a system of "accident avoidance", where the goal is to not hit anything in the first place. Which is drastically cheaper. Hell, ask the military - which is cheaper: An abrams surviving an RPG hi
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$41,880 for a base model 3 [tesla.com], but otherwise your point stands.
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https://electrek.co/2023/06/01... [electrek.co]
I remembered seeing the above, vaguely. $37k. Add in some state level rebates or such...
Hell, my corolla has this tech, even if it probably isn't as capable as the legislation wants, and it's around $25k.
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Most automakers have already promised to make AEB standard [iihs.org] across 95% of their product line. They made the pledge back in 2016 [iihs.org]. It's pretty hard to make a good argument against it other than cost, but doing it across whole product lines does mean making it cheaper. It might even be a good idea to mandate it even (or especially?) on vehicles with self-driving features, as a separate backup that can override the main computer.
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And it is already mandatory in the EU.
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So instead of just steering around a pedestrian, my car applies the brakes without my knowledge, putting the car into an uncontrolled skid?! Has anyone thought this through?
When I was younger, I learned to drive safely on ice and snow. However, I also learned that applying the brakes while steering would cause a front wheel drive car to spin out of control. The problem was that I had enough traction to steer, or to brake, but not both.
This was fairly easy to learn. Instead of trying to stop on icy pavement, I'd just steer around it. But if the car itself applies the brakes without my consent or knowledge, simply steering around an obstacle (like a pedestrian) may actually cause a preventable collision. Instead of going around the pedestrian, the car would instead skid sideways and hit them broadside.
We've already seen how airbags increased the cost of vehicles without actually improving safety. Yes, airbags reduce the injury to idiots who can't be bothered to wear a seatbelt, but they do little to nothing for a properly belted driver. It is one thing for a soccer mom to buy a car with automatic braking because she knows she'll be driving and texting, but quite another to force everyone else to buy a car with automatic braking because the government knows soccer moms will be texting and driving.
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If the car has ABS, that doesn't happen. It doesn't stop either, though, unless it's very good ABS.
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So you're saying that a good driver is at a disadvantage trying to avoid a low-speed collision, but the average idiots who vastly outnumber them suddenly improve drastically. Statistically, if you're a legislator trying for a net reduction in medical expenses and public complaints... the auto-braking wins.
And airbags? They absolutely do NOT save people who don't wear seat belts. Failure to wear a seat belt can mean you're dangerously close to the airbag when it goes off... to the point you can be more se
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He's probably remembering the generation 1 air bags, that were forced to be made with the premise that they needed to protect an unbelted driver/passenger under the premise that there were a lot of them. To be fair, there probably were at that point.
These days, education and more annoying warnings* means more people are buckled up, and they switched to 2 stage airbags.
For others reading this: Airbags ABSOLUTELY DO IMPROVE SAFETY. That's why people can walk out of 60 mph accidents with minor injuries thes
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Geeze dude here's an intro video on ABS [youtube.com] for anybody not familiar with the concept or the fact that it allows you to still turn.
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No we haven't. Except maybe in a few flawed implementations, airbags improve safety.
https://www.nhtsa.gov/equipmen... [nhtsa.gov]
https://carbuzz.com/car-advice... [carbuzz.com]
etc...The problem is that everybody is convinced they're a good driver, ergo the texting bad driver soccer mom is convinced she's a good driver so she'd buy a big SUV without automatic braking, because who wants that? She's a safe driver... She just wants the massive SUV to make her safer from all the other idiots driving massive SUVs on the road(to be safe
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I'm pretty sure these are all optimized to never trigger outside of compliance testing.
Moving cars in the same lane is easy, everything else is a phantom breaking bonanza.
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Blind spot monitoring is the least troublesome and most helpful in my experience. AEB features still aren't smart enough.
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The proposal should attack growing complexity in all things or "complexity pollution" by mandating the the system be as simple as possible.
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