I made a post about my dilemma a couple weeks back, but still haven't made up my mind. Basically, I scooped up a 16" M1 Max 32gb 1tb SSD on sale for $2499, but it's a thick and chunky behemoth and I think my heart still tells me the 14" form factor is my preference... the issue is, if I go that route, due to cost I'd probably just stick with the base model m2 pro with 16gb RAM and 512gb ssd.

I'm not super concerned about the SSD space because i have a 14tb external hdd i can dock to, but the RAM is the main reason I'm leaning towards keeping the m1 max. I am concerned that 16gb RAM might become increasingly slower within the next 2-3 years, as it seems like we are at the point where 8gb is no longer the standard and 16gb is becoming increasingly common in base model laptops.

I guess I was just curious to see what you guys thought... if I did stick with the 14" m2 pro and return the m1 max, do you think I'll regret keeping the one with only 16gb RAM, or will that still get me by for a good number of years moving forward and am I underestimating the power and efficiency of the apple operating system?

(This is my first-ever Macbook and if I seem to be having OCD still struggling to make up my mind weeks later, it's probably because it feels like a huge decision and I want to make sure I make the right choice.)

What are you planning to do with the MacBook? That is a major factor in deciding if 16 GB of RAM is enough.

You have 32GB of RAM in uour current machine? I'd suggest going through your normal day while monitoring the RAM usage in Activity Monitor. That will let you know, based on your usage, if 16GB will meet your needs.

rm5 said:

What are you planning to do with the MacBook? That is a major factor in deciding if 16 GB of RAM is enough.

currently my usage is fairly light tbh, which is why 32gb is probably overkill, but i also plan to keep it for a long time (my last laptop lasted for over a decade) and i do have the aspiration to get back into video editing and some photography work. so i didn't want to spend almost $2k on a device that might not be able to keep up with performance demands in 2-3 years' time. for only a few hundred dollars more the specs on the m1 max seemed like a no-brainer.

but, the main thing i've been wrestling with has been the form factor of the 16" tbh, and just feeling like it might be too bulky and cumbersome to use as a laptop.

diggy33 said:

You have 32GB of RAM in uour current machine? I'd suggest going through your normal day while monitoring the RAM usage in Activity Monitor. That will let you know, based on your usage, if 16GB will meet your needs.

that's a good idea but i tried using it and was a little confused how to read it (this is my first macbook, maybe that's why). it seemed to be indicating i was using 8gb ram just with safari open which seems... not accurate? but maybe it is?

portishead12 said:

i tried using it and was a little confused how to read it (this is my first macbook, maybe that's why). it seemed to be indicating i was using 8gb ram just with safari open which seems... not accurate? but maybe it is?

It's "accurate". Everything that can will be put into the RAM to speed up further access. The more RAM available, the more is used - which does not necessarily mean a device with less RAM performs any worse.
In the screenshot below I have 27GB of RAM "in use" but know for a fact that the same workflow performs identical on a 16GB machine without using swap.

So the used RAM is not suited very well to evaluate RAM requirements. For that, there are 2 better indicators (imho):
- Memory Pressure (does it increase into yellow or even red), often accompanied by larger swap?
- Do you actually feel any slowdowns/hangs or messages to quit applications?

> If you reach yellow memory pressure with your 32GB machine, I would not settle for 16GB.
> If you are always green, it's harder to predict how 16GB would perform and it comes down to your (future) use case if 16GB actually slow you noticeably down and justify the upcharge to 32GB.
From your description, I suspect you are more than fine with 16GB - even in the long run.

(Caution, Rant: But no one knows how much more bloated websites get with ads/trackers. IMHO this is one of the main reasons for the wildly experienced "slow-downs" of devices over time. It's insane how much the RAM/CPU ressources suddenly drop with a proper ad-blocker/DNS resolver and how snappy even an 8GB Intel machine can feel again browsing the web.)

portishead12 said:

that's a good idea but i tried using it and was a little confused how to read it (this is my first macbook, maybe that's why). it seemed to be indicating i was using 8gb ram just with safari open which seems... not accurate? but maybe it is?

Sorry, assumed you were familiar. But the post from @arw goes in to more detail as to what I was getting at.

portishead12 said:

I made a post about my dilemma a couple weeks back, but still haven't made up my mind. Basically, I scooped up a 16" M1 Max 32gb 1tb SSD on sale for $2499, but it's a thick and chunky behemoth and I think my heart still tells me the 14" form factor is my preference... the issue is, if I go that route, due to cost I'd probably just stick with the base model m2 pro with 16gb RAM and 512gb ssd.

I'm not super concerned about the SSD space because i have a 14tb external hdd i can dock to, but the RAM is the main reason I'm leaning towards keeping the m1 max. I am concerned that 16gb RAM might become increasingly slower within the next 2-3 years, as it seems like we are at the point where 8gb is no longer the standard and 16gb is becoming increasingly common in base model laptops.

I guess I was just curious to see what you guys thought... if I did stick with the 14" m2 pro and return the m1 max, do you think I'll regret keeping the one with only 16gb RAM, or will that still get me by for a good number of years moving forward and am I underestimating the power and efficiency of the apple operating system?

(This is my first-ever Macbook and if I seem to be having OCD still struggling to make up my mind weeks later, it's probably because it feels like a huge decision and I want to make sure I make the right choice.)

Click to expand...

The memory manager tends to use available memory. If you can use a laptop for 10 years, you should be happy with either MacBook for a while beyond 2026. I opted for a light and thin 8G MacBook Air in 2017 that I don't have to keep for ten years. I don't wait on it much. I have 18 apps and 15 tabs open now and it is fine. But, I have to close some web pages including MacRumors that use a lot of memory and CPU processes if the fans get loud and hot. Does that help calm your nerves? I look forward to getting an M3, with USB-C, Thunderbolt 4, and 6 GHz WIFI, but I've been able to get by without one until I justify the new one. When I get it, I'll want an M4, Thunderbolt 5, and WIFI 7. Never mind what they are or do. I still have a 2013 Mac Mini 8G 1T it doesn't update the Mac OS X past 10.15, but it still handles video editing in the background with Mail and Safari active. HD video can be processed about five times faster than normal that might not be practical with a deadline, but it's okay for HD home video. Docks and external drives are helpful for big video files. I think the WIFI 4 and USB 3.0 are as much a bottleneck as the 8G memory, but I couldn't buy anything better then and it usually works as fast as I do. I am careful to back up the important stuff. M3 Macs might be announced in June at WWDC, so I won't be buying before then. M1 prices will fall again. There's lots to consider, but using an Intel based Mac now does more for me than OCD about what might happen in future Tech. Can you imagine what computer specs we will "need" in 2033?

When I bought my M1 MacBook Pro in 2020, this was a deciding factor. My days of running multiple VM's were behind me, most of applications are web based, very average everyday task could easily be handled by the M1. So, I went with the 8 GBs of RAM. I have yet to feel any strain with this spec; edited a wedding video captured in 4K on my iPhone 6s and yes, I even run Windows 11 without any issues. Future growth is always a concern, especially if you plan to keep these devices for a long time. My previous MacBook Pro, an Intel Broadwell, 13 inch (2015) came with 8 GBs of RAM, too. It is still being used as a night stand computer for web browsing and email. For a computer that's now going 8 years strong and still usable for just about the most mundane stuff most users expect, is a pretty good sign especially for todays minimum specced Apple Silicon computers. Even just the way how they are designed architecturally will certainly mean even 16 and 8 GB models will still be super useful 5 years from now. Yes, as more complex projects are thrown at them in the future, they might not be as fast as before, even with todays higher RAM capacities. If you are going to be doing 8K, AR/AI projects, you likely will need to get a newer system by time those kinda projects are the mainstream workflow anyway.

I have 16 GB.

I run a couple of windows VM for stuff, i regularly have 10-12 applications open to do my job. I rarely see memory pressure go into the orange (only when running one or both VMs concurrently).

16 GB is fine for most people so unless you have some specific workload you're concerned about... you're probably good with 16 or maybe even 8.

My general rule of thumb for Apple machines has been to double the baseline mac spec for longevity/peformance unless you know you have some specific more intense workload. It's served me well so far (since 2011).

portishead12 said:

currently my usage is fairly light tbh, which is why 32gb is probably overkill, but i also plan to keep it for a long time (my last laptop lasted for over a decade) and i do have the aspiration to get back into video editing and some photography work. so i didn't want to spend almost $2k on a device that might not be able to keep up with performance demands in 2-3 years' time. for only a few hundred dollars more the specs on the m1 max seemed like a no-brainer.

but, the main thing i've been wrestling with has been the form factor of the 16" tbh, and just feeling like it might be too bulky and cumbersome to use as a laptop.

MBA should be sufficient for your needs. Get 16gb / 512gb. This should be enough if you want to learn video editing etc. Don’t worry too much about future needs. If you have heavy work that need more than that spec in the future, it means you will be paid for that work and you can get more sophisticated machine at that time.

With such standard/large RAM questions, what has become a concern is the non-upgradeability of the recent Macs. Low RAM will require a lot of swap cycles per run, and that will have an impact on the longevity of the SSD internal disk.

I never had such worries with the Mac Pros, as they come with lots of RAM, but when I decided to slowly shift to M1 Macs, the low memory came up. I now know, from daily experience, that even 8 GB is still ok (I even run Photoshop and VMs on Parallels), but I monitor memory and disk as much as I can. And I avoid overloading both (using lots of external NVMe disks and the like).

apostolosdt said:

With such standard/large RAM questions, what has become a concern is the non-upgradeability of the recent Macs. Low RAM will require a lot of swap cycles per run, and that will have an impact on the longevity of the SSD internal disk.

I never had such worries with the Mac Pros, as they come with lots of RAM, but when I decided to slowly shift to M1 Macs, the low memory came up. I now know, from daily experience, that even 8 GB is still ok (I even run Photoshop and VMs on Parallels), but I monitor memory and disk as much as I can. And I avoid overloading both (using lots of external NVMe disks and the like).

In theory this is a thing; in practice my 2015 macbook pro with 8 GB of ram and non-replaceable/upgradable SSD is still totally fine. the CPU, screen and IO ports have become less useful long before the SSD has worn out.

It’s 8 years old this year.

The machine shipped with LPDDR3 - the current memory standard is DDR5.

I think expecting a machine to last too much longer than that is just unrealistic - i.e., in reality the upgrade concerns are theoretical only.

By the time it wears out, the ports are out of date, CPU instructions for accelerating software (e.g., above machine tanks CPU on zoom calls as it can’t accelerate h.265, etc. in hardware) aren’t present, IO standards move on, etc.

throAU said:

In theory this is a thing; in practice my 2015 macbook pro with 8 GB of ram and non-replaceable/upgradable SSD is still totally fine. the CPU, screen and IO ports have become less useful long before the SSD has worn out.

It’s 8 years old this year.

The machine shipped with LPDDR3 - the current memory standard is DDR5.

I think expecting a machine to last too much longer than that is just unrealistic - i.e., in reality the upgrade concerns are theoretical only.

By the time it wears out, the ports are out of date, CPU instructions for accelerating software (e.g., above machine tanks CPU on zoom calls as it can’t accelerate h.265, etc. in hardware) aren’t present, IO standards move on, etc.

Click to expand...

Admittedly, good points. Thanks.

portishead12 said:

currently my usage is fairly light tbh, which is why 32gb is probably overkill, but i also plan to keep it for a long time (my last laptop lasted for over a decade) and i do have the aspiration to get back into video editing and some photography work.

My Kia Sorrento is fine for now, but I have the aspiration to get into road racing so maybe I should just buy a Corvette instead…

It’s foolish to buy a computer for something you’re not doing, or don’t have plans to do in the immediate future. Buy the laptop you need now, and if your needs change - trade/sell and upgrade.

portishead12 said:

I am concerned that 16gb RAM might become increasingly slower within the next 2-3 years,

portishead12 said:

i do have the aspiration to get back into video editing

RAM, of course, doesn't get slower but needs can change. It is a question of (1) accessing your immediate needs vs (2) your expectations of future needs vs what you can afford. Video editing can take some memory (although some simple renders with a FCP test only took less than 2 GB). Some apps take huge amounts of memory (Windows 11 under Parallels ~8 GB minimum, X-Plane up to 20 GB).

FreakinEurekan said:

It’s foolish to buy a computer for something you’re not doing, or don’t have plans to do in the immediate future. Buy the laptop you need now, and if your needs change - trade/sell and upgrade.

You could do that but personally I would over spec so (1) I don't have to take the $ loss and hassle of replacing the system (2) kicking myself for not purchasing enough memory.

HDFan said:

[...] Some apps take huge amounts of memory (Windows 11 under Parallels ~8 GB minimum [...]

Just to keep this discussion informative for those interested, I run Windows 11 on Parallels with a maximum of 4 GB memory assigned on a base Mini M1; I do that for test purposes, but I often use Photoshop installed on the W11.

It does not look great for video editing on macbook pro or macbook air going forward, unless Apple changes the "ban" on post purchase upgrading of RAM and SSD in future releases of macbook pro or macbook air...

The rate of development of camera technology, with the LOGS/LUTS, and other side car files, is way ahead of the rate of development of software to be used to edit the media created...

A classic case is about to unfold next week, it is assumed and yet to be confirmed or denied by Apple is that even a 12 inch ipad pro with 16GB of RAM and a 2TB SSD internal cannot access external SSD drives, that is the assumption now before the official release on the 23rd of May 2023...

This is a problem, as the 12 inch with 1TB is almost $2000, and the minimum requirements for FCP on ipad allows for a 64GB SSD and 8GB of RAM to be used, just how much media can you record on the ipad before you run out of media space?? 64GB of video is really not a lot, then to have no access to external drives??

The biggest problem is the number of ports and the lack of planning for at least 3 years of growth, surely in the last 12 years Apple would have come to realize that 1-external SSD card/drives are vital, and 2-SD card slot would enhance the ipad, I just cannot understand in the lifespan of the ipad, why not at least 1 version was put on the market with an SD card slot...

As soon as you start adding effects and color grading to a clip, this will start to tax the system, what everyone has forgotten is that video editing is a complex app that applies a lot of math algorithms to each pixel in each frame, to change the state of that pixel, and that has to require some sort of "boost.."

So far there has been only 1 external GPU released, by Blackmagic, and something went wrong, but it was not around long, it seems due to a chip shortage..[I truly don't believe that was the real reason...], but this creates a problem, at some point video editing will have to move from a mobile device ipad/laptop to the desktop...

Apple knows this, and the only way to carry on editing is to spend the $10 000 or more to get a decent mac pro tower with the 64/96 or 128GB of RAM, or running a lot of GPU or a shed full of graphics cards...

The fact is, Apple is pushing for you to buy and buy often, long gone are the days of keeping a mac for more than 2 yrs, you will need to buy the top spec of each if you want a hope to survive...

I had no idea until I saw a video about this, that the 64 to 512 GB SSD ipads only had 8GB of RAM, that the 1TB/2TB 12 inch Ipad Pro came with 16GB of RAM.. This is something of a surprise, as here in South Africa, the Apple website does not list the RAM installed on each device, there is no mention of RAM at all...

I cannot understand how in 2000's Apple could create the 1st generation of macbook pro with the ability to upgrade RAM post purchase.. What a pleasure, now it is a pain, and the costs are just beyond comprehension...An ipad that costs more than a decent 2nd hand car???

apostolosdt said:

Just to keep this discussion informative for those interested, I run Windows 11 on Parallels with a maximum of 4 GB memory assigned on a base Mini M1; I do that for test purposes, but I often use Photoshop installed on the W11.

Some people massively overestimate the RAM requirement of VMs.

HDFan said:

RAM, of course, doesn't get slower but needs can change. It is a question of (1) accessing your immediate needs vs (2) your expectations of future needs vs what you can afford. Video editing can take some memory (although some simple renders with a FCP test only took less than 2 GB). Some apps take huge amounts of memory (Windows 11 under Parallels ~8 GB minimum, X-Plane up to 20 GB).

You could do that but personally I would over spec so (1) I don't have to take the $ loss and hassle of replacing the system (2) kicking myself for not purchasing enough memory.

Click to expand...

Thanks everyone. On the point of buying what I need now vs later - I just know how I am with tech purchases and I tend to hold onto stuff for ages and am not someone who upgrades every couple years. I still have a laptop from 2003 on hand (don’t use it but still have it).

I also think the factor I’ve tried to consider are the cost savings I got on the M1 Max, as it’s only a few hundred dollars more than the base m2 pro and I basically have double the ram and storage.

Appreciate all the replies though. Some helpful info here.

JustinePaula said:

The fact is, Apple is pushing for you to buy and buy often, long gone are the days of keeping a mac for more than 2 yrs, you will need to buy the top spec of each if you want a hope to survive...

The OP is a person who kept an old doorstop of a laptop from 2003 and has some simple mainstream use cases in mind, I don't think a weird rant about cutting edge video production was called for.

JustinePaula said:

I cannot understand how in 2000's Apple could create the 1st generation of macbook pro with the ability to upgrade RAM post purchase..

Things are getting more integrated. This benefits everyone through higher performance, reliability and lower cost. The tradeoff is that upgrades aren't possible, but making those kinds of upgrades sure isn't mainstream. I've actually upgraded the memory to the max on all of my iMacs, but that's not for everyone, and it's no fun when it doesn't work because you received defective memory. Certainly not the kind of experience Apple is aiming for.

Anecdote in this context: On my oh-so-upgradeable 2009 iMac, the CD-ROM, hard disk and screen all broke, the screen having black dots in the glass in locations that changed after every repair until it was gone after 5 times. It kept having one hardware issue or another at any given time. The whole comp stopped working completely after 8 years.

My oh-so-evil 2015 iMac with all the integration never had any issues.

portishead12 said:

Thanks everyone. On the point of buying what I need now vs later - I just know how I am with tech purchases and I tend to hold onto stuff for ages and am not someone who upgrades every couple years. I still have a laptop from 2003 on hand (don’t use it but still have it).

That's unreasonable. There's no way to meaningfully plan for that kind of time frame unless you don't care about security or performance at all.

portishead12 said:

I also think the factor I’ve tried to consider are the cost savings I got on the M1 Max, as it’s only a few hundred dollars more than the base m2 pro and I basically have double the ram and storage.

Base models stink. This is particularly true in your situation, where it looks like you want to keep your computer until 2043 or so. In that case, I would get the biggest model with everything maxed out and hope there'll be no major innovations until then.

If you want to use it as a daily driver for a decade, you’ll want the extra memory. I had to replace my 2012 MBP in 2019. I’d meant to hold out for Apple Silicon, but 8GB RAM (which seemed like plenty when I got it) was no longer enough. The MBA I replaced it with was no faster but with 16GB could actually run the software I needed to do a job.

Smartuser said:

That's unreasonable. There's no way to meaningfully plan for that kind of time frame unless you don't care about security or performance at all.

Base models stink. This is particularly true in your situation, where it looks like you want to keep your computer until 2043 or so. In that case, I would get the biggest model with everything maxed out and hope there'll be no major innovations until then.

I’m not literally saying I plan to keep using it for 20 years. I tend to average about a decade between laptop upgrades (I’m in my mid 30s and I purchased one right out of college, and the one prior to that I think I got when I was in high school). My point being simply that I’m not someone who jumps ship to the latest and greatest models every couple years like I know some tech heads and Apple fans do, no judgment, I’m just not someone who always needs the latest tech and I am kind of a hoarder with stuff and never like letting go of things. I don’t even sell my old video game consoles lol. Still have my original Xbox from 2001 in a box in my basement.

Anyway, I just didn’t want to buy something for close to $2k that would start to slow down and be less than ideal in 2-3 years’ time, when for a few hundred dollars more I could get something with double the specs basically - but that’s why I wanted to ask here because I wasn’t sure if my concern about the RAM on the base model was reasonable or realistic, or if it’ll keep chugging along just fine for many years.

splitpea said:

If you want to use it as a daily driver for a decade, you’ll want the extra memory. I had to replace my 2012 MBP in 2019. I’d meant to hold out for Apple Silicon, but 8GB RAM (which seemed like plenty when I got it) was no longer enough. The MBA I replaced it with was no faster but with 16GB could actually run the software I needed to do a job.

Thanks. That’s kinda what I was getting at with my post. I just didn’t want to invest $2k into something that would require an upgrade in just a couple years to be able to meet new minimum requirements. I know 16gb is still pretty solid but I saw how quickly 4gb jumped to 8gb in terms of standards, and now how quickly 16gb seems to have become the new standard. 2 months ago when I first started laptop shopping, I went to Best Buy and it seemed virtually all midrange and above windows laptops had that much RAM and only the Chromebook type laptops had 8gb. I wasn’t sure if this trend would accelerate and 32gb would become the “normal” standard in 2-3 years’ time.