GM Plans To Phase Out Apple CarPlay In EVs, With Google's Help - Slashdot
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GM Plans To Phase Out Apple CarPlay In EVs, With Google's Help
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GM would benefit from focusing engineers and investment on one approach to more tightly connecting in-vehicle infotainment and navigation with features such as assisted driving, Edward Kummer, GM's chief digital officer, and Mike Hichme, executive director of digital cockpit experience, said in an interview. "We have a lot of new driver assistance features coming that are more tightly coupled with navigation," Hichme told Reuters. "We don't want to design these features in a way that are dependent on person having a cellphone."
Buyers of GM EVs with the new systems will get access to Google Maps and Google Assistant, a voice command system, at no extra cost for eight years, GM said. GM said the future infotainment systems will offer applications such as Spotify's music service, Audible and other services that many drivers now access via smartphones. "We do believe there are subscription revenue opportunities for us," Kummer said. GM Chief Executive Mary Barra is aiming for $20 billion to $25 billion in annual revenue from subscriptions by 2030.
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Same.
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I would say Same, but I have a Tesla and so already have to do without. I love it in my Ford Truck though. Not as good as the Tesla infotainment (I mean come on, Steam!) but I do miss some of the mapping ease. You can share to tesla via the app though and the lookup is google maps. So overall not a big deal. I do wonder why though. Google must be paying them anti-competitively.
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I find Apple CarPlay to suck most of the time. Well, possibly it's just the Apple apps that suck. Various reasons, primary one is that it usually refuses to do anything if you don't have cellular data plan turned on, or stupid interfaces (that barely work even on the phone). Even for maps, when I need it I'll use Google instead.
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Same for me too. Screw them.
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Same here. Hope you are listening GM. 2x Volt owner.
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Same.
My current car is a GM EV, and about the only part of the infotainment system that doesn't suck is CarPlay. For example second place in the "good" parts of the infotainment system is "XM Chanel Zero" is silent (because no matter what I was doing last time I was in the car, it decides I really want (a) the radio on, and (b) playing XM (true when I had the "free intro subscription" and then true after that when it became the "XM begs for my money" channel). Seriously the #2 feature is "I found out ho
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Also, for those of us who rent a lot of cars, means that I will refuse any rental that is a GM product as well. When you’re moving from vehicle to vehicle all the time, having the consistency of using your own phone is a huge win.
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One of the primary considerations when I bought my last car was whether it supported Apple's CarPlay. I didn't even consider a car without it – and the GM/Chevrolet Bolt was a Final Two contender (I went with a Kia). I love the integrated functionality and will not buy a car without it in the future.
GM's decision here is blatantly anti-consumer and sales will suffer, and that's good. They apparently need to learn this lesson.
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by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @07:52PM (#63415610)
Funny. My consideration is always that the infotainment system works without car play and has a local system. I expect my car to last far longer than my phone, and don't need a $40k piece of gear limiting my choices of which phone to use going forward.
Phones and apps married with anything that has a life expectancy of longer than a couple of years is a bad idea.
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I don't think there's any CarPlay/Android Auto system out there that doesn't include all the regular stuff (FM, Sirius, etc) so don't worry about it. ðY
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Yup. Besides, your phone platform will outlast your car. Especially if you are considering tech as a justification for trading in for a new one. iPhones have been around since 2007.
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What percentage of 2007 iPhones are still on the road?
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You can still use CarPlay when you get a new iPhone.
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Can you use it with a 2007 iPhone?
The point is there are two moving parts here. Both will have finite lives. You should plan for when one or the other stops working. Hopefully it is the phone.
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I use an iPhone 4s regularly as an iPod.
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Well if you don't buy garbage vehicles they last 12 years or more.
I have yet to see a phone platform make it that long.
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by Luthair ( 847766 ) on Friday March 31, 2023 @10:10PM (#63415870)
This logic is backwards, your car is locked into today's technology for its entire lifespan with Android Auto or CarPlay your car becomes a portal to your phones technology which you replace every 3-5 years. Not to mention everyone will release Android & Apple apps, no is going to release a GM app.
GM just wants to track you even more than they already do with OnStar
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No. You missed the point while aptly making mine in a backwards way. You car is locked into today's technology for its entire lifespan. That means it is incapable of developing with the fast pace of development (or fast pace of planned obsolescence) present in the mobile / app world and runs the very real risk of becoming incompatible when Google or the Think Different crowd release the newest hotness for your to upgrade to. The issue isn't the app on the phone, it's the future compatibility of the portal.
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And I'm pretty sure GM wants to 1) sell even more of your data to 3rd parties and 2) somehow turn these in-car crap into a subscription service.
If GM weren't already unlikely for me to consider -- it's even more so after reading this.
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Exactly, your car will outlast your phone. Which is why you want all of that software on the phone instead of the car- so it continues to be updates in software and hardware, can easily be replaced with something better, and is an open platform that allows you to choose your software providers. Hell, worst case you can mount the phone on your dash and use it. Anything in car you're stuck with permanently. Not to mention who knows how long it will be around- my car is 20 years old. There is 0 chance a
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No you missed the point. Updates introduce incompatibilities. If you marry something with a fast update cycle with something with no update cycle you'll very quickly find yourself in a world where you have the latest and greeted fancy app which then does not work at all with your car.
By all means I'm not saying don't get a car with ability to connect to your phone. I'm saying when you do, it's essential that you're completely happy with the full functionality of your car *without* the phone. God knows I exp
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Wait wait wait... you're saying GM is anti consumer for not supporting one of *THE MOST* anti consumer company on the planet? GM doesn't stop you from replacing a 25 cent magnet censor with a third party fix.
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Well, you're of course entitled to your opinion on 'anti-consumer' I'd rate the entire telecom industry well ahead of Apple for that.
The good thing is for phones, computers, tablets, etc, you do have choices. If you don't like Apple, you can buy WIndows, Linux, Android, etc. In most jurisdictions, you don't have choice for broadband. And this dumb-assed decision by GM is about taking from you -your choice- of which mapping system (for example) to use, and substituting -their choice-, made by an industr
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I 100% agree. When I bought my last car the #1 item to consider was Android Auto and Apple Car play. If it didn't support it I didn't consider it. I don't want to be locked into an automotive vendor that typically is 3 years behind in technology and doesn't get hardware updates over time. I thought we all learned that lesson with OEM navigation.
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Same here.
I like android auto, you don't support it, I won't buy your vehicle.-
Neither of my cars have it. I've used it on rentals and loaners, but I'll take an aux port just the same. The audio quality is better anyway. IMO, automobiles peaked somewhere in the early 2010s. After that, the nannies came in.
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Hold that thought for a while: "...could help the automaker capture more data." and let's just put a fullstop there. Of course GM made a deal with Google. Win-win, someone?
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And capture more Google money. There should not be significant engineering to make this work. Both Apple and Google should provide support, even some financial help. It is just that Google is willing to buy a monopoly. And GM is banking on a future of monetizing the customer.
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What more data though? It's an open secret that pretty much every modern vehicle comes with a cellular modem and transmits telemetry back to the manufacturer. Tesla is pretty open about this, but they all do it.
I suppose they could get more detailed information about the apps people are using and exactly where people are going, but cars already report GPS coordinates back. I'm not sure I really buy the "capture more data" argument, especially given that they're partnering with Google to use Android Automoti
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Now I can put GM on the short list of vehicles I might buy. That is if they have improved overall quality of their products.
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CarPlay and Android Auto are one of the few good things automakers of done of late. Two competing standards giving consumers choice and a great deal of power to future-proof and expand the functionality of their vehicle infotainment systems essentially for free. I use three different map apps in my truck depending on my specific needs and what I'm doing (Waze, Google Maps and Apple Maps), and that is only possible because of CarPlay (or Android Auto if I used Android, although I wouldn't have access to Apple Maps in that case, and they do a much better job than Google locating rural addresses in my area).
Even if you don't use Apple, I don't understand why you'd want a locked-down proprietary Google infotainment system instead of using the open architecture of an Android device, which also provides you with data connectivity without having to have additional separate cellular data plans for each vehicle.
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Well, maybe you can understand that Apple is a proprietary company that has had a walled garden mentality since their inception. I want them to disappear as soon as possible. If Apple had their way there would be no other tech available even though they probably didn't invent it.
I want google to disappear also, but one thing at a time.
And to answer the question that will follow this post...... The solution is open source. Government mandated if need be. And I hate the government.
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So you're going to pay GM a subscription for the right to see Google Maps. Seems reasonable.
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I would never pay for something that is already on my phone.
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Open Source is not the solution. Open Source only imitates, it rarely innovates.
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I believe we are going to have to take you behind the woodshed.
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You have obviously never used open source software.
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They haven't.
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diming that sticks in my craw.
Tack another $500 on the msrp so the shit on the screen just works instead of having to make me get an account, log in, pay for every little thing, and keep doing it every whenever they expire.
Fucking hell. Imagine having to renew subscriptions for your left shoe, your right shoe, your left shoelace...sorry the right shoelace isn't available right now...
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Apple CarPlay and Android Auto mean that buyers aren't subscribing to their ridiculous $300/year fees for GPS map updates.
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In the absence Apple CarPlay or Android Auto my primary consideration concerning 'infotainment' is whether the car has a bluetooth connection. Next thing I do is put a tablet mount in the car and snap a tablet of my choice into it. If car makers are now requiring subscriptions for making the damn 'infotainment' system work they can make my car without an 'infotainment' system at all. Worst case I'll buy a tablet/phone interface unit, hook it up to the sound system hook up a mobile device up to that black bo
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By law cars and trucks require a reverse camera so every vehicle is going to come with a full color screen whether you want it or not. The infotainment part is just a bonus.
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Doesn't have to be center-console mounted -- legally, they could get away with a color screen in the gauge cluster that shows other info when not being used as a reversing camera display. NHTSA guidance allows a 3.5 inch display as a minimum size.
You could absolutely have a car with standard DIN radio/infotainment and dial HVAC controls while meeting the letter of the law.
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Plus, if GM can trick you into using their applications they can gather even more information about you which they can to the OnStar tracking data that they already sell.
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Instead of plugging in a phone that has everything already configured, along with contacts, map settings, offline maps, spotify configuration/login or music player with offline music files, and past call and text history, one could (1) spend the time to set everything up from scratch before driving the car and (2) spend the time to delete everything before returning the car.
There are privacy issues (e.g., leaving personal info on the car). There are utility issues (e.g., having no navigation or music when the cell phone connection is bad). There are financial issues (e.g., who's paying for the car's cell phone connection?). There are convenience issues (e.g., having to set up the car for every new rental).
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I'm confused. I rent cars all the time because I travel constantly for work. Why are you plugging or configuring anything in your car? Turn on bluetooth so you can play your tunes and call it a day.
It's a car, it's job is to be driven not for you to play with its screen and contacts, and configuration, and what no.
There are privacy issues with Android Auto as well. It hands over your contact information.
I've never seen a car support Android Auto or Car Play without a nav system. Never. And I've driven hundr
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Navigation. It's for the navigation display on the car so you aren't holding your phone to navigate (illegal in plenty of places, bad idea everywhere).
Plenty of rentals do not come with a built-in navigation system. The "full size" car I rented last week in California did not come with built in navigation system.
Maybe you've memorised the roads everywhere you travel, but I haven't.
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Good:
* GM will put a GPS in every BEV, and nav software, so you won't need a phone to navigate.
* GM could add a feature where, on long drives, the nav routes you to charging stations (Tesla already has this).
* GM is promising access to Google Maps for "at least 8 years". This is better than legacy car makers trying to charge hundreds of dollars for map updates for in-car nav. (It was a while ago now, but I remember when Volkswagen sent us an offer that we could update the map data in our car for, IIRC, $3-
You mention Google charging for updates after 8 years. When GM wants to motivate you to buy a new car instead. So they start charging for subscriptions. Who owns 8-year-old cars? Some thrifty folks, or people who just love their cars, but mostly itâ(TM)s financially disadvantaged people, who are once again getting screwed by the system.
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One of the main reasons I did not purchase a Tesla - aside from the atrocious ride quality - was that it did not have Apple CarPlay. I have all my map locations in my Iphone on either Apple Maps, Google Maps, or Waze, I have my songs on my Iphone, and I have Audible for books. I simply plug my Iphone into my car and the familiar screen comes up. I have zero desire to need another crappy navigation system from a car maker.
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Wife and I MUCH PREFER Apple Maps over the mapping system in our cars. But we get to choose. GM's decision replaces our choice with theirs. Wife's mapping system is "enter state" "enter city" "enter street name" "enter number" I called that 'user interface malpractice.' (Friend with a Tesla told me "I can send an address to the Tesla app on my phone, and usually it will transmit that to the car." A bit of progress, but not reliable.)
Now what I'd like to see as an example is integrated mapping an
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You are not forced to use Apple Maps. I use Waze all the time. CarPlay is amazing, sorry, you're misinformed.
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Your third mistake was buying a car without wireless CarPlay. Mine does none of the things you mention, ever.
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1. You are not forced to use Apple Maps when using CarPlay.
2. I've been using CarPlay since 2018 and it has never crashed, not once. I've used it both wired and wirelessly, depending on whether or not I needed to charge my phone.
3. Force restarting an iPhone is not the same as rebooting. You showed us how to force restart, rebooting is much simpler. I'm not kidding.
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This is a crazy post that is also just incorrect.
This is false. I have Google Maps, Waze, and Apple Maps. I mostly use Apple Maps, but occasionally will use Waze. Apple has never restricted you on CarPlay.
I use CarPlay, pretty much daily, and I have for many years (about six since I have a 2017 model year). I have never, not once, had to restart my phone. I HAVE, with an older version of the Ford SYNC software, had the car entertainment system crash. The OTA updates also refused to install, the thumbdrive m
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Obviously this is some troll response. Apple Maps is mostly better than Waze/Google Maps, all which work fine with CarPlay. Apple Maps has better road info: Stop Lights, Stop Signs, Lane info for intersections with mostly enough pre-warning what lane you need to be in.
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So, let's review.
- alienate half your customer base by telling them their preference of phone isn't supported
- look at the remaining group as potential "subscribers" or monthly-payment-suckers depending on your perspective
- profit!I say this as a current Android user, but GM has just lost all my future potential business in perpetuity, as would any company doing the same as they are.
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Well, really no preference of phone is supported beyond a bluetooth connection apparently. True, you can use Google maps and perhaps some other pieces of Google's ecosystem, but that still won't just let you connect to the actual data and network connection on an Android phone either.
You know, like cars have been doing for close to a decade now. Idiots.
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AM/FM. An aux port. A dial to make the fan go slow or fast, a dial to make the air come out from different holes, and a dial to set whether it's as hot as it can be or as cold as it can be. A button to engage the air conditioner, separate from turning the dial to "max cold".
That's all, and the AM/FM is honestly optional.
I don't want a touch screen. Parking cameras are nice but like I said, I don't particularly want a screen, because then most/all of the above controls will be relegated to the touchscreen, which I don't want to use for adjusting the heater or A/C, because it requires taking my eyes away from the road and to the screen. I can just use the rear view mirror and bump fenders like schmucks have been doing for a century now.
I don't want built-in navigation, I already have a phone and an aux port. I don't want satellite radio, it's about as terrible as AM/FM but expects me to pay money for the privilege and I already have a phone and an aux port. I don't want built-in Bluetooth, I already have a phone and an aux port and a $4.99 Bluetooth adapter if needed.
About the only 21st-century feature I want in a car is remote start. Everything else that's come since the advent of power windows is, in my absolute most forgiving of moods, unnecessary; and in my more middle-of-the-bell-curve moods, to be considered anti-features.
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Legally, the NHTSA Nannies require a backup camera, but I guess this can be accomplished by an LCD screen on the dash cluster, not in the center console.
Honestly, I don't GAF about remote start either -- waste of energy and frankly a hazard in a garaged gas car.
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Why would you even need remote start in a garage kept car? My house was built in 1915, no garage:(
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The "best" cars ever made, outrageous power aside, were made in the 1990s, with the absolute peak being around 1995. That's when reliability, maintainability, visibility, and simplicity were all at their peak, and after efficiency had become decent. Yes, there are copious counterexamples against all of these, but there are terrible cars in every generation and we just tend to forget them — as we should. 1996 brought in OBD-II, which sometimes meant much better diagnostics built into the PCM, but also
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In my area (Northeast US) cars of that vintage are generally suffering from heavy rust. I gave up on my 2004 model that I loved after a series of rust related repairs was followed by another one that would have cost a few thousand. Your plan would probably work much better in a less salty area.
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Okay, that helps with my decision-making. It's from the same school of consumer-hatred as old mobile phones or OEM Windows installs stuffed with crapware. Or OEM Windows. No sale.
But... I own a Tesla, which also doesn't support CarPlay, so take my comment with a big old pinch of salt. If GM make a charging network to compete with Tesla I'll put them back on the list for my next car. Otherwise Kia/Hyundai/Audi/Porsche will all be considered before GM (and after another Tesla).
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They're already building out a charging network. It's supposed to cover the eastern seaboard first.
https://electrek.co/2022/07/14... [electrek.co]
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Tesla is doing fine without Carplay. Would be nice though i guess, maybe they could offer it a la carte or something like that.
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I mean they're making their vehicles incompatible with both Apple *and* Android. It's as if a television manufacturer decided their TVs would no longer work with a set-top box.
No way will I buy into that.
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Yes, this. Not supporting Android Auto OR Carplay means forcing you to use their system, which is done to induce you to overpay them for the services after the trial period. It's just a way to punch used car buyers in the dick. Nobody should therefore buy any GM product from here on out unless they a) plan to keep it less than the period of free support and b) do not care if they are able to resell it when they're done with it. A lot of new car buyers fall into category a, but of those who also fall into ca
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What is this "infotainment system"? My car has a CD player and AM/FM radio, and yes I do listen to AM radio on occasion.
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Ok back to bed grandpa
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The AM is the info and the FM is the 'tainment.
The CD player is the 8-track player..
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Just what I need is to be locked into my vehicle's infotainment system, which like my smart tv, will probably receive updates for one year or so, then become a security vulnerability and eventually incompatible with the newest versions of apps.
No thank you.
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More likely after 2-3 years apps will stop working or will not fit into storage the thing has. Cellular technologies are also in flux, todays 5G or 4G LTE will not work forever. All in all, makes no sense to build a computer expected to be obsolete shortly into a car that can easily last 20 years. As opposed to connecting an easily upgradable computer, aka a phone, through a USB cable.
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So what is the end game here? You must watch X number of adverts before you can put your car into drive, or pay an OTT subscription to only have watch fewer ads?
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The next step will be car by subscription only - instead of selling you the car they only lease it to you for a fixed period; with everything bundled in.
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But think about it. When cars are fully self driving, why let your car sit all day when you could be renting it out to others and making coin. And at that point, why own a car at all? Cars as a service would take millions of unnecessary cars off the road.
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I suspect it will be more like the manufacturer or some subsidiary/dealer network actually owns the vehicles and rents them out. That allows for centralized maintenance/updates, inventory control as cars can be shifted based on seasonal demand patterns, one payment for use, insurance, etc. It would essentially be the current rent a car model expanded to long term subscriptions. X hours/miles for a fixed fee and various pricing levels depending on expected use. One interesting possibility is, if enough ge
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Let's start with the clearly obvious.
It'll be a tough sell to get people to buy a car without carplay support if only because "I do or may own an iPhone some day". Let's not forget that CarPlay and Android Auto are special because they don't do anything on the car itself, it's just screen mirroring.
The obvious, more than anything else is that each time a new computer system for GM is released, either it will have to be retrofitted into the car (assuming GM will make it available) or the value of the car wil-
Point of order:
It is SOC and CPU manufacturers, and phone vendors, who cause lack of Android updates, not Google. Even if the phone vendor cares, SOC vendors like Qualcomm (and very much especially Qualcomm) stop supporting their hardware after about 3 years.
It's very hard to roll an Android release without the binary code from the SOC manufacturer that makes the SOC go, and if the SOC manufacturer won't help you, you will find it hard to produce a new Android release for the phone with that SOC.
This is the
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I know of a few cars like the Polestar and Mégane e-tech that use Google's car infotainment system and they still let people use Apple carplay. So there is no technical reason for this. I don't even see a business reason for it either for GM or Google. It can only lead to less vehicle sales which makes no sense.
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These infotainment systems are out of control. I just need buttons to pair a Bluetooth audio source, volume control and HVAC controls. These giant screens are unnecessary.
If I needed a tablet with wheels I would get a iPad a roll of duck tape and accomplish the same thing
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