5k HiDPI on new M2 ?

Hello,

Is anyone able to check if M2 Pro has improved internal frame buffer over the M1 Pro ?
Is it possible to get 5k HiDPI ?

macmus12 said:

Hello,

Is anyone able to check if M2 Pro has improved internal frame buffer over the M1 Pro ?
Is it possible to get 5k HiDPI ?

I use 5K2K monitor with M1PRO - no problem.

Not sure what issue you're having. The iMac 24" uses a base M1 and claims it can support a 6K display in 'Tech Specs' section of its product page. Other M1 CPUs will only support more.

Can you give more detail on which connection you're using, and which display you're using?

macmus12 said:

Hello,

Is anyone able to check if M2 Pro has improved internal frame buffer over the M1 Pro ?
Is it possible to get 5k HiDPI ?

I'm using two 5K displays at HiDPI on my M1 Pro. Not sure what you're asking.

The basic M1 does have limited support for higher resolution displays that exceed certain resolutions, and reportedly the basic M2 has the same limits. But the M1 Pro/Max/Ultra do not. And, presumably, nor does the M2 Pro/Max.

Are you asking about a 10,240 pixel x 5,760 pixel frame buffer (actual HiDPI for a "10K" display)? That I have no idea.

I'm asking about M2 not M1..

Per BetterDisplay (or better dummy) the M1 PRO I'm curious if those limits are still valid for M2 Pro...

@XXPP
I don't think your 5k2k is HiDPI... In that case the fonts are probably all jagged up

@xraydoc
Smooth 2x scale on 5k2k in not possible on M1 due to internal frame buffer limit on MacOS. The question is if that frame buffer is still valid for M2 or extended.

for 5k2k ideal would be 10k support to get perfect 2x scaling MacOS is build for.

At the end you confirm you're really asking about 10K as an internal resolution, not the normal doubling of Retina (where 5K would be 2x 2560x1440).

According to Apple, it has supported 16K x 16K textures since the A9/A10 chips, M1 and M2 included. See https://developer.apple.com/metal/Metal-Feature-Set-Tables.pdf , search for "Maximum 2D texture width and height". Cross reference the "Apple" GPU model IDs in the table with the models listed on page 1 and 2. M1 is Apple7, and M2 is Apple8.

Based on specs, even the base M1 can handle your 10K resolution. HiDPI mode was meant for retina-like resolutions on non-Retina displays. Perhaps your display falls into the retina DPI range, and you can't enable both retina AND HiDPI. Maybe HiDPI is blocked on monitors where Retina would normally be used, even when not enabled. Whatever the limitation, it appears to be MacOS limiting you, not the M1, based on the GPU specs, so the M2 likely won't help.

i dont think you understand, there are some folks on this forum who do tho…
4k hidpi is in fact double the res with res sub 8k limit scaled down x2.
the problem with 5k is goes over that limit for m1 pro hence one cannot achive 5k hidpi cause it would need 10k internal buffer.

I *do* understand though. Going back as far as the A9, it has supported 16K internal resolution. 10K should be no problem for the GPU. It's not a CPU/GPU issue. It's a MacOS issue, so M2 won't fix it. M1 wasn't the issue.

According to this thread over on HN, you can run some app called "BetterDummy" to create fake displays which can be used to get the desired result.

DaveEcc said:

I *do* understand though. Going back as far as the A9, it has supported 16K internal resolution. 10K should be no problem for the GPU. It's not a CPU/GPU issue. It's a MacOS issue, so M2 won't fix it. M1 wasn't the issue.

According to this thread over on HN, you can run some app called "BetterDummy" to create fake displays which can be used to get the desired result.

I know what betterDummy is .. and you are only partially right M1 has different internal buffer support then previous Intel based MacOses.. On Intel it was possible, but it was not possible on M1 Pro due to Apple Silicon to achieve 2x 5k for HiDPI purpose.

The limitation I have provided in first post are actually from the BetterDummy site, where author provides this restriction for Apple silicon MacsOes. However BetterDummy author does not yet know If limitation is same with M2 as it was with M1, hence I'm asking here on wider forum.

We need someone with M2 Pro and 5k2k monitor what resolutions (and which are HiDPI) can be achieved on M2.

Anyone can help here?

macmus12 said:

Anyone can help here?

Perhaps someone, but I don't think there are many people who are running their 5K monitors at full resolution but are also trying to force HiDPI font smoothing.

I can barely make out individual letters if I set my 27" 5K to 5120x2880, lol, let alone care how smooth the font was.

I'm not suggesting you give up, but data on edge cases like this might be hard to come by without trying it yourself first-hand.

The 5K2K displays are at ~40", a much lower PPI than the regular 5k that Apple uses (retina). Think of it as someone wanting HiDPI on a 32" UHD display, where the M1 Pro can exactly do a 2x buffer with its horizontal limit. So I can see some use in trying to get HiDPI on it vs trying the same on the Studio Display.

I have no answer to OP's question, but I would bet with the inclusion of the HDMI 2.1 and that 8k60 being advertised, this is probably an area Apple has looked into. But then it likely takes the M2 Pro / Max to achieve this anyway, the M2 is meant to be a mobile chip on 13" MBA and iPads just serving one retina screen and then one more modest external.

xraydoc said:

Perhaps someone, but I don't think there are many people who are running their 5K monitors at full resolution but are also trying to force HiDPI font smoothing.

I can barely make out individual letters if I set my 27" 5K to 5120x2880, lol, let alone care how smooth the font was.

I'm not suggesting you give up, but data on edge cases like this might be hard to come by without trying it yourself first-hand.

I don't think you get it still...

MacOS fonts without HiDPI are piece of garbage, unreadable piece of **** which makes by eyes bleed out just by looking at it. I have a SUW Samsung G9 and the fonts with native resolution (without scaling --> no HDPI) looks like that.

To properly draw fonts on the display what MacOS does it render the screen resolution 2x and then shrink it to the screen size. That is form of AA MacOS does. For 5k monitor it requires to render in a "buffer" OS at 10k and then shrink it down to 5k to get the same real estate as one would with native 5k resolution.
With M1 Pro screen needs to be rendered at sub 8k and then shrink to 5k which makes everything bigger (125% ish) and cut the real estate.

So the question is very important, if Apple figure out to increase internal buffer on M2 or we are dealing with same crap as on M1.

Chancha said:

The 5K2K displays are at ~40", a much lower PPI than the regular 5k that Apple uses (retina). Think of it as someone wanting HiDPI on a 32" UHD display, where the M1 Pro can exactly do a 2x buffer with its horizontal limit. So I can see some use in trying to get HiDPI on it vs trying the same on the Studio Display.

I have no answer to OP's question, but I would bet with the inclusion of the HDMI 2.1 and that 8k60 being advertised, this is probably an area Apple has looked into. But then it likely takes the M2 Pro / Max to achieve this anyway, the M2 is meant to be a mobile chip on 13" MBA and iPads just serving one retina screen and then one more modest external.

Click to expand...

That the thing 4k can be rendered at 8k on M1Pro already, therefore one can achieve 4k HiDPI on M1.
With HDMI2.1 they advertise 8k.. but the question is if that is 8k HiDPI (that requires 16k Internal Buffer!!!!) or it's just native 8k with garbage fonts.

macmus12 said:

I don't think you get it still...

MacOS fonts without HiDPI are piece of garbage, unreadable piece of **** which makes by eyes bleed out just by looking at it. I have a SUW Samsung G9 and the fonts with native resolution (without scaling --> no HDPI) looks like that.

To properly draw fonts on the display what MacOS does it render the screen resolution 2x and then shrink it to the screen size. That is form of AA MacOS does. For 5k monitor it requires to render in a "buffer" OS at 10k and then shrink it down to 5k to get the same real estate as one would with native 5k resolution.
With M1 Pro screen needs to be rendered at sub 8k and then shrink to 5k which makes everything bigger (125% ish) and cut the real estate.

So the question is very important, if Apple figure out to increase internal buffer on M2 or we are dealing with same crap as on M1.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I get it. I know full well how it works, thank you very much.

What I'm saying is very few people are running a 30-something inch 5K2K monitor and rendering things at native size and attempt to force HiDPI modes on top of it. Very few. If it was commonplace, Apple would include those modes instead of people having to resort to work-arounds like BetterDisplay. Since extra-large monitors like yours are primarily designed as gaming monitors, I think it may be a while before Apple chooses to accommodate them, if at all.

There's going to be few enough people that at most a handful here are going to have a similar setup as you with a base M2 machine to test it out with and who feel like installing BetterDisplay and messing with their configuration to test our your edge-use case. And dismissing everyone's comments here isn't going to help you get what you're after.

xraydoc said:

Yeah, I get it. I know full well how it works, thank you very much.

What I'm saying is very few people are running a 30-something inch 5K2K monitor and rendering things at native size and attempt to force HiDPI modes on top of it. Very few. If it was commonplace, Apple would include those modes instead of people having to resort to work-arounds like BetterDisplay. Since extra-large monitors like yours are primarily designed as gaming monitors, I think it may be a while before Apple chooses to accommodate them, if at all.

There's going to be few enough people that at most a handful here are going to have a similar setup as you with a base M2 machine to test it out with and who feel like installing BetterDisplay and messing with their configuration to test our your edge-use case. And dismissing everyone's comments here isn't going to help you get what you're after.

Click to expand...

That is just fanatic excuse your are using here... Intel MacOS has no issue with 10k++ support, the problem is with Apple Silicone only.
It's my right to buy a monitor I want and need, classifying G9 as gaming is just ultra stupid...

~49' with 5k2k are good enough and should be supported, Apple has no excuse this is just such a huge production buff.
I don't get it why Apple decides to restrict that now when M series came out...

I have seen people on this forum complaining about this issue too on M1 I am not the first one.
Now I'd like to see someone testing it with M2

macmus12 said:

That is just fanatic excuse your are using here... Intel MacOS has no issue with 10k++ support, the problem is with Apple Silicone only.
It's my right to buy a monitor I want and need, classifying G9 as gaming is just ultra stupid...

~49' with 5k2k are good enough and should be supported, Apple has no excuse this is just such a huge production buff.
I don't get it why Apple decides to restrict that now when M series came out...

I have seen people on this forum complaining about this issue too on M1 I am not the first one.
Now I'd like to see someone testing it with M2

Click to expand...

Mmmkay.

Best of luck to you.

xraydoc said:

Mmmkay.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you I hope It was not sarcastic.

This video shows there are limitations in how the MBP’s HDMI 2.1 is implemented, related to UI scaling. Looks to me the same source of problem with HiDPI?

Chancha said:

This video shows there are limitations in how the MBP’s HDMI 2.1 is implemented, related to UI scaling. Looks to me the same source of problem with HiDPI?

Click to expand...

Could be, but we need someone with 5k monitor and M2 willing to test it out ...

Doesn't matter 5k1k... 5k2k .. or more . The important part is horizontal wide.

macmus12 said:

Anyone ?

Send them feedback. Just be polite so they'll try to fix your problem.