I still use my MBP 13 non retina mid 2012 with Mojave. Catalina is discontinued too so it makes no sense for me to update to catalina and lose 32bit capabilities.
Even with Catalina the MBP from 2012 got 10 years of SW support in case you bought it in 2012.
-> Windows Notebooks from 2012 which came with Windows 8 are still up to date with Windows 10 which will be supported till 2025 (!)

I checked whats available now and what I could use for years. There is the MBP 16, with 32 GB RAM and 2 TB storage costs 4309 Euros (!) in germany.
Is that still worth it? For 10 years max OS support?
I use my MBP to 99% in clam shell mode at home connected to external display.

There would be the possibility of a mac mini, only 16GB RAM possible, 1949 Euros.
Mac Mini was released in 2020 so it would give 7 more years of OS support (we are almost in 2023). Not acceptable for me.

I think my MBP (which cost 1100 Euros back then in 2012) will be finde for another year but what then?
BTW I am no seller, I don't like to sell so I keep my stuff as long as possible.

Meanwhile the prices for apple products are getting crazy high, do they still win new MacOS customers?

If very-long-term software support is your main concern you should use a PC with Linux. That said, only you can know whether an MBP is worth "it" for you, for your budget, your requirements and your preferences.

I still have a 2015 MacBook Pro as a backup laptop and I use it a few times a week. I also have a 2014 MacBook Pro 15 and it's used by a relative on a daily basis.

No one knows if the first gen Macs will get 10 years SW support, but I don't think so.

The 2012-2013 Macs were special. Think of it this way, how many people were daily driving 2002 iMac in 2012?


The 2012-2013 Macs were special in terms of year-to-year performance gains before and after they were released. For example, compare the performance of a Late 2012 iMac, with the maxed out BTO to iMacs that were released just a few years earlier, the Late 2012 iMac with the 3rd gen i7 destroys the old ones. Not even kind of close.

Now, compare that Late 2012 iMac to the 2015 or 2017 iMacs, the difference is not that much.

After the 3rd Generation Intel i-chips, the performance gains were not that much.

I think this was one reason why the older 2012 Macs continued to get OS support for so long.


Comparing to the current state of AS, the M1, M2, and the leak benchmarks, Apple year-to-year chip performance is even worse than after the 3rd gen Intel i-chips. Although, I think that is just a temporary situation due to issues in China, and in the future, Apple will catch up, and outpace Intel.

Torty said:

Meanwhile the prices for apple products are getting crazy high, do they still win new MacOS customers?

Past products were more expensive considering devaluation of USD. The Macs in the 80’s, like the first 128k Mac was sold at $2499. Later models were still quite expensive. Recent lower priced macs are bargains comparably.

Im using my 2012 i7 MacBook Pro to handbrake large videos without a hiccup now.
they will last and still pack a punch!

too bad my MacBook Air 2021 wont tell me to read the original post
instead of just the headline.

Torty said:

I keep my stuff as long as possible.

There comes a point where you’re keeping a device is costing you more money in time, then getting a new one. Unless you consider your time as absolutely worthless, it doesn’t make sense to keep any computer as a daily driver past the point where it’s not supported. Even then, if your time is valuable, it might not be worth it to keep it that long.

A computer isn’t something like a coffee pot where it’s going to function at day one the same as it will even 50 years later. Due to changes in the Internet and software it becomes considerably slower.

Torty said:

Meanwhile the prices for apple products are getting crazy high, do they still win new MacOS customers?

Have you priced a Mac mini or a MacBook Air? They are much cheaper than they were back in the day. To as your question yes, they do win new macOS customers. Although Apple computers can’t compete if you’re just looking at price with some other brands, they have a purpose.

Also, I’d like to add that spending a fortune to buy a high-end Mac so you can browse the web 10 years later on it just doesn’t make any kind of sense. Yes, you can say oh I can still search Google, but you could’ve bought a half a dozen Windows laptops along the way. Then you would have a modern computer instead of one that can barely search Google for less money. Or you could’ve bought two regularly equipped Mac computers, and still come out ahead.

Torty said:

Meanwhile the prices for apple products are getting crazy high, do they still win new MacOS customers?

I paid the same amount for my MacBook Air in 2022 as I did in 2010

the only product that kept the price the same this century is Kawasaki on their Vulcan line.

yeah as others have said, I don't expect newer ones to last that long. The 2012 was an exception. Intel stagnated and 2012 13" were offloaded to education for a long time.

Windows used to support devices for a long time but with 11, they brought it in line with apple's much higher requirements. People with i7 7700K and 32gb of RAM are cut off from support.

MBAir2010 said:

I paid the same amount for my MacBook Air in 2022 as I did in 2010

the only product that kept the price the same this century is Kawasaki on their Vulcan line.

Another comparison. The price of the mid 2012 retina 15" MBP was low $2000's, the price for a 2021 16" M1 Pro MBP is about the same. Comparably the size/weight was almost exactly the same. Way better computing performance offered in these AS Macs.

Torty said:

I checked whats available now and what I could use for years. There is the MBP 16, with 32 GB RAM and 2 TB storage costs 4309 Euros (!) in germany.
Is that still worth it? For 10 years max OS support?
I use my MBP to 99% in clam shell mode at home connected to external display.

There would be the possibility of a mac mini, only 16GB RAM possible, 1949 Euros.
Mac Mini was released in 2020 so it would give 7 more years of OS support (we are almost in 2023). Not acceptable for me.

You're jumping all over the place in terms of hardware configuration. Laptop vs Desktop and regular M1 vs M1 Max. These are for completely different areas of application and performance requirements. Make up your mind what hardware and performance you actually need and go from there. What processor do you actually need and how much memory?

GrumpyCoder said:

Make up your mind what hardware and performance you actually need and go from there. What processor do you actually need and how much memory?

Very common problem with people rethinking what they need vs expense. It's also difficult to compare computer advances from a decade ago without going to a store and doing a hands on demo. Thats what the OP should be doing now. Since he mentioned a 13" MBP first, I recommend he look at the 14" M1 Pro MBP on sale for the holidays first with 13" M2 MBA as a alternative choice.

saudor said:

Windows used to support devices for a long time but with 11, they brought it in line with apple's much higher requirements. People with i7 7700K and 32gb of RAM are cut off from support.

True. Yearly update for macOS makes it more unreliable in recent years with less OS support. Yearly releases only helps marketing team. Its sad that windows also follows same way.

kpcboopathi said:

True. Yearly update for macOS makes it more unreliable in recent years with less OS support. Yearly releases only helps marketing team. Its sad that windows also follows same way.

The Verge's article addressed this question best. (spaced out updates versus annual updates)

Spaced out software updates wouldn’t even be a new idea for Apple, at least on the macOS side of things. Apple spent almost a decade spacing out OS X releases every two years before it brought back annual releases with OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion in 2012.

Spaced out updates aren’t a new idea for Apple, either
Sure, Apple does get some benefit from its current cadence. On a basic level, bundling iOS and macOS updates gives Apple a single, cohesive marketing push, a package of features that it can point to and say, “Look, here are all the ways the new software makes your life better.” The annual releases also mean that Apple can count on journalists writing roundups of the new features every year at WWDC and reviews of those new features in the fall, and Apple might have to risk that consistent coverage if it changes things up.

There is zero chance Apple would cater to spaced out updates as the WWDC event serves as start of a marketing push to show how useful their hardware solutions are with latest OS releases. Every WWDC keynote stands as a good example of why this was chosen vs the older approach.

I wished that Apple would go back to spaced out MacOS updates. Probably will never happen.


Back when Apple was releasing a new MacOS every few years, it seemed like even the most buggy OS versions were still pretty stable.

Now it is like MacOS is in permanent beta if you update on a yearly basis.

Juicy Box said:

Now it is like MacOS is in permanent beta if you update on a yearly basis.

It's particularly important as the initial Big Safari support of the AS platform had its share of problems/limitations, Monterey improved it a lot, now Ventura has greatly speedup a lot of the OS the ways things launch, shutdown, run. I seen nothing but steady improvements with all the various beta cycles in that regard.

To the OP this is a good time to buy your next Mac, as both the hardware/software is fairly stable for many years of usage.

russell_314 said:

There comes a point where you’re keeping a device is costing you more money in time, then getting a new one. Unless you consider your time as absolutely worthless, it doesn’t make sense to keep any computer as a daily driver past the point where it’s not supported. Even then, if your time is valuable, it might not be worth it to keep it that long.

This is only partially acurate. It completely depends on what the computer is being used for. If it’s web browsing and basic computing, using an older computer isn’t an issue if it isn’t supported by newer operating systems.

A 2012 MacBook Pro is a pretty decent computer even today.

If the original poster is concerned that a new M1 Mac won’t be supported or “feel fast enough” I think that’s a baseless concern.

Torty said:

I still use my MBP 13 non retina mid 2012 with Mojave. Catalina is discontinued too so it makes no sense for me to update to catalina and lose 32bit capabilities.
Even with Catalina the MBP from 2012 got 10 years of SW support in case you bought it in 2012.
-> Windows Notebooks from 2012 which came with Windows 8 are still up to date with Windows 10 which will be supported till 2025 (!)

I checked whats available now and what I could use for years. There is the MBP 16, with 32 GB RAM and 2 TB storage costs 4309 Euros (!) in germany.
Is that still worth it? For 10 years max OS support?
I use my MBP to 99% in clam shell mode at home connected to external display.

There would be the possibility of a mac mini, only 16GB RAM possible, 1949 Euros.
Mac Mini was released in 2020 so it would give 7 more years of OS support (we are almost in 2023). Not acceptable for me.

I think my MBP (which cost 1100 Euros back then in 2012) will be finde for another year but what then?
BTW I am no seller, I don't like to sell so I keep my stuff as long as possible.

Meanwhile the prices for apple products are getting crazy high, do they still win new MacOS customers?

Click to expand...

wait till you see the m2 pro prices in europe lol . it's going to be crazy , probably 400euros more expensive

Torty said:

I still use my MBP 13 non retina mid 2012 with Mojave. Catalina is discontinued too so it makes no sense for me to update to catalina and lose 32bit capabilities.
Even with Catalina the MBP from 2012 got 10 years of SW support in case you bought it in 2012.
-> Windows Notebooks from 2012 which came with Windows 8 are still up to date with Windows 10 which will be supported till 2025 (!)

I checked whats available now and what I could use for years. There is the MBP 16, with 32 GB RAM and 2 TB storage costs 4309 Euros (!) in germany.
Is that still worth it? For 10 years max OS support?
I use my MBP to 99% in clam shell mode at home connected to external display.

There would be the possibility of a mac mini, only 16GB RAM possible, 1949 Euros.
Mac Mini was released in 2020 so it would give 7 more years of OS support (we are almost in 2023). Not acceptable for me.

I think my MBP (which cost 1100 Euros back then in 2012) will be finde for another year but what then?
BTW I am no seller, I don't like to sell so I keep my stuff as long as possible.

Meanwhile the prices for apple products are getting crazy high, do they still win new MacOS customers?

Click to expand...

Great questions. Here's how it looks to me:

1. Notice that the value of money appreciates over time. €1100 in 2012 is worth a lot less than that in 2022 and with the way inflation is growing, that gap is growing fast.

What I am suggesting is that part of the price increase is just general price inflation.

2. I have found that Apple laptops - particularly the pro machines - have extremely long lifespans. The one thing that will inevitably worsen over time is the battery, but other than that, the machines usually hold up fantastically.

3. With Apple having now moved Macs to its own silicone, IMO you can feel very safe with how long the current MBP will stay competitive and productive from a performance perspective.

Hope that helps!

Torty said:

I still use my MBP 13 non retina mid 2012 with Mojave. Catalina is discontinued too so it makes no sense for me to update to catalina and lose 32bit capabilities.
Even with Catalina the MBP from 2012 got 10 years of SW support in case you bought it in 2012.
-> Windows Notebooks from 2012 which came with Windows 8 are still up to date with Windows 10 which will be supported till 2025 (!)

@Torty - Yes, I am writing this on my mid-2012 13" MBP right now. I upgraded to 16GB RAM and a 500GB SSD some time ago, and it continues to be my everyday workhorse. Only issue is that I have to run a supported OS for work ... so I installed Ubuntu 22.04.1 on it back in September. Minor issues (mostly Wifi driver issues, occasional touchpad ones), and seeing as it has an Ethernet port and USB-A ports, it is easy enough to fall back to Ethernet and a wired mouse.

As @Basic75 said, if you want long-term software support, Linux is the way to go. In its current configuration, this machine will have support for its current OS until 4/2027 ... which means 15 years of use. But you have to be willing to supply your own "tech support" in overcoming the inevitable challenges of such a setup. A good deal of Apple hardware is excellent for running Linux ... but given that macOS is built on a Unix foundation, it may not make sense to do so until that hardware loses macOS support.

As a broader comment, while the current MacBook Airs and Pros are light-years ahead of those from a decade ago, I hesitate to buy them because it just further locks me in to Apple and its universe. One thing I discovered during my recent macOS-to-Ubuntu transition was that there was very little software that I ran that was either essential or macOS-specific. The biggest loss is native proprietary software (e.g. MS Office and Adobe apps) and a handful of mac-specific apps (like Carbon Copy Cloner), but LibreOffice and OnlyOffice get the job done (with something of a learning curve). VirtualBox, with a Windows 10 virtual machine (which runs fine in its unactivated state), generally allows me to run those few things I can't run on Ubuntu (like TurboTax, MS Office if I need it, and old Adobe software).

I also miss being able to tinker with and upgrade hardware. Particularly with Macs - and to @Torty's original point - the hardware can run for 10+ years, but software support often drops off long before that. In adjusting to Ubuntu, I don't know that I would ever go back. If I did, it would probably be to a mac Mini (sort of the Mac equivalent of the iPhone SE, which I also use), as a way to keep a minimal toehold within the Macworld. I understand that there a plenty of folks who genuinely need what Macs deliver (e.g., for media work), but I am increasingly finding myself to be one who is happier wandering in the vast (and substantially cheaper) fields and forests outside of Apple's walled garden.

Thank you all for your replies. Like wrote above my MBP will be fine for at least one more year I am in no hurry. But it‘s good to read other points of view and make some thoughts before I HAVE to buy a new machine.
Maybe an iPad 12,9 with a mini Linux PC could be a solution too.

We don't control Apple's policy around OS support. However, they do a good job in supporting older hardware and the devices themselves are durable, in my view, more than what you can find elsewhere.

As per your choice, I'd say, you're lucky that they just made the transition to their own chips so if you buy now, you're going to be fine for a while.

And for the exact model, I would say, think about what you are going to be doing with it and try to stay away from customizing the models. You can always buy an external SSD if you don't have a specific reason to have a lot of space on hand.

If you are doing light computing, then a Mac mini or MBA should suffice.
If you really want more storage and ram then try to see if the base 14" and 16" satisfy you. They are on sale and come with 512Gb of storage and 16GBs ram.
base Mac studio if you don't need a laptop, the model cost 2300EUR and comes with 32gb of RAM

if you feel like 512gb of storage is not going to be enough, get the 1TB model.

Torty said:

Thank you all for your replies. Like wrote above my MBP will be fine for at least one more year I am in no hurry. But it‘s good to read other points of view and make some thoughts before I HAVE to buy a new machine.
Maybe an iPad 12,9 with a mini Linux PC could be a solution too.

With the reliable and mature state of dosdude1´s patchers, your 2012 MBP is very capable of running up to Monterey.
Depending on your GPU, with OCLP you can even use Ventura on it (which also depends of how tolerable some minor drawbacks might be to you). Installation and servicing such patched macOS is really not a big deal - we run it on several work machines in our office.
So your old intel MBP will get at least Monterey security updates from Apple for a while or even a whole upgrade to the latest macOS for months/years.

Yes considering you’re still using your 2012 laptop, I’d say that answers your thread title right there. As someone said already, your options stated do seem to be a bit “all over the place,” but since you are used to 13” if you’re fine staying with that then save up and get another 13 or 14”, since you mention the very high cost for the 16” model in euros. Here in the US the jump past 13/14” adds about $1000, maybe more outside the US. Sad but that’s how it is. Alternatively I think a Mac Mini might be a good option, given they perform well long-term and are quite less money than many other options. Personally I prefer laptops though. Good luck with your searching, I agree the cost is a lot but if you consider your 2012 still in use, it’s not much money when you consider it lasting another 10 years.