Atomic Bomb Pioneer J. Robert Oppenheimer Cleared of 'Black Mark' After 68 Years...
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Atomic Bomb Pioneer J. Robert Oppenheimer Cleared of 'Black Mark' After 68 Years
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The Biden administration on Friday reversed a 1954 decision by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) to revoke the security clearance of Robert Oppenheimer, known as the "father of the atomic bomb" for his work on the Manhattan Project.
Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said in a written order that the since-dissolved AEC acted out of political motives when it revoked Oppenheimer's security clearance nearly 70 years ago. Oppenheimer died in 1967.
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From the Santa Fe New Mexican:
Fifty-five years after the death of J. Robert Oppenheimer, the Biden administration has annulled a decades-old decision that stripped weapons security clearance from the wartime head of the Los Alamos Laboratory and celebrated "father of the atomic bomb."
Oppenheimer was credited for his role in the Manhattan Project, a World War II research and development initiative that created the first nuclear weapons at what is now called Los Alamos National Laboratory. He later served as director of Los Alamos National Laboratory and chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission. But in 1954, after Oppenheimer had opposed development of the hydrogen bomb, the AEC revoked his security clearance through what government officials now call a "flawed process that violated the commission's own regulations."
The hearing took place against the backdrop of the "Red Scare" of the 1950s, and the review concluded that Oppenheimer's privileges were revoked not because of security concerns but due to "fundamental defects" in his character based on past ties with communism and associations with communists — which had had been previously cleared in 1947.
Following an investigation, the Energy Department determined the decision that ended Oppenheimer's national security career was aimed at discrediting him in public debates over U.S. weapons policy. The review detailed numerous procedural flaws, concluding, "the system failed ... [and] that a substantial injustice was done to a loyal American."
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This is to distance/clear ourselves, not Oppie, of the black mark; Oppenheimer is dead and doesn't give a shit. I mean, even if he is in some afterlife getting news bulletins from Earth, he's still not going to give a shit.
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I think acknowledging and correcting past mistakes is never a bad thing. No, my problem is that Oppenheimer only got this second look because of his historical prominence. It's another form of "famous people get special treatment."
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Right on all points. And anyway, the revocation of the security clearance during his lifetime achieved the intended result, which was to shut him out of the conversation about the bomb(s).
Frankly I don't see how this process would change for anyone now working with a security clearance. The government issues the clearances, and the government can take them away based on any suspicion of risk. Momentum favors the government in this scenario. Time is on the government's side.-
I think the key point is that America is supposed to be a nation of laws where no-one is above the law.
In this case the rules in place were ignored because it was inconvenient.
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1. you obviously fell for the tactic which was to distract your attention.
2. however irrelevant (not you, the news, because distracting you was the whole point, not acknowledging anything) you're actually right. for the same reason no justice ever would want to hear about "animal rights". the sheer amount of debt is just unassumable. -
Plenty of living people in jail in the US for political reasons
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I'm not sure about this. There certainly are a lot of people in American jails, many for less than "fair" reasons. No doubt about that. However, I doubt there are many in mail for political reasons. In the US, there are unofficial punishments handed out for political reasons (like the one we're talking about for Oppenheimer), but almost no one goes to jail. That's because the American system forces those in power to use other means of punishment in an attempt to maintain a facade of righteousness. In
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There are people who committed crimes for political reasons that are in jail.
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I think we need to make a clear distinction here between people who are in jail/prison for political reasons and people who are in jail/prison for specific crimes they committed for their own political reasons. Someone in jail for being a member of political party A is in jail for political reasons. Someone in jail for taking a loaded AR-15 into a public place and opening fire because they believed the leader of political party A wanted them to, on the other hand, is not in jail for political reasons. They
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Assange comes to mind
It took years for them to find some kind of charge that wouldn't ensnare the papers also, and they've spent years bugging/hounding him and plotting his demise to make an example of him, legal or not.
And they've mostly succeeded, years in solitary and years being screwed with by government actors really does take it's toll.
The government has achieved it's goal, conveying the point to not mess with them, or you'll wish you were dead.
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Well, it was faster than the Catholic Church apologizing to Galileo.
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Well, the side of the story I heard was that Galileo taught that the sun was behind the tides and taught that to his students without a shred of evidence.
He was warned several times and then incarcerated over it.Turns out he was partially correct, but only partially AFAIK.
So. Wbhich side of the story is true? You can label me a conspiracy nut if you want but I have lost all faith in any type of reporting, be it news outlet or history book.
In my point of view, the idea that Luther in his only partially warra
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Galileo also had evidence that the heliocentric model was wrong. It turns out that he was wrong about being wrong too, because the speed of light wasn't known yet - that was a couple hundred years in the future. But based on the evidence that he had obtained, with his own eyes looking through his own telescope at the moons of Jupiter, he knew that what he was teaching about the heavens was wrong.
The saga of Galileo and his adventures with the church is pretty much incomprehensible to us. Even if you were
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But the pope is infallible! Except either Pope Formosus or Pope Stephen VI. The latter had the former dug up and put on trial and convicted him, then had him buried again, then dug up again and thrown in the river. So, logically, one or the other of them must have been fallible. Surely none of the others could have been though?
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well, they don't give a shit about oppenheimer either, so this is most likely just to distance public opinion from something else. it's thematically perfectly suited for the "for decency / the greater good" angle but that's surely just coincidence, that's standard topping for every government bullshit, which is what any government "emits" 100% of the time. anything they do for real, good or bad, usually bad, they do discretely.
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Was Oppenheimer gay? Or transgender? Or black? Why would Biden care about Oppenheimer? And why would a dead person want a security clearance?
Your comment is a sad example of what Slashdot commentary has become.
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Way to further their point.
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This isn't the slash community these are likely paid professional trolls. They show up in every single space trying to recruit people for the right wing.
When you see one don't reply unless they're getting modded up. They do have sock puppet accounts so they will occasionally get modded up by themselves. If that happens then yes go ahead and cut them down a peg but give the mods a little bit of time to mod them down.
Your +5 comment means that their ideas are still visible. For all intents and purpos
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well, biden just started a war (with a little help of some friends). does that count?
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Which war? The U.S. is not at war with anyone.
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Pick one. The US has had a war of ideology with both Russia and China for the last 80 years. In that time the US has conducted more military operations than in the entire history of its founding up to that point. Cold Wars, Proxy wars, War on Terrorism, War on Drugs; you name it, the Us has probably declared war on it.
Simpleton Biden has not exactly gotten us in war yet, but sure seems to be trying too. His actions have prolonged the conflict in Ukraine. He also seems to be damn determined to get us
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You know who prolonged the war more? Putin. The duration could.have been zero days. The war could end tomorrow if Russia just decided to lay off. Russia was never under any threat, they didn't have to invade.
But since they did, and Ukraine has proven more resistant than anyone expected, the west has taken the opportunity to dismantle the Russian war machine at a substantial discount and very low risk to themselves. It's a good deal all around for Biden.
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What the fuck is a war of ideology?
Boeing v. Airbus, Coke v. Pepsi, GMC v. Toyota. The US is totally at war. It's total war.
Last time the US declared war was June 4th 1942.
You betcha, got us OUT of Afghanistan and without that country being destroyed by WAR in the process.
His actions helped ensure Ukraine wins and Ruzzia loses thus significantly decreasing the chance of wider war and risk of nuclear exchange.
Obviously, everything is a war to you.
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Ummmm...the US is in a proxy war with Russia right now. Have you not seen the news? Why else would the media not be lambasting him 24/7 for refusing to try and work out a peaceful resolution between Russia and Ukraine?
Oh...now I remember why...
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There was a peaceful resolution, the trick would be getting people to stick to it.
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A proxy war is not a war. You can stop the semantics.
Further, why would the U.S try to work out a peaceful resolution between Ukraine and Russia when everything is Russia's fault? Russia is the one invading Ukraine and Russia is the one who has violated the Budapest Memorandum which said all parties would respect Ukrainian sovereignty and not do anything to violate it in return for Ukraine giving up its nuclear weapons.
All Russia has to do is remove all their troops from all of Ukrainian soil, pay reparat
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The more of you Russian-paid trolls I read, the more I lean toward an aggressive response to Russia. Poland should take Konigsberg back as the inheritor of East Prussia. Finland should take all of Karelia back as well. Fund the caucus armies to drive out Russia, fund the caucus groups to drive out Russia, fund the Siberian locals movement to drive out Russia. Dismantle the imperial vestige of Russia and its successors until it has nothing with which to fight. At all costs.
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so you are the creep that every few days adds me as a foe, to watch my activity for a few days i presume, then apparently gets bored by my everyday nonsense and removes me as a foe again. nice to finally meet you!
for one i'm very happy to be a source of entertainment for anyone. enjoy! otoh, i'm really sorry that your life is so sad as to having to cater for such entertainment. it is really creepy. anyway, wishing you all the best and hope you get better.
about this post in particular... well... (cough) .
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Turing was, look what they did to him.
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Don't try to rehabilitate deceased people after condemning them during their life. Whether Galileo, Turing or now Oppenheimer. That doesn't do jack shit for them, it only serves as a feel-good token for yourself. Essentially, you're adding insult to injury because you expect to be forgiven for being a totally fucked up asshole in the past.
Own your blunders and crimes. At least have the guts to accept that you fucked up.
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So essentially what you're saying is, never apologize.
I'll have to remember this when I plow over some kid in the street. "Oh well, I screwed up. Do better next time."
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No, they're saying never apologize to a dead person. And I agree.
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Right. Exactly. Never apologize. Never admit you made a mistake.
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Apologizing has two purposes: 1) acknowledging your mistake and taking steps to learn from said mistake and improve your own decision making and 2) making yourself feel better which works directly against purpose 1. When you apologize to a dead person you are doing the second but not the first. That's their point. Only the first purpose has any value. So only when that purpose is in play should apologizing be done.
People have apologized to me about situations that are now over where nothing can be don
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There is a 3rd reason which is to help the other person realize you acknowledge wronging them which might, if you're able to come across as genuine, be helpful to them. I mean, in some cases it may aggravate the wound.. but in cases where it doesn't it may be helpful to the other person to know that you are sorry, especially if the apology includes some sort of remuneration or penance.
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Apologizing to a dead person -- especially a long-dead one -- does nothing. Publicly admitting the error is slightly better. Publicly admitting the error and explaining what you changed to prevent similar errors from happening again is much better.
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If the kid is already dead, then yes, there's no point in apologizing to the kid. You might want to apologize to the parents though...
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...for what somebody did to someone else before you were born.
Give up on the inherited guilt. It is conceited.
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What guilt? I have no guilt. The only conceit I see around here are people such as yourself saying never to apologize for any mistake made. Go on with your life as if nothing happend. Never admit you're wrong.
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You are the only one making this claim.
You are putting words in others mouths and attacking them. This is the classic "Straw Man".
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You cannot apologize to a dead person. An apology means jack shit if the person is no longer able to accept your request for forgiveness.
Because they also can't tell you to stick it.
Essentially, all you do is forgive yourself. And, as already stated, that means jack.
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Usually these sort of things also come with a mea-culpa. In this case, the US government is clearly admitting that they f^%$ed up. It’s still way after the fact, but better late than never.
br/> Of course, his descendants are under no obligation to accept the apology. Because, yea, it’s soooo much easier to apologize than to exert a bit of wisdom and foresight. -
by nasch ( 598556 ) on Saturday December 17, 2022 @03:11PM (#63138602)
Own your blunders and crimes. At least have the guts to accept that you fucked up.
Is that not what this is? "The government shouldn't have done that, and we're reversing the decision because it was wrong."
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An apology without penance is empty.
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And *THAT*'s why the angry responses to this PR move. It's a pure PR move, with no consequence.
OTOH, it's difficult to see what effective apology they could make. The witch-hunt has largely moved on to hunt a different category of witches. And (many of them) don't really realize what they're doing.
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Not necessarily -- an apology given before the same people where the offense was made is still a form of concession, because you give them something they can use on you later: they can say why should we trust you on Y when you admitted you fucked up on X.
Agree that the witchhunt has moved on -- depressingly, from nuclear physics to whether you can say that humans born with penises are not women.
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Some kind of stipend for his next of kin would have been appropriate, but this still strikes me as better than nothing.
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Not even.
Owing up to it would be a comprehensive plan to ensure these types of arbitrary decision don't happen anymore, or are at least reviewed sooner than nearly a century after the fact.
But we already know these things do go on and will continue to go on, so any admittance of wrongdoing rings hollow.
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Your second paragraph completely 100% contradicts your first. Which is it? Should we accept we fucked up, or should we not accept it and pretend the people we condemned deserved it?
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you expect to be forgiven for being a totally fucked up asshole in the past.
The Oppenheimer decision was in 1954. Biden was born in 1942. That 8 year asshole should NEVER be forgiven for fucking up Oppenheimer. What a dickhead.
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Wow, I didn't realize! I completely misunderstood the story. Certainly whoever gave power to an 8 year old to decide ought to be severely reprimanded!
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He understood how to make a bomb and how to organize a large number of scientists to help make the bomb. His understanding of the impact of nuclear weapons on the world on the other hand, I would argue isn't very impressive. Without nuclear weapons, WWIII would have happened in 1962. We might be on WWV at this point without them.
The impact of nuclear weapons on geopolitics is just incredible. And the Ukrainian war is one of the best examples of that you could ever find. Ask yourself, if nuclear weapo
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That would be for the descendents to decide, not you. Getting the family name cleared is powerful for some people.
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Don't try to rehabilitate deceased people after condemning them during their life.
Oppenheimer wasn't wrong. He isn't being rehabilitated. He's being exonerated.
Essentially, you're adding insult to injury because you expect to be forgiven for being a totally fucked up asshole in the past.
Doing so isn't about feeling good, it's about correcting the historical record and calling out the propaganda and the unacknowledged personal and political agendas at play.
Own your blunders and crimes. At least have the guts to accept that you fucked up.
Biden didn't have anything to do with the slandering and humiliation of Robert Oppenheimer.
Biden was 12 years old when the AEC revoked Oppenheimer's security clearance.
If you're looking for someone to blame, try AEC commissioner Lewis Strauss, William Liscum Borden, and Edward Teller.
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A particularly bad case of office politics, nothing more.
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by PPH ( 736903 ) on Saturday December 17, 2022 @04:15PM (#63138752)
Oppenheimer had misgivings about nuclear weapons. Fine. Forget about the communism and other stuff. If I'm putting together a project and selecting staff, I don't want people who question it's morality or other justifications for being done. Never mind the possibility of sabotage (consciously or otherwise). I don't want to have to deal with people that might have emotional problems with what they are doing and perhaps a nervous breakdown on the job. I'm doing you a favor by not hiring you.
If you really have problems with our work, you are more than welcome to write editorials about your opinion. Or even paint a sign and march on the sidewalk in front of our headquarters.
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Doesn't matter. In fact, by remaining on a project you object to, you undermine your own credibility. Want to object? Fine. There's the door.
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When you're dealing with early nuclear scientists or nuclear scientists in general there's so few people who have that skill set that beggars can't be choosers.
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The Holocaust happened because there were people who think like that, and there were enough people who obeyed without question.
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Indeed. It was called the "banality of evil". They caught the guy who designed the gas chambers, and he turned out to be an engineer who viewed it as just another job.
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There are actual investigations that need to be conducted to expose all the corruption, manipulation, and deceipt by various agencies within the US government over the past 100+ years and we are spending time on this nonsense?
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