Hi guys.

I have been using a Windows PC desktop for the past 5 years. I have owned Macs (MBPs, iMacs, even a Mac Pro years ago). This break has given me a "reset" button of sorts, and allowed me to compare the PC experience with the Mac experience quite objectively.

The PC I have been using is a very high-end build, using Alienware for all Peripherals, in the gorgeous Lian Li O11XL case.

Yesterday I bought a new MBP 16", here are my initial thoughts on the product, and experience.

BUILD QUALITY
- The whole MBP feels solid. There is nothing in the PC world which quite compares to Mac construction and rigidity. It's a real joy knowing how well the machine is constructed.

SCREEN
- Screen is amazing - this coming from Alienwares highest-end factory calibrated 240hz G-Sync IPS display. The MBP16" is really responsive, colours are accurate and screen is far brighter than any PC screen I have come across. I was surprised how responsive the screen is.

BATTERY
- I haven't had a MBP for about 5 years, and oh my god the difference. The M1 is magic. The battery percentage barely drops.. The auto-brightness in the screen manages the brightness extremely well.. I have used the battery for a total of 11 hours, including the initial setup - downloading and syncing Gbs of my photo and music libraries, and all iCloud data. In the 11 hours, the battery is still at 30%. That is UNREAL.

OS
- Windows 11 is extremely stable these days, and although they could never do so successfully, they are attempting to blur some lines with Mac OS in terms of design. Using Mac OS makes me feel comfortable and at home. Windows feels like chaos. The clumsy file system, the layout. It's all very messy. You can see Windows is made for productivity, almost an industrial design. Where as Mac OS is designed for the user, and comfort of use. It's an experience.
- Software matches the fundamental design of the OS, this seems to be mostly true with third-party Mac software. Windows is a cluster f**k of 500,000 different developers with their own spin of what their interface should look like. I believe this may be a reflection of the expected target audience of each of these platforms. Windows is for power user/industrial/business customers, where as Mac customers/people who are likely to buy their apps clearly appreciate the aesthetic of Mac, and beauty in design - and this is reflected in their apps.

I'm having a good time being back on Mac and the MBP 16", it is a big change, and I might not stay for long as the gaming addiction keeps pulling me to Windows, but it's one hell of a product, and I'm very impressed with the progress Apple has made with this product in 5 years.

Cheers for reading

Nice review, OP!

The Mac environment you entered is a pretty stark contrast to the one you left 5 years ago, right? Honestly, if you prefer working on laptops, you weren't missing much in those years you were on Windows. Those butterfly switch keyboards were such fragile garbage. I can type fast on just about any keyboard, including those weird fabric folio keyboards for iPads, but the MacBook Pro butterfly switches were a downright bad experience. It's so nice to have "the good keyboards" back.

-BigMac- said:

Hi guys.

I have been using a Windows PC desktop for the past 5 years. I have owned Macs (MBPs, iMacs, even a Mac Pro years ago). This break has given me a "reset" button of sorts, and allowed me to compare the PC experience with the Mac experience quite objectively.

The PC I have been using is a very high-end build, using Alienware for all Peripherals, in the gorgeous Lian Li O11XL case.

Yesterday I bought a new MBP 16", here are my initial thoughts on the product, and experience.

BUILD QUALITY
- The whole MBP feels solid. There is nothing in the PC world which quite compares to Mac construction and rigidity. It's a real joy knowing how well the machine is constructed.

Click to expand...

I would say otherwise. My got my wife HP Pavilion Aero 13 with 1440P display, white body. It looks just as good as MacBook Pro I would say. It is constructed very well, there is very little keyboard flex. Also Dell's XPS, Lenovo's Yoga are all very well constructed laptop. I would say PC world offer just well constructed machines also offers some unique design, such as Asus dual screen Zenbook Pro Duo.

-BigMac- said:

OS
- Windows 11 is extremely stable these days, and although they could never do so successfully, they are attempting to blur some lines with Mac OS in terms of design. Using Mac OS makes me feel comfortable and at home. Windows feels like chaos. The clumsy file system, the layout. It's all very messy. You can see Windows is made for productivity, almost an industrial design. Where as Mac OS is designed for the user, and comfort of use. It's an experience.
- Software matches the fundamental design of the OS, this seems to be mostly true with third-party Mac software. Windows is a cluster f**k of 500,000 different developers with their own spin of what their interface should look like. I believe this may be a reflection of the expected target audience of each of these platforms. Windows is for power user/industrial/business customers,

Click to expand...

I don't quite understand what do you mean by clumsy file system. NTFS is good and it work like it should be. I also can't understand what do you mean by macOS is designed of the user and comfort of use.

Windows isn't hard to use at all, the only reason you feel Windows is messy it is because Windows NEEDS to be backward compatible and its users wants the old style interface. For example, I dislike the new Settings app on Windows and I prefer Control Panel (I also despise macOS Settings, it is very hard to find things that I am looking for). I would argue that the backward compatibility and the mash of two different interface style is where Windows shines.

-BigMac- said:

where as Mac customers/people who are likely to buy their apps clearly appreciate the aesthetic of Mac, and beauty in design - and this is reflected in their apps.

To be honest, Mac App Store is crap. So I don't know why you say such things.

Aoligei said:

I would say otherwise. My got my wife HP Pavilion Aero 13 with 1440P display, white body. It looks just as good as MacBook Pro I would say. It is constructed very well, there is very little keyboard flex. Also Dell's XPS, Lenovo's Yoga are all very well constructed laptop. I would say PC world offer just well constructed machines also offers some unique design, such as Asus dual screen Zenbook Pro Duo.

View attachment 2032993


I don't quite understand what do you mean by clumsy file system. NTFS is good and it work like it should be. I also can't understand what do you mean by macOS is designed of the user and comfort of use.

Windows isn't hard to use at all, the only reason you feel Windows is messy it is because Windows NEEDS to be backward compatible and its users wants the old style interface. For example, I dislike the new Settings app on Windows and I prefer Control Panel (I also despise macOS Settings, it is very hard to find things that I am looking for). I would argue that the backward compatibility and the mash of two different interface style is where Windows shines.

To be honest, Mac App Store is crap. So I don't know why you say such things.

Click to expand...

Wow you come across super judgmental.

Anyway..

1.You say it "looks just as good as a Macbook".. that's very subjective, and your own personal opinion. Just like my opinion, I am allowed to have one which doesn't agree with yours.

2. NTFS is a format.. it has nothing to do with the organization of Windows, and how it manages their file system.
MacOS is far more accessible and user friendly, given you use it the same amount of time as a PC. This is widely accepted consensus.

3. "Windows isn't hard to use at all, the only reason you feel Windows is messy it is because Windows NEEDS to be backward compatible".. so because there is a reason it is clumsy (backwards compatibility), is justification for it being clumsy? Just remove backwards compatibility with 300 different brands, 15 different versions of Windows and 20,000 accessories, and it will be less clumsy. My point stands

4. Again very subjective.

Curious.. since it seems you don't like anything about Apple, why are you following MacRumors? lol

Aoligei said:

I would say otherwise. My got my wife HP Pavilion Aero 13 with 1440P display, white body. It looks just as good as MacBook Pro I would say. It is constructed very well, there is very little keyboard flex. Also Dell's XPS, Lenovo's Yoga are all very well constructed laptop. I would say PC world offer just well constructed machines also offers some unique design, such as Asus dual screen Zenbook Pro Duo.

View attachment 2032993


I don't quite understand what do you mean by clumsy file system. NTFS is good and it work like it should be. I also can't understand what do you mean by macOS is designed of the user and comfort of use.

Windows isn't hard to use at all, the only reason you feel Windows is messy it is because Windows NEEDS to be backward compatible and its users wants the old style interface. For example, I dislike the new Settings app on Windows and I prefer Control Panel (I also despise macOS Settings, it is very hard to find things that I am looking for). I would argue that the backward compatibility and the mash of two different interface style is where Windows shines.

To be honest, Mac App Store is crap. So I don't know why you say such things.

Click to expand...

1. Apple would never stick GPU/processor ads on their palm rests. Just sayin’.

2. Windows laptops, much like Intel MacBooks, are bad at being laptops because they run too hot and loud and battery life is terrible.

3. Windows is an absolute rat’s nest of legacy code and decades of old UI. It’s like a road being repaved every few years, but instead of jackhammering all the old broken asphalt away first, they just leave it there as-is and dump all the new stuff on top of it.

I have to help my son with his Windows gaming PC sometimes. It does not make me long for my PC days. Everything about it just screams “cheap copy” to me.

spiderman0616 said:

1. Apple would never stick GPU/processor ads on their palm rests. Just sayin’.

You can remove those sticker easily. Just saying.

spiderman0616 said:

2. Windows laptops, much like Intel MacBooks, are bad at being laptops because they run too hot and loud and battery life is terrible.

You only saying this because Apple moved to Apple Silicon, and it is your opinion. I never had problem with my Intel Acer laptop and my wife's AMD process .

spiderman0616 said:

3. Windows is an absolute rat’s nest of legacy code and decades of old UI. It’s like a road being repaved every few years, but instead of jackhammering all the old broken asphalt away first, they just leave it there as-is and dump all the new stuff on top of it.

I have to help my son with his Windows gaming PC sometimes. It does not make me long for my PC days. Everything about it just screams “cheap copy” to me.

Which makes Windows much more useful and backward compatible, which is good thing. Apple doesn't care about these, they only want you buy the new shinny things and claim it is good.

-BigMac- said:

Wow you come across super judgmental.

Your whole post is super judgmental in first place and lots of biases.

-BigMac- said:

Anyway..

1.You say it "looks just as good as a Macbook".. that's very subjective, and your own personal opinion. Just like my opinion, I am allowed to have one which doesn't agree with yours.

Your original post says nothing in the PC world comparable to Mac, which is your own opinion as well. You simply ignored all of these good constructed PC, like Dell XPS, made and claim "There is nothing in the PC world which quite compares to Mac construction and rigidity" as a fact.

-BigMac- said:

2. NTFS is a format.. it has nothing to do with the organization of Windows, and how it manages their file system.
MacOS is far more accessible and user friendly, given you use it the same amount of time as a PC. This is widely accepted consensus.

Which again it is your personal opinion, not widely accepted consensus.

-BigMac- said:

3. "Windows isn't hard to use at all, the only reason you feel Windows is messy it is because Windows NEEDS to be backward compatible".. so because there is a reason it is clumsy (backwards compatibility), is justification for it being clumsy? Just remove backwards compatibility with 300 different brands, 15 different versions of Windows and 20,000 accessories, and it will be less clumsy. My point stands

Wow, you do realize the world need backward compatibility. I am glad that I can still run my Windows XP era of software ok my Windows 11 machine.

And your point is just laughable. What make windows so great is you can simply plug things and it will work. I have to personally go around find a PCI-E to USB extension card that compatibility with MacOS, which is ****ing nightmare. When I buy accessories, I don't even need to check compatibility, it will work.

Why do you think less accessories for PC is good thing? Do you only want certain company monopolize accessories market and charging you big money for a simple dongle? It is laughable for me to see people defend Apple and its price of a dongle. $10 bucks for lightning to 3.5nm converter? $25CAD for USB C to USB A Adapter? Thanks god there are bunch of accessories companies making those accessories.

Why do you think less brand produce PC computer is a good thing? Do you think there should be just handful company makes PC? I am grateful for lots of competition around PC market and offer various products that I can choose form.

15 different versions of Windows. Same idea as Apple segment its laptop line up, no difference.

-BigMac- said:

4. Again very subjective.

Curious.. since it seems you don't like anything about Apple, why are you following MacRumors? lol

Because I can. Simple.

Aoligei said:

Your whole post is super judgmental in first place and lots of biases.

Your original post says nothing in the PC world comparable to Mac, which is your own opinion as well. You simply ignored all of these good constructed PC, like Dell XPS, made and claim "There is nothing in the PC world which quite compares to Mac construction and rigidity" as a fact.

Which again it is your personal opinion, not widely accepted consensus.

Wow, you do realize the world need backward compatibility. I am glad that I can still run my Windows XP era of software ok my Windows 11 machine.

And your point is just laughable. What make windows so great is you can simply plug things and it will work. I have to personally go around find a PCI-E to USB extension card that compatibility with MacOS, which is ****ing nightmare. When I buy accessories, I don't even need to check compatibility, it will work.

Why do you think less accessories for PC is good thing? Do you only want certain company monopolize accessories market and charging you big money for a simple dongle? It is laughable for me to see people defend Apple and its price of a dongle. $10 bucks for lightning to 3.5nm converter? $25CAD for USB C to USB A Adapter? Thanks god there are bunch of accessories companies making those accessories.

Why do you think less brand produce PC computer is a good thing? Do you think there should be just handful company makes PC? I am grateful for lots of competition around PC market and offer various products that I can choose form.

15 different versions of Windows. Same idea as Apple segment its laptop line up, no difference.

Because I can. Simple.

Click to expand...

NTFS is not someone's "opinion". It's a file system. The move to NTFS made absolutely no visual difference in Windows and did not change the UI in Windows Explorer.

EDIT: I'm not "just saying" anything because of the move to Apple Silicon. I HATED Apple laptops with Intel chips. They ran way too slow, hot, and loud and I stopped using them years ago and opted for a Mac mini instead. Now that they don't have any of those problems anymore, it makes your responses even more ridiculous.

Aoligei said:

Your whole post is super judgmental in first place and lots of biases.

Your original post says nothing in the PC world comparable to Mac, which is your own opinion as well. You simply ignored all of these good constructed PC, like Dell XPS, made and claim "There is nothing in the PC world which quite compares to Mac construction and rigidity" as a fact.

Which again it is your personal opinion, not widely accepted consensus.

Wow, you do realize the world need backward compatibility. I am glad that I can still run my Windows XP era of software ok my Windows 11 machine.

And your point is just laughable. What make windows so great is you can simply plug things and it will work. I have to personally go around find a PCI-E to USB extension card that compatibility with MacOS, which is ****ing nightmare. When I buy accessories, I don't even need to check compatibility, it will work.

Why do you think less accessories for PC is good thing? Do you only want certain company monopolize accessories market and charging you big money for a simple dongle? It is laughable for me to see people defend Apple and its price of a dongle. $10 bucks for lightning to 3.5nm converter? $25CAD for USB C to USB A Adapter? Thanks god there are bunch of accessories companies making those accessories.

Why do you think less brand produce PC computer is a good thing? Do you think there should be just handful company makes PC? I am grateful for lots of competition around PC market and offer various products that I can choose form.

15 different versions of Windows. Same idea as Apple segment its laptop line up, no difference.

Because I can. Simple.

Click to expand...

It's my thread, and I am sharing my opinion...?

Yes, what I stated is my opinion..?

Cool, you want to run Windows XP.. a lot of people dont... once again, you have your opinion and I have mine.. you're just judging my opinion and saying I'm wrong..

I think you are straight up trolling

-BigMac- said:

It's my thread, and I am sharing my opinion...?

Yes, what I stated is my opinion..?

Cool, you want to run Windows XP.. a lot of people dont... once again, you have your opinion and I have mine.. you're just judging my opinion and saying I'm wrong..

I think you are straight up trolling

Windows takes close to 90% market share prove majority of people do care about backward compatibility.

Well OP, there you have it. You simply bought the wrong computer. Time to pack it back up. 😉

Aoligei said:

Windows takes close to 90% market share prove majority of people do care about backward compatibility.

90% market share doesn't exactly mean the PCs are more desirable. Windows PCs have a larger range of budget, and specs than Macs. 90% of businesses probably can't justify spending 3k on an iMac.. but a $500 Dell tower is in budget.

There is no such thing as a wrong opinion, everyone has their own opinion.

My review is a review of the MacBook Pro, from a Windows users perspective.

Aoligei said:

You are wrong. Windows takes close to 90% market share prove majority of people do care about backward compatibility.

Wrong. Window‘s 90 % (approx) market share says exactly nothing about the reason for this.

And, just saying: The market share says nothing about quality or customer opinion. There are much more Chevys compared to Aston Martins. Yet noone would argue, Astons feature inferior build quality or are less popular

Agree with OP. The Windows file system is not as good simple as MacOS. I, too, don't want to be bothered with the A, B, C drive non-sense -- a relic of yesteryear. I marvel that newly downloaded apps often get placed in the wrong folder -- under the programs file (x/86) versus program files (which a lot of things seem to go to automatically) seemingly randomly. I like things to go where they are supposed to be.

Madhatter32 said:

Agree with OP. The Windows file system is not as good simple as MacOS. I, too, don't want to be bothered with the A, B, C drive non-sense -- a relic of yesteryear. I marvel that newly downloaded apps often get placed in the wrong folder -- under the programs file (x/86) versus program files (which a lot of things seem to go to automatically) seemingly randomly. I like things to go where they are supposed to be.

Also, I hate the „virtual home folder“ idea.

R

Madhatter32 said:

Agree with OP. The Windows file system is not as good simple as MacOS. I, too, don't want to be bothered with the A, B, C drive non-sense -- a relic of yesteryear. I marvel that newly downloaded apps often get placed in the wrong folder -- under the programs file (x/86) versus program files (which a lot of things seem to go to automatically) seemingly randomly. I like things to go where they are supposed to be.

I’m really surprised Microsoft havent addressed these aspects of the OS over the years.

I can see how they could be useful for powerusers.. but for the average joe at home.. its messy and unnecesary

Madhatter32 said:

Agree with OP. The Windows file system is not as good simple as MacOS. I, too, don't want to be bothered with the A, B, C drive non-sense -- a relic of yesteryear. I marvel that newly downloaded apps often get placed in the wrong folder -- under the programs file (x/86) versus program files (which a lot of things seem to go to automatically) seemingly randomly. I like things to go where they are supposed to be.

You don’t need A,B,C drive with Windows. You can just have one HDD one partition.

In same sense, A, B, C drive is more easier for new computer users or people who doesn’t know computer.

Do you really think it is easier to point where is the file location to a average folks with A/B/C drive or you tell them this is located at /dev/sda1?

Most Windows application will default its install location into C:\Program File and place some file into various location for different purposes. Most people won’t even bother to know how and where program being installed.

Romain_H said:

Wrong. Window‘s 90 % (approx) market share says exactly nothing about the reason for this.

And, just saying: The market share says nothing about quality or customer opinion. There are much more Chevys compared to Aston Martins. Yet noone would argue, Astons feature inferior build quality or are less popular

90% market share means Microsoft has to consider different need for different people. This is why Windows has different aspect of things. Some of you may consider some aspect of Windows is messy and unnecessary, but I would argue it is very necessary.

For example, many of you guys consider Windows has both Settings app and Control Panel is feature duplication and unnecessary. But I would argue, people like me or other people who familiar with Control Panel, are far more efficient than Settings. I rather have Control Panel than Settings. And I found Settings app in MacOS is very confusing and hard to use.

Apple can afford to kill of some features or some aspect of MacOS, because ultimately MacOS has tiny percentage of market share. But even with MacOS you still have things that from 20 or 30 years ago.

i do have both mac and pc (quite good one - from work). There is no term of comparison.
Windows (especially win11) is a pure trash. but you know...the grapes are sour...

Aoligei said:

But I would argue, people like me or other people who familiar with Control Panel, are far more efficient than Settings. I rather have Control Panel than Settings.

Why? I cannot understand. Isn't one location superior, and less confusing, than two?

Madhatter32 said:

Why? I cannot understand. Isn't one location superior, and less confusing, than two?

No. If you have ever used Control Panel, you will know. Changing settings is much easier with Control Panel than Settings App.

Aoligei said:

I would say otherwise. My got my wife HP Pavilion Aero 13 with 1440P display, white body. It looks just as good as MacBook Pro I would say. It is constructed very well, there is very little keyboard flex. Also Dell's XPS, Lenovo's Yoga are all very well constructed laptop. I would say PC world offer just well constructed machines also offers some unique design, such as Asus dual screen Zenbook Pro Duo.

View attachment 2032993


I don't quite understand what do you mean by clumsy file system. NTFS is good and it work like it should be. I also can't understand what do you mean by macOS is designed of the user and comfort of use.

Windows isn't hard to use at all, the only reason you feel Windows is messy it is because Windows NEEDS to be backward compatible and its users wants the old style interface. For example, I dislike the new Settings app on Windows and I prefer Control Panel (I also despise macOS Settings, it is very hard to find things that I am looking for). I would argue that the backward compatibility and the mash of two different interface style is where Windows shines.

To be honest, Mac App Store is crap. So I don't know why you say such things.

Click to expand...

How long have you owned the aero for? I have a chance to get a 1440p ceramic white model as a new open box for $500 (canadian) for my kid for school. Seems like such a. Great value for what you get

1BadManVan said:

How long have you owned the aero for? I have a chance to get a 1440p ceramic white model as a new open box for $500 (canadian) for my kid for school. Seems like such a. Great value for what you get.

It is ceramic white model, AMD Ryzen 5, 8GB DDR4, 500GB NVME. I got it through Costco where it got $200 discount last December I think. We got for $699 I believe. My wife had Acer Swift 3 where I passed to her, she loved this Ceramic white model, so I brought for her. Then she gave the Acer back to me.

Aoligei said:

No. If you have ever used Control Panel, you will know. Changing settings is much easier with Control Panel than Settings App.

I actually have used both. I never remember where to go when I need to do something. Also, I really do not find changing settings in Settings to be difficult -- and the user interface is actually consistent with the OS's GUI -- so I think it's better than Control Panel.

Anyway, I really never understood why anyone would prefer to have two separate locations for system controls/settings. I still do not after your explanation either. It is so inefficient. I understand it has something to do with legacy software within Windows -- dating back to the DOS days -- on why it has been not been integrated. I could be wrong though.

Aoligei said:

It is ceramic white model, AMD Ryzen 5, 8GB DDR4, 500GB NVME. I got it through Costco where it got $200 discount last December I think. We got for $699 I believe. My wife had Acer Swift 3 where I passed to her, she loved this Ceramic white model, so I brought for her. Then she gave the Acer back to me.

Exact model and specs I’m looking for him, it’s purely for school work. Seems to show good battery life, a nice bright screen and the fans appear to stay fairly quiet. He tried using an old gaming laptop he has last year but it weighs a ton,barely any battery life and the fans ramp up just opening a web browser lol.