Crypto Lender Celsius Pauses Withdrawals, Transfers Citing 'Extreme Market Condi...
source link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/22/06/13/140220/crypto-lender-celsius-pauses-withdrawals-transfers-citing-extreme-market-conditions
Go to the source link to view the article. You can view the picture content, updated content and better typesetting reading experience. If the link is broken, please click the button below to view the snapshot at that time.
Crypto Lender Celsius Pauses Withdrawals, Transfers Citing 'Extreme Market Conditions'
Slashdot is powered by your submissions, so send in your scoop
binspamdupenotthebestofftopicslownewsdaystalestupid freshfunnyinsightfulinterestingmaybe offtopicflamebaittrollredundantoverrated insightfulinterestinginformativefunnyunderrated descriptive typodupeerror
Do you have a GitHub project? Now you can sync your releases automatically with SourceForge and take advantage of both platforms.
Do you have a GitHub project? Now you can automatically sync your releases to SourceForge & take advantage of both platforms. The GitHub Import Tool allows you to quickly & easily import your GitHub project repos, releases, issues, & wiki to SourceForge with a few clicks. Then your future releases will be synced to SourceForge automatically. Your project will reach over 35 million more people per month and you’ll get detailed download statistics.
Sync Now
-
›
-
-
To be fair, the ice cream machine would be making those sounds, if it were actually working...
-
-
Go on, take the money and run!
-
by Anonymous Coward on Monday June 13, 2022 @11:36AM (#62615536)
That was, obviously, always the plan. Right from the get-go. EVERY investment scheme in all of history that has PROMISED guaranteed interest rate returns, particularly guaranteed returns over 12%, has been a scam. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of Finance knows this. The company founders knew that one day everything would come crashing down - you can bet that a not insignificant portion of their planning efforts has gone into their "exit plan".
-
-
Celsius could have avoided negative returns by converting to Kelvin. Absolutely.
-
Or Dobbs? Might as well bust out the transmogrifier at this point
-
Not Hobbes? Who is this Dobbs?
-
-
-
-
by null etc. ( 524767 ) on Monday June 13, 2022 @10:10AM (#62615336)
Well, at least it's decentralized, right guys?
-
Don't worry, folks will be along shortly with a 'no true scotsman' argument about how yet another cryptocurrency based institution isn't 'true' crypto and therefore somehow shouldn't count in any evaluation about the reality of good old anarcho-capitalist style cryptocurrency.
-
To be fair, it is decentralized if you always keep your holdings in your own wallet and don't keep anything on an exchange.
That being said, doing so is a pain in the ass and not nearly as convenient as just keeping it on the exchange. Until the exchange goes *pop* and takes all of your shit with them.
You know, just like pre-FDIC banks.
-
To be fair, it is decentralized if you always keep your holdings in your own wallet and don't keep anything on an exchange.
Question, because I truly don't know this stuff. If you have your wallet with all your information in it, and the exchange goes bust, can you take your wallet to a different exchange and still get access to your stuff?-
The point of the exchange is it increases the liquidity of your cryptocurrency holdings in certain useful ways. The downside of the exchange is your holdings are effectively owned by the exchange -- you gave it to them to hold in your name. That is also a kind of "increased liquidity" -- you can suddenly lose all.
-
It's not just that. The people who can't get their "money" now are possibly smart(ish) in that they recognize a working financial system requires the ability to issue credit. They're dumb because they've managed to overlook the fact that the whole creating your own currency thing has been tried many times in the past and ended with pretty predictable results.
-
-
It does have the distinction to be the first decentralized "banking" crash. So at least it should make history. That and $5 will get you a coffee at Starbucks.
-
-
Meanwhile: Bitcoin is headed towards 20.
Good riddance.
-
Why do you hate 3rd world countries so much?
-
We don't. We love 3rd world countries, that's why we all hope bitcoin will disappear before another 3rd world country has a retarded leader pull an El Salvador style scam fucking over its citizens.
-
-
-
-
I sincerely doubt that the crypto folks will get any sort of bailout.
the banks got a bailout because the toxic mortgage securities had spread to so many financial institutions that it could put them into insolvency, which would then affect the bank accounts of every single American. TARP was in fact a method to make sure the banks had liquidity to protect the average American from the banks failing. Also, if you look at the actual hard results of TARP (I'm not taking the extenuating effects of TARP on the economy to prop it up, as that is debatable), the government ultimately netted about a $66B written off loss in TARP, but of course following that had an impressive growth economy for over 10 years. But that's besides the point.
Crypto on the other hand has none of the political backing the banks had. It has very little chance of spreading through the financial system to hit the average American's bank account. There is really no incentive for the government to bail them out, so I see no reason why they wouldn't just let those guys crash and burn.
-
-
I disagree, part of the whole advocacy of crypto was toward the end of wanting to supersede the USD with something else. There would be an inclination to let those that tossed their lot in with such a motivation. If the strategy was to go outside the USD system, then the USD system bailing them out wouldn't make much sense. In short, they would probably want to penalize behaviors that undermine them, rather than reward them so they'll use those rewards to turn around and try again somehow.
In terms that you proved energy was used in the establishment of a particular unit of currency, that is not intrinsic value. The limited supply does not confer intrinsic value, it's just simply an abstract fact that is given value only if people want to give it value.
-
It does not because that energy put into mining it is gone, cannot be traded back out for equivalent energy in return unless I happen to trade it back out for USD and buy new energy with it, which just makes the whole affair kindof pointless? Crypto is not a store of energy like grain or oil or a car or cattle. The energy put into it is only worth something via speculation.
El Salvador's GDP is $25B so right away that's $21B less than Musk is planning to buy Twitter for and $36B less than what Broadcom is
-
Crypto has operated as a bailout from the beginning. The original revolution, which crypto became an instrument of, was targeted at the federal reserve and oriented toward the idea of something more like a gold backed currency. With excessive money printing, crypto operates like a like a monetary reservoir which can be filled over one period hiding inflation, an emptied over another causing mass inflation, and transferring wealth to crypto investors who didnt produce anything. It is evil, but the same inves
-
Sorry you are wrong. You have concluded that since the anarcho-capitalists have succeeded in preventing the minimum wage from rising, we should also let them make the currency unstable. No.
-
-
-
-
-
This is good for Bitcoin.
-
-
-
Almost all of them aren't even links to JPGs, they're just numbers that some people associate with a link to a JPG. Neither the link, nor the JPG is inherent to the number, unless very specifically stated as such (like in the Bored Ape club).
-
So much this. When you listen to crypto maxis and they invariable make an argument to the tune of "with NFTs, you actually OWN the asset and it cannot be taken away from you". And they just gloss over the fact that the entire infrastructure (website, database, CDN, hosting, etc.) is just as vulnerable as if you had bought it from a "web 2.0" site.
-
-
-
-
You sound like every day trader and speculator that has lost their ass in a market bubble. "It's always gone up before, why wouldn't it go up again?" Answer: because people smarter than you are getting the fuck out and taking their money to more reliable returns due to external market conditions they see and you don't.
The people who "drive far better cars" - whatever that's supposed to indicate - do so because they know when to get out and make decisions based on aggregating information together to get a
-
You forgot to mention one important - the game is rigged to suit them and they still cheat,
-
Meh. I mined some previously, and view it as nonsensical play money. Should I have sold it? Maybe. But I'll sit on it, and if it goes up again I'll be happy. If it doesn't, I've got no real skin in the game, other than some electric bills 6 years ago, so I"m not invested( mentally) in it.
I would differ with your opinion, though. Most people follow the trend, whatever the trend is. Smart money often resists the trend and goes against the tide--but only if they believe in the fundamentals of the action.
-
If you mined it six years ago, surely youâ(TM)re still up along way. Why not cash in now while youâ(TM)re guaranteed something?
-
-
-
I guarantee you these people have not have nor will ever have their better car as long as I've had my shitty one. My industry has a few rich people as well. And that's really the thing isn't it "survivor bias". For every one person driving a Ferrari in the Cyrpto world there are a million who have lost considerable amounts of their savings.
The big difference between my industry (you can insert any normal industry here, no need to be specific), the rich people in it are likely to stay rich and their grand ch
-
-
-
-
It is ironic how much cryptocurrency stuff mirrors unregulated banking from the 1900s-1920s era. Even more interesting is how tough it is to get out of a cryptocurrency should a run happen. Everything from gas or transaction prices going up exponentially to the trading network not being able to process the requests unless one pays for higher priority, to just only a certain number of transactions max being able to be done per unit time.
Easy in, and if one quietly is dumping, easy out. However, when the music stops, kiss your investment good bye.
-
It's just the same thing, but electronic. If you were involved in a bank run in the 1920s you could stand in line with the peasants (limited transaction rate) or you could bribe somebody to let you skip it ("gas" fees).
-
It is ironic how much cryptocurrency stuff mirrors unregulated banking from the 1900s-1920s era
It's not ironic at all. The whole point of cryptocurrency is to avoid regulation, so it should be no surprise that it has recreated the problems of an unregulated financial system. This was 100% a predictable- and predicted- outcome. The only reason people are surprised is because they didn't listen to the warnings.
-
-
-
Binance too, for "technical reasons":/
Pyramid schemes take a long time to build up but, generally, unravel relatively fast. The difference with crypto is that, rather than a single party that benefits, this has a lot of interested players with a lot to lose. So, there may be a concerted effort to prop it up. But I suspect that the end result will be all the same.
-
They can also do more to try and prop it up. Cryptocurrency's only real innovation is the lack of a clearly responsible party, i.e. Bernie Madoff. Much less likely for any one person to go to prison when it all blows up.
All of the finance-like terminology they adopted really brought in the suckers.-
We need to bring back that "I LOOOVE BITCONNECT!" guy.
-
-
Such a surprise...
-
I'm sorry are we still talking about crypto here? Because this sounds exactly like the US Stock Market.
The "difference" here. That's fucking cute.
-
this is going to be a broken record bro. in 2008 they didnt learn either apparrently. lemme grab my popcorn cause my little starter home is paid off and i dont own a car.
-
-
Bitfinex have suspended crypto withdrawals. Binance has stopped people taking their Bitcoin out because of a 'stuck transaction'.
Can't let the proles cash in their crypto while the whales unload their bags.
-
*citation needed
-
-
What in the h*ll is a Pension Fund doing investing in Crypto?! Whoever approved that should be fired for stupidity. I normally don't like to use that word but in this case it fits. It is bad enough that I see TV advertisements telling individual investors that they can invest in Crypto for their individual retirement accounts but I figure that an individual has the right to be stupid. But large Pension funds should not be allowed to do that.
-
I think they invested in Celsius, not actual crypt. And it's a massive, massive pension fund with several little VC offshoots. I doubt my grandparents' futures are at stake here.
-
You say that, as if a pension fund called "Blackrock", would make everyone magically feel better.
That "massive, massive" excuse, is the reason people now worry about massive amounts of corruption.
-
-
All pension funds have an "Extremely High Risk" wallet, and I imagine this 'investment' was one of those.
If not, then yes, heads need to roll...
-
It's Quebec. Their public pension funds can't get any more screwed up, so why not?
-
Don't worry, it's a public pension fund, taxpayers will "top it up" with their money.
-
Well, they are the ones getting the pensions so seems fair.
-
Just make sure you work for the government, so you can "negotiate" as much as you can without fear of getting fired. Also, the current generation doesn't have an obligation to "top up" the pension pots of the previous generation, but here we are, the law forcing us to do it regardless. It's the reason boomers and Gen-X'ers are whining about a non-existent "demographic collapse" despite the fact most young people can't find a home to live in. I mean, you can't have a demographic collapse and have housing pri
-
-
-
-
-
-
Well, yes. But that also happens to remove all advantages. And you do not really believe any of those "exchanges" can qualify for a banking license?
-
Some have tried, they basically got laughed out of the room.
And yes, the whole 'crypto' business is just like 'banking' back in the 1800's.
-
Having a bit of an idea what getting a banking licence actually involves, that is the expected result.
Indeed. There are no really new scams. Just old ones adapted to the current times.
-
-
-
-
People old enough to remember what is a bank run would probably be less susceptible to these crypto scams.
To those too young to have seen what a bank run looks like, this is it. Don't you love Deregulated Finance? You can get to experience all the banking scams in the past two hundred years in internet time!
-
-
A run on the bank is when people decide (for whatever reason) that a bank is failing, and they rush to get their money out before it fails. Since the bank does not have enough reserves to cover everyone, people are unable to get their money. This leaves the bank insolvent and the depositors do, in fact, lose their deposits. Stopping bank runs is a major purpose of the FDIC - because deposits are insured people do not have to worry about the bank failing. Even if it does, their deposits are protected.
-
-
-
Not that I'm a huge fan of regulation, but you're going to see a lot of these "fly by night" beneficiaries of the crypto ponzi ecosystem vanish into the woodwork as the prices of these "currencies" implode.
Here's a bird's eye view of what happens in this ecosystem:
https://www.comparitech.com/cr... [comparitech.com]
You'll see the shenanigans accelerate as people get (more) desperate.
-
... stealing your money was in the contract all 1.7 million customers signed. If it is not in the contract then a Class Action is the next logical step.
-
It stopped being your 'money' the moment you transferred your numbers to the wallet of the exchange.
And since there's no lawfully protected or covered definition of the value of any crypto coin, good luck trying to get your 'money' back in court.
-
A class action will do nothing. In a bankruptcy, your assets were loaned to them as unsecured credit - the lowest rung on the debt recovery ladder. They didn't offer you any collateral - just the promise that the money is still yours. In bankruptcy, all of the creditors who gave them secured credit will get their money back first. Lawsuit or not, there won't be enough left to cover the people who transferred their money into Celsius.
-
-
... Coinbase warned that people might loose *all* of their money invested in "crypto" using their service. But hey, this will not really happen, right?
You had a 1-month warning, now this. It is full, completely full of red flags everywhere.
-
The biggest read flag is the behavior of the customers though.
-
When they made that announcement, the little crypto I have was moved to a hardware wallet to "protect" the small amount of ETH that I've mined to dick around with crypto (it's only protected from exchange theft, still at risk to general collapse). Anyone who left their money sitting on someone else's system with no expectation of guarantee or insurance is just a dumbass when they're literally warning you that it's really their money if you leave it there.
-
-
Crypto currencies are valued entirely by trust, largely a trust that your funds go up in value and you can trade them as you want. By pausing trading they just burnt the only trust they had. You can do that only if you are backed by a central bank to hold your value stable.
Companies are people. We need to discuss offering mental health services to these suicidal companies.:-)
-
People who fail to understand Satoshi will always be easy prey. It's fraud - don't expect too many people to get in the way of prosecution.
Not your keys, not your crypto. If you can't keep 20 words safe and available, DON'T get into investment or smart contracts, for Pete's sake. Buy bullion or coins - that's easy for everybody.
-
Cryptocurrencies had promise, but the above info is not really communicated to people who want to dabble in that market. People often want to "buy Bitcoin", so they wind up buying from an exchange with a custodial wallet... then are subject to the exchange's whims of what they can do with the currency, or even lose everything all together if the exchange's master key gets swiped.
It is a minefield out there. Even factoring out how gas and transaction fees can go up exponentially if there is a run, users ne
-
-
-
Fractional reserve lending isn't all that risky. A well-managed bank has multiple funding sources. They don't *like* using expensive ones but they exist. Paycheck direct deposits provide a nearly-free funding source. Banks can use inter-bank loans as well as the federal reserve discount window (as a last resort). Also most banks offer medium-term deposits at better rates (i.e. CDs) as well as issue medium-term bonds so that not all of their funding is short-term.
However, if you look at where profits
-
-
Only without a lender of last resort available to bail them out. And without deposit insurance. They took short term deposits and made long term loans, a rookie mistake in any form of banking. What will be interesting to see is how much their operating costs and economically unviable "interest" payments have eaten into depositor funds. That is, do they have just a liquidity crisis or a full solvency crisis? My bet is the latter but, since, they're largely unregulated, we won't actually find out until the du
-
Many banks successfully take short-term deposits and make long-term loans. In fact that's kind of the basic model of banking. But as you said, banks usually have multiple means of financing their activity including inter-bank loans. There have been recent threads about runs on solvent banks and I've argued that a run on a solvent bank wont' make it insolvent *because* of all of the means such a bank has to secure short-term funding. On the other hand, a run on a bank without backup funding sources (which is what we have here except it's not a bank just a company that operates like a bank without the knowledge, experience, or regulatory environment) can be a disaster. This type of "crypto" bank is even worse because there is likely exactly *zero* secondary markets for their loans, no repo market, and as you have said, no lenders of last resort.
The short-term to long-term arbitrage can be done profitably even by small banks. I used to own investment real estate in rural Ohio and had talked to local bankers. 10-year variable-rate mortgages were held on the bank's balance sheet. They had about a 2% gross margin between the mortgage rate and their deposit rate. They knew that, in the worst case, they could take a squeeze to 1% by offering higher deposit rates and there was little concern about a run thanks to FDIC insurance
Thirty year fixed was too risky. They would originate for local buyers but the mortgages were all sold to government agencies.
Who are they lending to who is paying more than 18% interest? And why would depositors not realize that a "bank" paying 18% interest (and presumably charging 20%+ interest) obviously has clientele that aren't very credit worthy! I guess the same people who put their IRAs in crypto and brag about getting 18% on their money tax free. SMH
-
My guess is they are dead and are just trying to delay the inevitable. Maybe they just want to rob themselves before the inevitable collapse and run.
Well, what do you except from fraudulent, no oversight, no regulation, no insurance and no reserves "banking"? The safety net in regular banking is there because all of these scams have been done before.
-
Yeah sure, "mistake". This is why I am not quick to condemn other cryptocurrency exchanges. These guys were obvious frauds, promising high yields with zero risk or loss, and also offering the ability to cash out instantly on top.
-
-
Don't answer that, I know they are. This is a completely reliable sign of a scam: Interest rates you could normally not get anywhere.
-
It's like 1929 but with extra steps. Literally.:-/
-
Now if they had used a superior name, like Fahrenheit, 100 would currently be 212 which already looks better; on the other hand 0 would in fact be (-32) which is probably closer to where they are right now.
-
"Pausing Withdrawals"
aka "We lost our shirt so we're keeping your money" -
For those who don't know asshole businessmen have been offloading worthless assets on public pension funds for decades now. It's a great scam. You get the local politicians to put a corrupt asshole in charge of the pension and he buys whatever he's told. If the pension fails that's all the better, because you can take the pension away from the employees and pocket that money for yourself.
Still, I would've thought Canada would be smarter, they usually are. -
1.7 mill people are going to be homeless - quick buy shares in shopping carts - there is going to be a run on them.
-
And here I thought camping supplies would be the hot ticket, as REI becomes the next Stop in this Game.
-
Recommend
About Joyk
Aggregate valuable and interesting links.
Joyk means Joy of geeK