4

Why more and more Div4?

 2 years ago
source link: https://codeforces.com/blog/entry/102300?f0a28=1
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Well, it is meaningless

5 days ago, # |

← Rev. 3 →  

-35

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5 days ago, # |

← Rev. 3 →  

-57

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  • 5 days ago, # ^ |

    Meaningful as in gaining rating? Or as in learning new concepts? I feel like div 4s do not provide any interesting concepts that could help newbies/pupils unlike div 3s. Like solving problems with rating under 1300 wouldn't get you far as they are just simple observation greedy problems, and we already get enough of them from div 3s and the first three problems of div 2s, so having more div 4s would be somewhat redundant in terms of training/learning, but that's just my opinion ¯_(ツ)_/¯.

    • 4 days ago, # ^ |

      ← Rev. 2 →  

      -15

      The first div4 (from 2020) had tougher problems in terms of rating, even a 1600. So, the difficulty of div 4 problems is not rigid and can be changed as suitable.

    • 46 hours ago, # ^ |

      So why are you not red, haha

      • 46 hours ago, # ^ |

        ← Rev. 2 →  

        -16

  • 4 days ago, # ^ |

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    • 4 days ago, # ^ |

      I think you misunderstood me...

      I mean those who have lower ratings are more possible to solve a meaningful problem for them in div.4 because now all of those problems have difficulties under 1400...

5 days ago, # |

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  • 5 days ago, # ^ |

    i think cf should made more good div.1/2 instead div4, and for beginners, div3's difficulty is suitable.

    • 5 days ago, # ^ |

      ← Rev. 2 →  

      -94

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      • 5 days ago, # ^ |

        Although the queue is almost empty,the problems are good enough for learners

    • 5 days ago, # ^ |

      ← Rev. 3 →  

      +156

      i think cf should made more good div.1/2 instead div4

      For the record, Mike himself has stated that the rate of Div 1s and 2s have nothing to do with the rate of Div 4s (they're literally made by different people!). Quote:

      I'd like to repeat: Div. 3 and Div. 4 rounds doesn't affect the rate of Div. 1 and Div. 2 rounds. The coordinators focus only on Div. 1 and Div. 2 rounds. All Div3 (and future, if any, Div4) rounds are prepared without any help from the coordinators.

      The implication is that just because there's no Div 4, doesn't mean there will magically be a Div 1 or 2. It's more likely there would just be no contest.

      • 5 days ago, # ^ |

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        • 5 days ago, # ^ |

          Mike?

      • 4 days ago, # ^ |

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        • 4 days ago, # ^ |

          I never disagreed with you, I'm just saying that we should base arguments on true facts. It's a misconception that the rate of Div 4s affect the rate of Div 1/2s.

        • 3 days ago, # ^ |

          Why are you so concerned if you are not in div 2 or below.Who asked you to give div 2 or below?

        • 68 minutes ago, # ^ |

          ← Rev. 2 →  

          0

          Div4 is easy for you, but it is very hard for me. I think you don't understand that.

5 days ago, # |

← Rev. 2 →  

+37

I'm with you on this one. There is no need for div 4 as div 3 was enough for absolute beginners. and div 4 is just the fastest finger first competition. And in my opinion, it would dishearten a lot of good programmers because they are good at pushing their limits in contests to solve more difficult problems and are not just typing masters.

Div 4 is good but doesn't feel like a codeforces round. It feels different from all other contests.

  • 3 days ago, # ^ |

    Just a suggestion

    Spoiler

4 days ago, # |

I usually can't solve a single problem on divs 1 through 3, but managed to solve problem A of the most recent div 4. Solving a problem on any contest really motivates beginners like myself when compared to getting a 0, and I'm finally able to have a proper rating.

4 days ago, # |

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  • 4 days ago, # ^ |

    i think for everyone is meaningless. div4 only can take u some unreal rating

4 days ago, # |

Number of (newbies+pupils) is very large and as a result solving more problem in a single contest will boost their confidence. If it doesn't change the rate of div 1,2 then it is good.

  • 4 days ago, # ^ |

    cf rating's function is reflecting your real ability, but not to gaining your confidence

    • 4 days ago, # ^ |

      But is there not perhaps something to be gained by giving the very many people in that rating bracket the opportunity to solve more than just problems A and B in a contest? The reality is that a Div 2 contest will usually have an 800, maybe a 1000-1100, then perhaps something 1500+ as problem C. In Global Rounds usually half the problems are inaccessible to people below GM.

      Div 4 provides a platform for people in the lower brackets to solve multiple problems in the region of 1200 to 1500 in a contest environment. I think if it has been confirmed that there is no impact on the number of Div 1 and Div 2 contests then there can be no possible reason to complain about allowing people the chance to do that — it has no material impact on someone of a high rating.

      • 3 days ago, # ^ |

        But it made cf rating more unreal

        • 3 days ago, # ^ |

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          • 3 days ago, # ^ |

            It will not affect high rating users, But it made some pupils/newbies' CURRENT RATING unreal.

            CF rating is not only for high rating users

      • 28 hours ago, # ^ |

        I don't really understand why people think this way... If I'm doing a contest, unless I'm doing it to win (which is unrealistic for my skill level) I do it because I expect to have fun challenging myself.

        Spending half of the contest solving problems that I already know how to solve is the opposite of that and extremely boring. In fact, I think when I was purple and could only solve A and B, contests were more fun as I would quickly reach C and go "oh this is an interesting problem, let's think about it!" (I also disagree with the clarification of such problems as "inaccessible": a specialist solved H in the last global round, for example, and none of the previous problems required specialized knowledge.)

        Speaking of which, can we get div1 rounds with fewer problems so I can start struggling quicker, please? :)

        • 27 hours ago, # ^ |

          Who’s to say they already know how to solve them? That’s the whole point — they’re in a range where for this user group they may or may not be things they already know; there are merits to both. Either you’re putting into practice your knowledge or you’re learning new material. That means that lots of problems fall precisely into that bracket of “oh this is an interesting problem, let’s think about it” for the target audience of Div 4 contests. 14% of rated candidates scored a full house on the last Div 4 contest. Perhaps that is slightly high but it suggests to me that at least 86% of candidates found something that challenged them, and probably a chunk of those who managed the perfect score too.

          As for a specialist solving H, obviously sometimes anomalous things happen. If you’re judging things on sample sizes of one then I can tell you some other pretty crazy stuff. I’m talking about for the overwhelming majority of people, and I think you know that.

4 days ago, # |

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4 days ago, # |

So I can be VIP-tester

  • 4 days ago, # ^ |

    Based

4 days ago, # |

i also want more div2/div1 round rather than more div3/div4.

4 days ago, # |

It's just fun.

4 days ago, # |

From the comments so far, it seems that the only one opposing it has a rating of 1400+ (unrated).

As far as the frequency, there have only been two so far (two-year gap), and another one is coming soon.

I think it's pretty early to judge Div. 4 as a whole, as it may change after a few more rounds.

However, I agree with some of the comments that it is perhaps a bit too easy (first few questions), even for newbies that sometimes fail to solve 1-2 problems in Div. 3 (myself).

I think most greens would be able to solve all the current Div. 4 problems, which is strange as often where there is a cut-off, say expert in Div. 3, not all 1600 and below solve everything.

I will end this by saying that I trust and appreciate the efforts of Mike and the problem setters for Div. 4 as I personally enjoy the problems from C onwards as they have the right amount of difficulty for me as it currently stands.

4 days ago, # |

Thanks for downvoting my comment. Feel free to downvote more and more. It will only improve my awareness and get me stronger.

4 days ago, # |

Why do you mind?

I would recommend those rounds to all the beginners. If you just learned Python or C++, it's a great practice and it exposes you to algorithmic thinking. An average programmer doesn't even know gcd or time complexity. If you want to show them CP, such div4 rounds are a great start.

  • 4 days ago, # ^ |

    But isn't that exactly the point of div 3 rounds too?

  • 3 days ago, # ^ |

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4 days ago, # |

I think that Div4 should be prepared from recycled problems in the problem set, for people with rating below 1200. In addition, to make cheating less rewarding, you won't be able to surpass 1300 after a Div4 round. Div4 rounds will be trivial to make and therefore won't interfere with the more important Div1 and combined rounds.

3 days ago, # |

I agree with you on this. I feel that div 4 is too easy, and it doesn't give beginners a lot of improvement in their problem solving skills. I think the reason why people like div 4 is because it is for gaining some meaningless points, which I have learned doesn't help at all. Improvement is way more important than some meaningless rating, and eventually rating will go up through practice and contests. Div 3 is way more suitable for improvement at its difficulty.

3 days ago, # |

more and more people register new accounts for the purpose of narcissism, and pass all problem in little time.

I think it is not good for newbie.

  • 3 days ago, # ^ |

    Yes, and there are also some people teamwork

    • 3 days ago, # ^ |

      Ironically, the latest Div.4's rank 1 named teaming_is_unfair.

      And he passed C at 5:37 and H at 5:58.

3 days ago, # |

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  • 3 days ago, # ^ |

    I want to say, div4's rating is UNREAL

    • 3 days ago, # ^ |

      The comment is hidden because of too negative feedback, click here to view it

      • 3 days ago, # ^ |

        But the Div4 in 2020 is suitable, I think current div4 is like to become easier and easier

        • 3 days ago, # ^ |

          The comment is hidden because of too negative feedback, click here to view it

        • 3 days ago, # ^ |

          Well, I have browsed through all your comments and what I see is that you are just randomly criticizing users who are against you. Div.4 is a really good practice just like Errichto said. Why do you reply all the comments like you are a trou? you are indeed a trou.

3 days ago, # |

← Rev. 2 →  

+9

I agree. Instead, they should increase the frequency of div3.

3 days ago, # |

Imagine div.4 as more like a drilling exercise rather than something for learning new things. greys and greens are most likely very new to competitive programming and still needs more easier problems to get used to typing code and learning patterns of easy problems. Div.3 could do as well but problems rated >1400 would already be too hard for newbies

  • 3 days ago, # ^ |

    I completely agree with you.

3 days ago, # |

Codeforces became noobforces

3 days ago, # |

BTW why doesn't you participate in Div1 with your MatrixCascade_qwq account ? (I could easily identify it from the code you submitted)

It is too silly for a Redcoder who don't participate in Div1 to complain about the increase in Div4.

3 days ago, # |

Why not?

27 hours ago, # |

I think it is wise not to trust the upvotes/downvotes results here, as the information is being manipulated by his probably 50+ sub-accounts.

In fact, the comment where I pointed out the existence of his other account had 30+ upvotes yesterday at most, but now it is -7 due to his criminal activity. The remaining 3 comments had a few upvotes yesterday, but are now close to -50. I also received troublesome DMs.

Wise people will be easily convinced that this situation was caused solely by him. It is easy to see how he overreacted to being told the truth.

I'm tired of this and I'm going to have a good time solving problems. Good bye!

  • 100 minutes ago, # ^ |

    sorry, why do you think a normal people have 50 alts?

    • 32 minutes ago, # ^ |

      because your blog get +129 even though it is super stupid

      • 1 minute ago, # ^ |

        I think ur comments are stupid.

        and I didn'n have enough time to use 50 alts to upvote

  • 80 minutes ago, # ^ |

    Getting so many upvotes in a short time is more difficult than getting so many downvotes in a day XD

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