Honda Hits 3D Printing Sites With Takedown Orders Over Honda-Compatible Parts
source link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/22/04/17/2256236/honda-hits-3d-printing-sites-with-takedown-orders-over-honda-compatible-parts
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A writer for The Drive reports that "Recently, I noticed a part that I made for my Honda Accord was removed from Printables, the newly rebranded 3D printing repository offered by Prusa. "There seemed to be no rhyme or reason for it, but I didn't think anything else about it...until reports of a mass deletion started popping up on Reddit."
All models referencing the word "Honda" posted prior to March 30, 2022, were seemingly removed from Printables without warning. These included speaker brackets, key housings, hood latches, shifter bushings, washer fluid caps, roof latch handles, and my trunk lid handle — a part not offered on 10th generation Accords sold in the U.S. at all. In fact, many of the removed parts had no Honda branding but were just compatible with Honda vehicles. As it turns out, Prusa says it was issued a takedown notice from Honda and removed all 3D models that referenced the brand. "I can confirm to you that we have received a letter from a lawyer representing Honda, informing us that we were required to remove any model which used 'Honda' in the listing, the model itself, or one of several trademarks/logos also associated with Honda," a Prusa spokesperson told The Drive in an email. "This will also be related to the naming of the files it self (sic), as for Honda this would be considered as a violation of their trademark/patents." A Prusa employee responded to a post on the company's forums, noting that Honda sent a "huge legal document" that covered every model that the company wished to have deleted. The document reportedly included items that did not have Honda logos, but also specific items with certain shapes and dimensions — like a washer fluid reservoir cap, for example. A response from another employee was posted suggesting other sites that host 3D models were also sent a similar takedown notice.
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Doesn't this sound like the way the music industry reacted to Napster and the internet back in the 1990s?
Instead of looking at this as a challenge to their revenues, why not embrace it and license 3d-printer files for some of the low-criticality plastic parts that would otherwise require a visit to the dealership?
If Honda (and other automakers) had their heads screwed on properly they'd see 3D printing as a new revenue source and a way to make their products more desirable to the marketplace.
I am pretty sure this will happen (just as the music industry got around to embracing the internet and now make most of their profits from it) but it'll take a generation of change before we see it:-(
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They make more money by you:
A: Coming into the dealership.
B: Selling the part to you at a markup.
Not to mention, the only place you can really get the parts is through a dealer network. Honda probably has some licensing or whatever fees with the dealerships that constrict the flow of parts to them specifically, and the dealers would not want to pay such a fee for parts you could get elsewhere. Exclusivities would be violated. Ergo, Honda did what they could to enforce their exclusivity agreements.
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Weigh that against the bad publicity they get by doing stuff like this. I can't imagine more than a tiny percent of people are actually 3D printing their own Honda parts. My guess is that all it takes is a couple of people to get annoyed with Honda and decide they won't buy their next car from them to completely offset any potential financial losses.
This sort of thing just seems somewhat short-sighted.
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I just crossed Honda off of my ethical manufacturers list. Never would have bought one of their cars anyway, but now their dirt bikes, generators, outboards and garden equipment are on my do not buy list as well.
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Looks like my new outboard motor plans are changing.
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> They make more money by you:
But why would I buy a Honda that doesn't have 3D printed parts when I can buy a Toyota that does?
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Not only won't they stop it, they'll drive them to pirate sites.
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This is the way Marvel/DC and Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm send takedowns to eBay. It's actually a violation of eBay policy to reference anything as "(brand name)-compatible" in the title. You either are selling the authentic item, in which you can use the brand name, or you are selling an aftermarket item which should be called "OEM", and not reference the brand anywhere except in a "fits" list in the description.
And if Honda, or any other Japanese car manufacturer were genuinely interested in keeping counterfeits from being produced on 3D printing sites, they would instead make the items available on their own site under a "DIY repair" list.
Keep in mind that it's a hot piracy market for car service manuals (both dealer manuals, and aftermarket manuals) as well, and vehicle manufacturers often send take downs to eBay (and presumably Amazon) because of piracy of their manuals, so these 3D models for 3D printers seems like more of the same.
One way that 3D printers can avoid the infringement entirely is to strip any branding off the part. This is pretty much how "OEM" (aka counterfeit) stuff remains on eBay and Amazon. It's not an infringement to simply go "fits (product)" in the description.
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Yeah, but this is the issue. It's not a trademark violation to say "I have a radio knob that fits a 1999 Honda Accord". Yes, "Honda" and "Accord" are trademarks, but that's *NOT* what trademark law covers. I cannot build a car and say "This car is a Honda Accord". I can sell accessories for Honda Accords and mention that the accessories work with Honda Accords. I cannot brand my accessories as "Honda", but I can absolutely say that they work with Honda Accords.
Imagine if Microsoft went after all the software sellers that sell Windows software and say "You can't actually say this works with Windows". It makes no sense.
I really wish the EFF would get involved here. This idea needs to be curb-stomped.
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Upvote this!
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If you are searching for guitar parts (switches, knobs, pick guards, replacements necks, etc.) you will commonly see them sold as fitting "T-style" or "S-style" guitars, instead of fitting Stratocasters and Telecasters. One vendor told me it is specifically to avoid potential lawsuits.
The scope of this problem would seem to extended beyond the EFF's realm. To really "curb-stomp" this kind of thing might need a broader movement towards IP reform.
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By the same token, people can re-upload their non-logo'd designs as e.g. "Type H" compatible.
It seems to me like there might be a reasonable distinction between products with "Honda" in their name, and having "compatible with Honda" in the body copy, although I'm sure Honda drew no such distinction. Still, given trademark law, that's where I'd personally draw it. Yes, I know no one asked. I know people put stuff in the name because of crap search tools on sites.
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an OEM what
either you enjoy going through 9000 listings for "Hood latch." one by one or you're about to open your mouth and respond with something that they still consider infringing because discovery is still easily accessible
not because "the law says X"; because it's easily accessible
their goal when preventing the use of identifiers is to prevent identification, not because the law says X
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OEM means original equipment manufacturer. OEM Honda parts are made by Honda (or their vendors). It's the opposite of aftermarket.
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OEM also means 'made by the same people who supply the auto manufacturer'. For instance, if the manufacturer uses a certain model of Denso alternator, then that Denso alternator would be the OEM part.
Indeed, this is the usual meaning of 'OEM'.
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THIS is the kind of garbage that tends to make one not want to buy from asshat corporations that pull this crap. I guess they just want to be sure that you are forced to buy their overpriced replacement parts. 3D printing parts makes a tremendous amount of COMMON SENSE. Guess Honda is lacking in this sense.
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What are your thoughts on John Deere tractors?
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There is a big difference between what Honda has apparently done here vs what the music companies did with Napster etc.
It's perfectly legal to sell a gas cap for Honda vehicles.
Or a gas cap compatible with the Honda Accord.
What Honda seems to have done is *illegal* restraint of trade.On the other hand, Napster was totally illegal. It's *not* legal to publish copies of Justin Bieber songs. The record companies had the law in their side. Honda here is on the wrong side of the law. That's different.
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I'm pretty sure no Justin Bieber song ever traversed the Napster network.
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Oh, I don't know - people did get a kick out of hampsterdance back then.
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The hamsterdance theme song is a sped up version of "Oo-de-lally" sung by Roger Miller from Disney's animated Robin Hood movie.
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Correction to the above--same movie, same artist, but the actual song name is "Whistle Stop." [fandom.com]
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The petrol tank cap is probably a bad example. There are probably design standards that need to be met for it to be safe.
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No, it sounds completely different.
The music industry said:
You can't have this.What Honda seems to be saying is:
You can print all the aftermarket 3D parts you want, but you can't label them as "Honda" parts.It's a trademark issue. Your part description can still say, "This fits a Honda Civic". Just like when you go to the car parts store.
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You obviously didn't read the article, but did you at least read the summary?
The document reportedly included items that did not have Honda logos, but also specific items with certain shapes and dimensions — like a washer fluid reservoir cap, for example.
How is there a "trademark issue" with a washer fluid reservoir cap with no Honda markings? Quit carrying water for the abusive multinational corporation.
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