Tell HN: Turned 44 today and I'm lost

My spidey sense went up when you mentioned what "you told your therapist", full stop. I was at least expecting "what my therapist responded" or "what my therapist told me that didn't work". That really (spidey sense, no evidence really) implies that your therapist is having low impact.

I've had half a dozen therapists in my life. What I realized is there's a huge difference between most therapists and good ones. With a typical therapist, not much happens, you phone it in and they don't notice or call you on it. A good therapist somehow has a way of listening and then catching you properly off guard at least once or twice a session. They can stare into your soul and see through your bullshit, even when you don't notice the bullshit you're saying. If you don't feel that incisiveness, perhaps it's time to start shopping for a new therapist.

Therapy really is a 100x profession.

I know a few people exactly like you, that like to boost about how well off they are and that are depressed and sad, but they treat life as it is a game of competition, this is why they usually start by displaying how "they've won", but in reality they were the only ones that were silly enough to only think about work.

What do you like to do outside of work, that isn't some sort of addiction, such as gaming, gambling and doesn't give some kind of thrill that you also get in business and while making money? Try to spend more time doing those things.

Also to say those things to your wife and come here and say is load, makes me believe you don't respect her at all. What does your therapist say about this?

You've decided to waste the best years of your life working a lot and making money, and now you fail to appreciate the things you've conquered etc. At your age, there is still a lot of things you can do. Now there is still a lot of golden days, but it will never be like you were 20, for sure.

Such as, if you try to skate, every fall will hurt much more than when you were young and take longer to recover. Same is for playing an instrument, will take much longer to learn. We are like fruits, eventually we will get rotten.

Also the way you talk about depression seems like you want to hide behind it. Honestly depressed people can't get shit done as you do, I live with somebody with it and they can't wake up, have a business or deal with commitments as you've done, to me it seems you are mostly sad because you want to always be on a peak, winning, sort of like a cocaine addict, hence my earlier comment about addiction.

A therapist can help with that, invest on more sessions and if the current one isn't working, find a new one.

This isn't true, depression has a pretty wide spectrum, and some depressed people are fairly high functioning. There are vast differences in severity, and it also surfaces differently in different people.

A lot of people find passion + work align. It's ok not to waste your time watching TV, sports, playing games, art, and all that stuff people do to distract them from life. It is ok for your hobby to be work.

There are just enough people who aren't driven to work, that it bothers them. I can work 10 hours every day, and enjoy working that way on the weekends. Life is boring - if you're in charge of work, it can be fulfilling.

just because you feel work is the only thing that gives you purpose doesn't mean it's the only thing. Having material goods and producing material goods for others isn't the only purpose in life and a majority of people will not find true happiness out of this.

It doesn't mean that laziness is the way to go, but viewing having hobby's that don't produce something as a bad thing is an awful outlook on life and just makes you a slave to others.

There's also like 5 classes of antidepressant drugs, and several more that don't fall into a specific class. Each class has several options. If the first one doesn't work for you, that doesn't mean the next wont. The biological causes of depression aren't well understood and it's trial and error to find one that works for you. I would encourage people who are depressed to talk with their doctor, and find a medication that works for them. And don't be afraid to tell your doctor one isn't working, they won't be surprised.

Depression isn't one size fits all, and the meds for it aren't either.

FWIW I've long believed that many people should progress into a mentoring role at some point in their life. I've had that role several times in several different niches, and I love it, and it's extremely fulfilling. You could easily spend 20 years helping to raise and influence future generations.

If you aren't finding a suitable mentoring opportunity at your current role, I'd recommend looking at volunteer organizations. It can take a while to find a good fit, so don't give up if the first one doesn't work out for whatever reason. But, in general, I've found volunteer organizations to be full of passionate, youthful (if not young) people who are really energizing to be around. I ended up volunteering a lot with search and rescue because it fit well with my other interests, but there are myriad volunteer organizations looking for good people from all kinds of backgrounds.

And why do you think you have hit your zenith? Because you will not be able to redo the success that you have had and climb another ladder? But who have said that you should?

Beware, NO wonder pill or wonder drug will suddenly make your life easier, because (I suppose!) the issue lies with the purpose of life, not with some other biological reason. What is the purpose then? Well, there were a lot of smart people trying to think about this topic, you can start by studying them.

What the meds do is make it easier to employ those techniques.

So while there is no wonder pill that will solve your issues, in certain cases if used properly they will definitely help.

I say this so that OP isn't discouraged from taking drugs because of comments of this variety that say true happiness comes from within - while it does, there are certainly things (like therapy and medication) that can at least put you on the right path. Like everything else, there can be a lot of trial and error to find the right ones.

Depression can get in the way of finding joy in things, even things you once found joy in. This on top of other symptoms that can contribute to OPs feeling of dread so to speak, such as a lack of energy.

In therapy, you learn techniques to learn to manage this, and meds can help with this. They can have a number of different effects, and some can definitely have a positive effect.

Successfully managing symptoms can free up mind space to actually take action to alleviate the issue, such as your proposal to take inventory of what's actually important and carefully reanalyze and reassess how you're measuring success in life.

I'll end this by making sure it's understood that I'm not saying you can find a magic potion that will cure all your woes. Rather, medication is one weapon in the arsenal that can sometimes work successfully.

Anyway, this is all complicated and evaluated on a case by case basis, so I'm glad OP is actually in therapy.

I can't possibly explain it all in one post. but, to give you a hint: everything we strive for in the outside world is all for naught. At the end of the day, what matters is your internal state of mind, how you process inputs. we keep trying to rearrange the outside world, as if the outside world was a representation of our minds.

Getting fit really helps, especially if you've never been athletic. I love cycling and have always done a lot of it, but COVID and WFH changed the nature of it. Instead of a "baseline" of bike commutes and extra sporty rides on top of that, it was all sporty rides. And while Strava reminds me that elite athletes can climb a hill over twice as fast as I can, and naturally athletic people in my age group are still 5-10% faster, it's still fun to try to beat my segment time up that hill and then it has knock-on benefits like better sleep, and even motivation to shed a few pounds because that too will help the hill climb time.

Markus

Uhh, I wouldn't recommend any of those substances that casually, especially if someone's not mentally at a good state. ESPECIALLY ecstasy - it can easily be neurotoxic if you don't know what you're doing, and leave you with permanent brain damage or death.

Also quick addendum - I'm not at all saying that these substances can't be amazing and helpful in the right situation... That last part is key. If you are well aware of the various risks (hyperthermia leading to death, serotonin syndrome due to interactions with SSRIs/MAOIs, "Suicide Tuesdays") etc then you may be better read and aware, but if these terms are foreign then please don't try such "hard" substances (MDMA is a stimulant after all).

Oh, and all this is not accounting for the risk of getting car/fentanyl cut in your tablet.

It sounds like you're on a good path though, Stay strong bro.

I'm curious: why not?

Nice to hear you were able to get over it -or at least take the steps to eventually do. Inspiring honestly, keep at it.

There are many midcareer programs operated by business schools, as well as specialized terminal degrees in technical and creative fields. I took such a route at age 40 ... going back to school full-time at that age was a shock to many people I knew, but it was the right thing for me. It really opened up a range of new possibilities, and introduced me to people from all over the world and from industries I would otherwise have never encountered.

First thing to recommend if you haven't already is to become a student of psychology. YouTube is pretty helpful with this. Some insight into what your brain firmware is up to and why you feel one way or another can be useful. Probably drop the therapist since this was their job and they appear to have failed.

It may be that your self worth has been bound up in ascending a ramp of mastery. This works well until around your age which is the point where you've pretty much learned everything. The ramp flattened out and now your self-worth is abating as a result. If that's the case, adding new mastery challenges "just because" can help. Learn how to weld. Buy a bulldozer. Figure out Representation Theory. Doesn't matter what it is, only needs to be something your brain recognizes as difficult and it doesn't have to be work-related.

This also may simply pass with time. Once you're 10 years past the point of learning and understanding and doing everything, it's less of a big deal. In other words there isn't the continuous decline you perceive coming. More like a flat plateau.

I say this because I am myself sometimes feeling lost even though I haven't accomplished as much as you and one thing that puts a smile on my face is when I help someone else, someone who is less privileged than me. I am now trying to find ways to really help others directly (not just donating etc but doing actual work).

My guess (armchair psychology and know nothing about you) is that someone made your inner child feel sad and "not good enough". If you can find that kid in you and feel/sooth the pain it will free you from trying so hard to reach an elusive goal. Then you can figure out what you actually want and persue that.

No, I'm not projecting I've seen this before. My own inner pain and outward manifestation was different ;-)

Sounds like you need to take some serious time to consider who you are. Not the person who accomplished these things in life, but the reason you were given a body and put on this planet to do something.

I had a similar moment after I read "Man's search for meaning" by Frankl. That led me down a 5 year journey to better understand what life is all about. I explored many philosophies, practices, and texts to get closer to an answer. I found my "Ikigai" along the way as well through writing.

Nobody knows what they're doing in life, but I do believe I have a much better understanding of what I'm doing in life because I put the time in to better figure out who I am.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai

I never got the appeal of open-world sandbox type games either.

If I had what you had, I would just: 1) raise my kid 2) build stuff 3) write fiction 4) consume without guilt (media, restaurants, hobbies and gadgets, etc)

I also agree that lifting weights is a very good idea, but don't stop seeing your therapist.

> Was the first person in the history of my university who was both a fulltime student and full time employee.

Okay? Why is that something to brag about. Like when you deconstruct that, is it really something to brag about? Its fine that you wound up having the capacity to excel in that situation, and have external validation that you did, but is the environment that pushed you into that really useful... for you? Congratulations on being able to provide for yourself and others. What are you actually interested in? What would be a better use of that bandwidth if a degree and professional attainment wasn't your goal?

> I’m really only working for the health insurance.

Come on. So half to 100% of the premium is paid by your employer. Okay. Is that really making a difference? You can likely keep the exact same plan without that employer and your investments should be able to cover that as well, if your past successes were really worth it (literally in this case) as described above, deep down you knew that right?

> But I've never been more unhappy and lost.

Back to my original point. Are these really the highlights of your life? That seems to be the primary point. You won the career-necessity game. You beat the wage-slave level.

Do you have other interests? Are you interested in having other interests? Sounds like you need serotonin and dopamine kickstarts.

> I told my therapist that I feel like I've hit my mid-life crisis, though not your typical one as I'm not going out and buying a muscle car to cruise high schools.

Not like other guys(tm). You're not special and your prior professional accomplishments have delayed you from accepting this earlier in life. Maybe you do need to buy the muscle car and see what you were missing. You might that you like it.

That being said, welcome to mid life where you realize nothing matters and the points are meaningless. Have to figure the meaning out for yourself. There's no way around it. Best of luck.

1) Mastery: I need some skill that I feel like I can work at and improve; ideally at a level just at the edge of my competence to continually stretch myself

2) Autonomy: I need to feel like I have the ability to direct my efforts to a certain degree. With your financial resources, I would think you have this one covered.

3) Purpose: The work needs to provide meaning and align with my personal values.

Note that these don't need to be defined by a vocation. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with using a vocation to fund whatever activity/activities meet the above. Ironically, that helps give even a dead-end job some purpose.

I'm still somewhat aware that I'm having a mid life crisis but it's more of a feeling of wanting to enjoy my kid being a kid before he outgrows me and nothing else really matters. I don't chase money or work accomplishments, never really have, but they do pull at me and now I push back a lot more. So a massive shift of prioritization is in place where I prioritize my social calendar (or kids) over my work calendar at all cost. I really have no relationship with my dad (by choice, but with reasons) so I now often think that is my primary objective to make sure my son wants to keep me in his life as an adult. So in a large part I'm just trying to not repeat the mistakes my dad made with me... but I also really enjoy my kid and want to spend time with him, so it helps.

Yes, it's very likely that you have hit your local maxima. You've been preparing for this day and the day came. It maybe worth noting to oneself that it did not turn out the way you predicted and perhaps identify, if possible, causes that your prediction was so off. Considering that you subconsciously believed that your life will be short, perhaps there were things you did not like in your life that you have compromised upon or negative feelings suppressed that contribute to feeling unhappy?

If you can find what you really enjoy doing and turn that into an investment into the planet and its population then you get to arrive at your death bed really believing you did something valuable with your life.

As they say, few people wish to have earned more money or spent more time at work, they wish they invested in people, in communities, into the less fortunate etc.

Good luck. I'm two years older than you and still feeling like some of my best is yet to come!

What's wrong with being done at 40? Maybe move into some low paying job where you can coast and focus on non-work stuff. Maybe buy that muscle car and go to AutoX and track days (basically find a hobby with a community).

> it's just a slow decline from here on out

The moment you're born is the moment you start dying. From the greatest king to the lowest begger, we all just fart around doing meaningless human things until we punch the final clock. So what's the point? Why go on? Why do anything?

You have to give yourself a reason to live. It doesn't have to be an accomplishment or a goal. It can just be that you like flowers. Seeing flowers, smelling flowers, touching them, maybe growing them, learning more about them. You can live just because occasionally you get to enjoy flowers. When you're not doing that, you can find another thing to enjoy. One thing, then another, then another. Each for just a moment at a time. Life's a stroll down a trail of moments. You pick one up, enjoy it, put it down, and continue the stroll. And the cool thing is, you decide where the trail leads, how fast you go, how many moments there are. You can go at a snail's pace or a flat-out run.

Personally, I enjoy the slow pace now. Just sitting and watching a bird outside my window is pretty fucking magical. If I want to see more birds? Bird feeder! Or I can move somewhere with more birds. Or go take a nature walk. It's not immediate, and I can't force the birds to appear. But when it happens... Until the next time the birds come out, I do the next thing that brings me joy. Just stringing moments together. No point. No final destination. Just taking a stroll, picking up happy moments along the way.

You need to take time off (just pay for health insurance) and concentrate on health and sport, sleep, hobbies and other not-work-related projects that were lucking due to demand of work. You will fill better very quickly, and maybe will have desire to work again in two-three years. You will know when it comes - you will be excited about some new project. For now concentrate on essentials ^^^.

(I’m at the end of my burnout cycle, so it gets way better eventually)

Ultimately though, I had to find other things and live a more balanced life. In my case, my health scare was such that fitness and nutrition became passions. I hope you can find a passion that works for you. It's okay to discover new things, rekindle old hobbies and do things that don't make sense from the outside.

Good luck friend and I'm sorry you're going through this. I can completely relate, it sucks and there is quite literally nothing I can say. :(

Ultimately at some point do you live for yourself or do you live for someone/something else?

King Solomon was the richest wisest man alive and yet in Ecclesiastes he seems to despair and says everything is meaningless.

Seriously. There's a theory about learning and creating addictive games created by Jean Piaget [long story goes here]. Basically, if you don't feel the need for a change, the gut feeling that the universe is out of balance, you won't change.

It's perfectly fine to accomplish a lot and feel at ease. Being lost, however, means that there is somewhere you want to be but can't get there. Work on where that is, then you'll know more about why you're lost.

Apologies for sounding like Yoda. At some point, most all of us are happy, accomplish meaningful things, maybe take a victory lap. Yay. Contentment is the secret to happiness. You can have a happy life or a meaningful one. They're not the same thing.

I'd like to think I'd take inspiration from Nick Stellino, a former Wall Street guy that made a ton of money and then decided to start over as a chef:

"he had built a successful career as a stockbroker. Nick’s Wall Street career was lucrative, but he realized something was missing. ... He decided to pursue a culinary career. ... With no formal experience, Nick was told he couldn’t work as a chef. Not to be denied a job in the industry, he initially took a job as a dishwasher. He went on to apprentice with some of the best chefs in America. While working in the restaurant business, he realized that he wanted to share his enthusiasm for cooking with others and that a television cooking show would be the best way to do that." [1]

I'm sure there's some embellishing here, but the point stands that you have unlimited options now to pursue what give you joy and purpose. Want to be a watchmaker working on antique Rolex timepieces? Starting an all organic bespoke wedding cake business? Running for City Comptroller in the next election?

[1] https://www.nickstellino.com/about-nick/

For a non sufferer of depression it makes a lot of sense to be happy that they reached a level where they can do whatever they want but with depression that desire ceases to exist.

Your physical survival is taken care of, now there is only conscious evolution.

Your mind (thoughts/feelings/emotions) is going to do what it has always done - run rampant. Now with the emptiness you're feeling, you'll want to pay even attention to them. Don't.

You're looking for a feeling of joy just for being alive. It's not found in the physical body or your mind. It's much deeper. The journey starts with stillness.

I suggest the following:

- some type of meditation (no apps), anything involving stillness

- being with the earth (gardening, walking)

- skip all media (at least not consuming it in the desire to find answers)

Where you are now is harder than the past 44 years.

You have to consciously (not compulsively like up till now) move forward.

Of course, there's always the question of "which religion" since obviously all religions in aggregate have contradictory teachings when compared to each other. And if you absolutely can't bring yourself to believe in something like God without hard empirical evidence, maybe religion isn't for you. But in my opinion almost any religion is better than none if only for the uplifting camaraderie alone, so if you have even the tiniest desire to believe in something greater you could just pick one you think looks good and try it out for a bit and see if it has any positive outcomes in your life. And if your initial choice turned out to be good but sub-optimal (which it most likely will if you picked at random), as your faith grows you can trust that you'll be guided to switch to the best one for you over time (if you so desire).

The only way I keep going is to keep an intellectual and creative pursuit at all times. Currently I'm trying to build a deep understanding of public healthcare system since it's relevant to my life experience, and also learning a new instrument. That seems to get my mind on more important things than how I feel.

Otherwise I just try to accept that this is how I am. Some people are annoyingly bubbly, others grumpy. I'm melancholy.

I've started pouring myself into charity work and mentoring younger executives, engineers, and data scientists. It's different, but I love it. It's really fulfilling.

A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy, by William B. Irvine

The subtle art of not giving a f*ck, by Mark Manson (the book is a lot more interesting than the title suggests)

His advice is essentially everyone needs: 1. Good food 2. Exercise 3. Friends 4. Something to look forward to (working towards some goal)

How are you doing in these 4 areas? Tackling the first 3 gives you good energy and general vibe. For #4 there is no end to what can be achieved, so always possible to select a goal. Just need to find something that excites you.

Weightlift. Not bodybuilding, but heavy weights. Grinding through what seems like impossible amounts is invigorating, both physically and mentally.

Do it. I just did psilocybin for the first time last autumn. It was life changing. Im 37. I didn't learn anything new, but I felt really different and that was the real truth. That I really could just feel different and still be me. I guess it was a perspective on my life that I knew but hadn't felt.

I ask because there is a lot more to life than working and it sounds like there might be a few work related things going on:

1) You don't need to work anymore for money

2) You've wildly succeeded in your career and may never top those experiences

3) Given your work success, I wonder if maybe you're a workaholic or that work is too large a part of your life

Any of those ring a bell?

[0] One example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rIL5vHoF34

Exercise, make sure your needs (quality time, intellectual engagement, emotional connections, nutritional, family quality) are being addressed. If you’re burnt out, take time for you. As codegeek wrote, consider volunteering. Making a meaningful difference, even small ways, to others is way more important than making bank once you’re adequately set.

If you can live a reasonable quality life without employment for the rest of your days, you’ve hit the lottery. Be totally psyched, and use your freedom. Wish I was in your shoes.

If you are covered financially, you can do a long trip somewhere to get a change of scenery and have some self-reflection

In November I started woodworking and it has been a great outlet. Reasons why I enjoy woodworking:

- Somewhere to go/something to do. The saying `the devil will find work for idle hands to do` was real with me and the woodworking gave me purpose.

- Something to learn. Don't let the YouTube videos fool you. Learning woodworking (or anything I would assume) take time and is hard. It will feel hard. But that's okay. Enjoy the process

- I get to make things for people that brings me a lot of joy. A few weeks ago I was humbled with the task of creating an urn for my uncle. It was really special to give that to my cousin.

In regards to mental health... I have dealt with moderate to sever depression most my life as well. I tried therapy, running, seven different meds with varying dosages of some and nothing seemed to work. The only thing that worked for me were ketamine treatments. I have not tried TMS so I don't know how they compare, but the ketamine was like a switch was flipped the first day. Life changing for me when I started almost two years ago now, even though effects have faded over time. It is expensive and I encourage you find someone with a care background and not a generic clinic, but it could be a good option for some people.

My email is in my profile if you have any other questions.

I also know this isn't popular here but spiritual fitness is key as well.

Medical intervention can be helpful short-term, but long-term you want to look at what satisfies you. Fast forward yourself to 55, and think to your self "Wow, I'm really impressed with myself that I did $x." And then get to doing $x.

I'm in my early 40s, and when I start to feel that way, I remind myself that Richard Hipp, lead developer of SQLite, didn't start to do what is indisputably his best work until he started developing SQLite 3 in his 40s. So your best work might still be ahead of you.

Pick 1 or 2 and double down. Choose what you want to become and give yourself a goal rather than inheriting one.

For a chuckle about the inevitable decline as we age, see this quote from Trainspotting:

https://www.quotes.net/mquote/1200371

That's what I would do in your boat.

Ping me at [email protected] if you’d like to chat more. I’ve assisted others in the same situation after sorting it out for myself.

It may seem silly, but at least for me, tilling a new garden, building a small physical thing, doing some task that's physically taxing and I can see through has been great while waiting for the end of my larger difficulty. It won't solve all your problems, as implied above, but it could be a good stop gap while you're looking for solutions. Your therapist (or a new one if this one doesn't work out) could provide long-term solutions I'd hope.

You're not alone, friend. You will get there -- I've done it a number of times (though in my case, without the money part figured out; well done in that regard!).

It is especially not a solution to some kind of deep-seated existential/self-worth issues that OP seems to have. I also get the impression that he is either divorced or not on great terms with his spouse since he refers to her as "The Wife." If so, that would be a terrible environment to deliberately raise a child in. He's also 44 which is not too old to have children, but about a decade or two past the norm.

Second, I think that this search for meaning is not unique to you, nor to modern people. We've been doing this for millennia. Religion, philosophy, stoicism, psychology, they all try to answer the question: how do I live a good life?

I don't know you, but I'll give you the answer that I'd give a friend who came to me with this question.

* Find a therapist who works for you. This may involve trying many different ones. If you try 10 and none work, maybe therapy isn't for you, but having someone who is paid to listen to you can be very helpful. Since you know you have depression, find someone to help you with that (which may involve trialing different medications). This is foundational and none of my other advice will be helpful if you don't do this. This post from a leading VC may prove helpful: https://feld.com/archives/2015/04/bringing-depression-shadow...

* Find something bigger than yourself and your achievements to work for. Sibling comments suggest volunteering, I'd be more specific. What are you interested in? Coding?: volunteer at a school or bootcamp and teach folks to code. History?: volunteer at a museum. The outdoors? volunteer at a park. Commit to the volunteering for at least 6 months and treat it like a job because it will be providing what a job might have done in the past: a firm sense of purpose.

* Find some non-work groups to hang out in. This could be sports clubs, civic groups (Odd Fellows, Elks, Rotary Club, etc), book clubs, etc etc. This regular, non work focused socializing will help give your life some richness. I just saw this video and one thing that stood out to me was how relationships with others can give our lives meaning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6WZuLKOa6k

Other people can give you their advice, but you know yourself best.

Specifically, when people use capital letters and an indefinite article to refer to "The Wife" it is also usually time to get a divorce.

Ideally one should be exercise. Cardio, lifting, whatever.

Rest and vest. Enjoy your time with your family.

That's all I have. Hope it is enough!

If the problem is that you feel things are gonna be a slow decline from here, then fight it. Make that your new goal, even if you know it to be a losing battle. It will focus your mind on demonstrable milestones like hitting new deadlift personal best.

Even if you do something else, at the very least recognize that you've gotten to the point where you don't need to focus on the "work" and "money" part of life; as such treat this as an opportunity to focus on something new. After all, we only have a limited time on this earth to experience the things you want to do. This crisis is your mind's way of saying "I haven't done something I wished I had done." It isn't bad, it's just cognitive dissonance. Find the root of that dissonance and do that which would resolve the problems keeping you from finding fulfillment. This process will be emotionally painful but also cathartic.

Best of luck; know that every man has it within them to pull through this and come out the other end happy and fulfilled. So long as you are willing to question everything about why you are the way you currently are, you will eventually seek out the truths you need to proceed.

You have no understanding of their wider life and concerns, and people asking for big life change help can be surprisingly susceptible to advice.

I’m not trying to be snarky, I’ve seen way more advices on getting therapy rather than start lifting weight. I don’t have an opinion one way or another, but when I read the GP advice, I thought it was the one being unusual rather than common

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/a-scathing-review-of-you... was a joke until I read this comment.

By all means give weights (or running, cycling, whatever) a go, but stay with the therapy.

Better to listen to professionals rather than some rando on the web.

NEVER, EVER, suggest dropping therapy to someone with depression.

I still don't know what to do but I sent questions here and on reddit. What I figured out is that I need to find a different set of values that grow, not decline when I grow older, pass 40. I have yet to find anything that fits but hopefully you can find something soon.

Good luck!

But I'm mostly worried about the mental/spiritual part.

Myself personally and I imagine a lot of other people out there are in the same boat, minus the money to be able to stop and reflect.

Make some changes. Maybe some will be the wrong ones, fine, keep doing it.

Set a timer for 30-60 minutes and begin to write down every conceivable thing you might want to do, anything that seems cool, honorable, worthwhile, interesting, amazing, serene, invigorating, beautiful, or otherwise just iconic/archetypal of your interpretation of what a great life might include/entail. The only rules are you must not limit yourself by thinking it cannot be accomplished, is out of reach, or other "pragmatic" style self limitations, and you must not list things you think you ought/should do where those things are coming from a place that doesn't seem truly genuine to who you are -- they are externally informed. Try to shoot for 100 things.

Ok, got your list?

Now you're going to refactor it into categories. Categorize it into any pattern set you observe. I wont mention any here as it will bias your own groupings. But I really do believe patterns _will_ emerge if you look at it long enough. Try to distill themes of values and what is important to you, excites you, has meaning/purpose to you.

After many days you may want to start to think and begin to pursue these things either concretely (a specific item on your list) or thematically (find ways to incorporate meaning to what you're already doing). Books about habits[2], goals can help with bringing them into fruition. This exercise can be used to help you map out things that matter, reflect on things you have done that you previously said would matter (gratitude), and later on redone to help evolve as you grow.

If I find that you're stalling/procrastinating in overwhelm or negativity I often apply my "Next pizza" rule (I love pizza). I think about what might represent the next pizza in my life (sometimes literally, usually figuratively) and focus on getting there. Focus on doing the best monday through friday on the things that matter I can so I can get to that next pizza (reward).

[1]: Perhaps the fountain, interstellar, or pan's labyrinth.

[2]: such as atomic habits or tiny habits

[3]: this exercise is similar to, but smaller than, the future authoring program https://www.selfauthoring.com/future-authoring

I say "hard work" in quotes because, as he puts it, he never had to make any decisions. He just showed up, did the work, went home. Yes, it was physically demanding, but you have to be pretty stupid to get it wrong (and yet, somehow, some of his coworkers did, but I digress).

He's going through a depression right now, and it's 100% not knowing what to do with himself. He doesn't have anyone to tell him what to do. He's 60 years old this year and has not lacked someone giving him orders since he was 18 years old and joined the Army.

I'm going on 20 years as a software developer. I've helped him on his route before. He's helped me build sales tracking databases. So we've gotten to have a bit of a peek into each other's worlds. We've had a lot of conversations about the nature of work. Being a software developer is a lot "harder" than being a ditch digger. As a manual laborer, you show up, do your job, go home. It might be physically demanding, but your body eventually adapts. You get stronger. You tolerate the pain better. Baring physical injury, you just keep on trucking.

But software development never gets easier. Nobody knows what is the "right" solution to any problem. Any particular task is potentially unbounded in the time it takes to complete it. You're always working at the limit of your understanding. Indeed, if you aren't, you're wasting time. And that's just the technical portion of the craft. There's also the office politics (which, BTW, blow my dad's mind. He says he's seen people get punched for far less than I've experienced in an office environment).

Or, at least, that's the ideal. I think, anyway. In reality, a lot of people treat software development more like ditch-digging than what I've described. Show up, do what you're told, body molds itself to chair.

How do you tell the difference between just showing up vs. actually doing the real, hard work of having to make risky decisions that might not pay off? I think a good litmus test is, in all that time, working at startups, working for other people, did you ever do anything for yourself? Did you ever make a decision--of any kind, on anything--that was not based on your expectation of how someone else would evaluate it? Your cofounders, your investors, the market, etc.?

In other words, are you the kind of person who gets bored and A) complains about it, or B) finds a box of crayons and some paper? Because option A is looking for orders.

I'm about to turn 39, live in northern England. I've got a daughter who's almost 14 who lives nearby with her mother. Have had a brief marriage when I was living (it up) in Australia about 8 years ago, that ended in divorce almost immediately, but que sera sera. Have had a string of other relationships that all turned sour because of my defects of character, and circumstances being not quite right. Have never had the talent or opportunity to make a success of business.

I'm now about to finish the third year of a philosophy degree, at the university in my hometown. Has taken me five years to get through, in part because of sobriety issues before coming to university after a relationship that left me really traumatised, and falling off the wagon at the end of my 1st-year of study following the needless and horrific suicide of a 19yo fellow student, who went home after our final class of symbolic logic before the summer break and was dead before midnight. (RIP Ceara). Then while recovering I bought a motorbike and got knocked off by a taxi, and ended up in hospital with three broken limbs.

Why am I telling you this? Because as a philosopher and practicing zen Buddhist there's a message you can tell yourself to get some perspective:

Your life doesn't have to look like anything.

Reading your comment I feel that you have some sort of expectation of how your life should be, and then an expectation of how you should feel. I believe "should" is perhaps one of the most unhelpful words in the English language. Yet I feel for you at the same time - when we set goals like succeeding in business or taking care of adulting, it always seems like there should be some sort of payoff and relief at the end, and the tragedy is that if it does come, it's extremely fleeting. The day you sell your business there's a great party and much joy, but then the next day comes "what now?" It's a cruel part of the human condition that our desiring centre's main desire is to satisfy it's own desire, can't actually be satisfied - attempts to satisfy it just lead to it homeostatically adjusting it's desiring level upwards to a new baseline. So while striving for your goals, having met them and very much sorted your life out logistically, it's not surprising that you feel lost.

I think it's a case of perspective, however, that you "feel" like you've hit your zenith though. In some senses that might be right, but if you go into the feeling - check your body and work out "what does this feel like?" you may find that it's not a feeling at all, but just another idea and thought you're telling yourself. It's worth spending the time working out what your feelings are compared to what your thoughts about your feelings are, for me those are often very different things. At 44, you have a long future ahead of you. Consider the idea that teenagers can become great guitarists or artists from scratch within 20 years. You could choose to develop a whole new skillset by the time you're 60. There's a world of opportunity open to you, so try to think that all your efforts have just got you to this point, and that's pretty great, and you have the gift of time and having sorted out your life that probably 90% of the rest of the planet hasn't achieved yet.

So I'd advise looking in to some new goals and things you'd enjoy for the next phase of your life, things that don't necessarily have any sort of commercial or financial "end" in mind. Something genuinely new that you can be challenged by, even if it makes you "feel" awful and go "f*k I'm shit at this and it's not going to change very quickly until I get good at it". Also a good time to really value your beautiful wife something many people would give an arm or a leg for (you say "The Wife" which I get is a bit of fun, but also could indicate a lack of connection and valuing of her, opposed to saying "my gorgeous loving wife"). I'd advise abandoning ideas that any drugs or pills are going to change anything for you. What you're suffering with is the human condition, in a western society, not an illness that needs to be drugged. A good long holiday away from smartphones, tech, and goals also seems like something you'd enjoy, and probably deserve.

Fingers crossed things change for you. I'm sure you have the resources within to make that happen.

S = Selflessness.

0 = Objectivity.

S = Self-awareness.

We tend to feel lost when were aren't challenged or we're hyper focused on ourselves. We tend to feel a level of contentment when we are helping/mentoring others, interacting socially in a positive way, or learning.

Hope that helps.

From an outsider's perspective, your life is the one that I want to live, a life I would call successful! I would kill to be in a position to retire around the age of 40. I hate working! Starting a homestead and living off the land while I kick back and enjoy life, rather than generating profits for some nameless elite in a skyscraper.

You can make any plans you want going forward. What do you value? What is your calling? What is your crusade? The answer lies within.

You mention how much of your life you have devoted to your professional development. Perhaps it's time to be selfish and think just about you and your personal development.

I also don't think ketamine, or psilocybin, would be a bad idea. Many people have gotten lasting benefit, and relief from depression, out of those substances. If you do try one of them, do so in a peaceful, controlled setting, with a very trusted person around. And a lot of art materials! ;)

I suggest finding a hobby that is hard. I like shooting. It's dangerous enough to be exciting and difficult enough to not easily master (if ever), and it's deep enough to keep my mind occupied. I try to go every weekend, spend an hour at the range and feel better on the way home. It also gives me something to look forward to every week. We have a few outdoor ranges in the area so I get fresh air and more outside time too.

You can go deeper by learning how to break them completely down and cleaning them, making your own ammo, or even some minor gunsmithing. There's also a lot of categories. There is target shooting, speed shooting, shooting skeet/trap, long range rifle shooting, lots of stuff.

Shooting might not be for you, but try different things and see if anything piques your interest.

I'm not saying it's the case for everyone, but depression can be a signal that you need to make a change in your life.

If you need inspiration, here's an introduction to my weird hobby and community: https://soatok.blog/2020/04/23/never-underestimate-the-furry...

Also, pick up a copy of The Happiness Hypothesis sometime. https://smile.amazon.com/Happiness-Hypothesis-Finding-Modern...

In summary:

Second or parallel careers

It’s relatively common for people to pursue second careers after their fist has peaked, or because they want to try and find success in a different area. This is especially true if your first career is in an area that is not the optimal environment for your performance – a second, or parallel career can offer the chance to make a difference somewhere else. A second career also creates options; you are less restricted when you have something else to work on.

Drucker identifies three ways to develop a second career:

- Start one – move from one organization to another, different sizes, different industries, or something else altogether

- Develop a parallel career – something on the side, or a part time job

- Social entrepreneurship – spend less time on the main job, and work on another activity (usually nonprofit)

(Abstract copied from: https://willemharmsen.com/notes/managing-oneself/ ).