Tell HN: A $40B company killed my 2yo son. Now they force me to keep silent

You need to consult with a lawyer to decide the way to go from here. He/she can tell you what your odds of winning are, and what the best strategy is. As someone not emotionally involved with the case, and having access to all the details, an impartial person is the best one to trust. I don't think you should see this case as revenge or closure for the death of your son, because you will be disappointed one way or another. You also don't have the personal responsibility to fix the failings of such a huge company.

Personally, the only advice I can give you is that the way you are living is unhealthy. It is an unimaginable tragedy what happened to you, but you have to somehow gather the strength to rebuild your life again. Your reaction is understandable. However, try to think of the way forward as much as possible. You are likely relatively young, and you have the possibility to start over. There is no way to change the past, only the future.

It doesn't bring your child back, but working with an accident attorney who is compassionate and may be able to wage the battle without too much direct involvement from you may get you more of what you feel is justice in this case.

I'm so deeply sorry for your loss, by the way.

Second, most replies assume you have 2 options:

accept the settlement and move on

Reject the settlement and sue

But if you don't have the money to sue, you still don't have to accept the settlement. Just don't sign. You can still make them lose in the court of public opinion. That is, apparently, what they are frightened of. You can make sure every parent at that playground, at the schools where they take their kids, knows how negligent they are. They could sue you for libel, but that would be bad publicity for them (suing a bereaved parent?).

As others have said, you need to make sure your family are okay. If your family want to settle, you do need to address that before deciding. You may need to promise them some other form of closure if you don't want to settle, Eg a time limit on how long you campaign for. It may be that you need a family therapist to help you have that conversation in a nondestructive way

Hey, this is quite concerning. The pain must be unimaginable. And the atmosphere around you (understandably) is also not in a position to help themselves, let alone help others. But, if you do read this, please, get help. Somehow, someway. There is always a solution.

This is a good first step. Seek for help like you sought help here, friend. Best of luck.

I don't know if it helps, but https://www.familiesforsafestreets.org/ might be able to help, or put you in touch with others who can.

Drivers are the leading killers of children in the US. We accept this slaughter without a second thought. I wish people cared.

I have some experience with this sort of fight, against something much larger than yourself that is doing some sort of wrong. My situation is nowhere near as tragic and sad as yours, you have my condolences I couldn’t even imagine being in your position.

My own fight is a mere speck of dust vs your fight.

However what I have learnt is that I perhaps took the wrong path.

You could take the path of moving on. No more fight. Life is so short. These giant organisations can eat up years of your life in court.

This alternative path, move on, build your family anew. Take the settlement. No amount of money can give you your years back, or repair your mental health.

Like literally millions of dollars cannot fix your family that is breaking apart. Your mental health cannot be healed with any amount of money.

Look at what you have now. Who is your family. They are real, alive, they matter, move on, it is so hard. But you need to move on.

Don’t let the system steal your years in endless battles. The thing your fighting is an uncaring machine. And you are burning your years away whilst the machine is effectively immortal.

If I could do it all over again I would not fight.

You ask: What would you do if you were me?

Be selfish, take the settlement, focus on what you have that is alive - your current family. Regrow and move on as much as you can.

Put the past behind you.

OP and his wife have been struggling with the loss of their son, a part of them, for years now. By now they must've heard this advice to move on many times; but it just doesn't feel right to the person experiencing the grief and pain. The people around them, and our community here on HN, needs to provide them with small, actionable steps, so that they can slowly work up from where they are right now, without sacrificing anything or values that they hold dear to their hearts. Asking them to let go is most likely going to be counter-productive.

I know that if I were as selfish as you advise that I’d have immense regrets when looking back on my life.

Yes, look after your interests, but don’t disregard the rest of society.

Given how you have phrased the situation, I don't think you or your wife are in a place to take on battles. Please take care of yourself first, take care of your wife; tell her to take care of herself first, and then to care for you.

Take the advice of others here that makes sense to you. But give that your grief continues on after 2 years of losing your son, I would, if I were you, pick the suggestions (like that of @throwawaylinux) that help you resume normal life; it's definitely not going to be the same normal, but it would be better than how you feel now.

I have experienced personal losses, and it has taken me years to come to terms with my life as it is right now. I'm not fully recovered from those losses, but after a lot of recovery, I now consider myself to be extremely lucky to be healthy, and have a very happy family.

I am in the Bay Area. I can come talk to you, and see if I can be of any help as you navigate this tough part of your life. Please do not hesitate to send me an email [email protected], or share your phone number in email.

Lots of love, and wishing you lots of strength.

==========

Addendum: Of course, the culprits need to be brought to justice; be it the person who did it, the people who let it occur, or the emotionless company that continues its operations as if nothing happened.

But bringing them to justice doesn't have to come at a cost as big as your and your family's mental health. I'm sure you've spoken to lawyers, but if not, please get one. I'm sure there are lawyers who will not cost you anything money wise, and agree to be paid after the settlement. I have personally never dealt with lawyers, so I cannot suggest how to evaluate them; but look for lawyers/practices that treat you with utmost respect, and understand the pain you and your wife are in.

Not getting a legal representation, or just accepting the other party's offer, even if they manage to make it look large for you, will make you feel bad later on. For an auto accident I was in, I dragged my feet, because the money other party's insurance company was offering was not significant for me, and my symptoms were manageable. So when the Statue of Limitations was about to expire, I simply accepted their offer; never engaged an attorney. Now, years later , the symptoms are very hard to manage, and I wish I had engaged an attorney to represent me.

TLDR: Take care of your and your wife's mental well-being, then engage a good lawyer.

Also don't think of the money as the value of your son or the cost of your family suffering. Even if you got a billion dollars I think that thinking could still leave you feeling guilty for accepting it.

I'd consider taking a settlement and forgetting about that company as quickly as possible, and getting medical help for yourself and your wife to work on your mental injuries. See psychologists, grief counseling, find people or support groups who been through similar situations, etc. Your wife and family need you, and your son is going to be with you wherever you are so don't need to sit alone at the cemetery every day to be with him.

All that’s required for evil to flourish . . .

OP, I'm sorry for your loss. Things like this takes everything from us. The only thing we can do is move on and contemplate. In my personal belief, that it is only possible through spirituality. The grief is expected and completely normal. Its a result of your love for your son. The ache will be there throughout your life. I would suggest (if your finances allow), to use the settlement money to do something good for other children on an annual basis (however small it is).

So I am praying for you. This doesn't help directly, but I hope you can know that we are out here, we hear you.

I immediately got a question when I put this into prayer. The question I got was, What your child, your angel child, wish for you and your family? What does that life look like?

So presumptuous and risky for me to pose these questions to you, in your pain. But that's the message I got back: what is the life and light beyond this?

The money and law procedures surely must matter in a real life. What happens after that? What miracle is waiting?

In your position I'd fight, driven by what change I could effect over what I could receive. I'd work to keep my voice (no NDA) and shine as much light as I could on the carelessness and callousness of the company's negligence.

But, more importantly, I'd look for support, of an attorney, of friends, of therapists. Hold your wife's hand and feel your grief, and help her with hers.

I'm in SF. If you ever want to talk about this or nothing at all, DM me. Coffee is on me.

Why isn't this a criminal manslaughter case in the US?

I cannot imagine the pain you have to go through, having kids myself.

That being said, from a rational point of view, I think what you are looking for is closure.

I'm not sure if a multiple year long trial will bring you closure, but that's something you need to consider yourself.

I do know one person who lost his daughter due to a drunk driver. He took the funds, and founded an org to prevent these kind of situations and create awareness about it. He gives a lot of talks about it, and gets lots of coverage by the press.

My gut feeling tells me that - if I would ever be in a situation comparable to him - I would love to be as strong as he is. But, truth to be told, I'm not sure if I'd have enough stamina to follow through...

Sorry for your loss...

At the end of the day, you have to figure out what's best for you and yours. Be extremely selfish here. If fighting is what you feel you need to do, follow your heart, find a sharp legal team.

I empathize w/ you as a father.

I lost my older brother in a similar fashion.

Honestly, this story makes no sense to me. Personal injury lawyers would be drooling over this case. Journalists and politicians would be all over it. That's what happens when there's a tragedy involving a child.[2]

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_Management_(company)

2. https://twitter.com/NYCMayor/status/1214604893518008325

Jeff Bezos likes to optimise for regret minimisation, that's what he did when he decided to build Amazon. In your case:

- If I miss 4 years of salary over doing this, how much am going to regret it? I personally won't that much.

- If I change your mind about this after settling I can't do anything about it. That's going to be a huge regret for me.

Perhaps deep inside you know you should do this legal battle but you're getting resistance from your family. Just like ksternerud said - explain and discuss with your family the potential outcomes and regrets.

I am not a lawyer and don't really know any lawyer who can help. I haven't been through this, nor do I have kids.

https://www.habitsforwellbeing.com/the-regret-minimisation-f...

Sounds like you already know what you want to do. If you need help, please see a professional therapist. It isn't weakness, it isn't for other people, it isn't weird. You've had some serious trauma. Your lawyer makes a bad therapist. Court systems make for bad therapy. HN comments will never be the answer to something so deeply personal.

I hope for the best for you and your family.

Attrition favors the party with more resources. Don't drag it out. After two years and without the full support of family, it sounds like you may have already lost.

That doesn't mean that you can't start another war later. Gather your resources. You can build a better company, or join a competitor. Or you can tackle the legal/regulatory aspects now that you have a story that you can't talk about.

Use the pain and anger as fuel. But the fuel has to be burned or it will destroy you from within, the longer you ruminate on it.

There also might be non-profits and communities that are dedicated to handling such cases that might have helpful resources.

Definitely talk to a lawyer, though.

You need everyone steeled for combat, and ways to shelter those who can't handle it (without judgment). You need to develop a strategy, and it must encompass your entire clan.

A campaign is not fun. It takes years of blood, sweat and tears, and it's not even guaranteed. You need to decide what losses (yes you'll have them) you can handle, and which you can't.

But start with the family in a respectful way that honors how each member feels (including yourself) and what they can do. You'll get nowhere without their support. You need to listen to them, and they to you (but mostly you listening to them).

And if you can't get their support, then I'm sorry you'll have to let it go. Going in without it will tear your family apart.

Other advice is good here that was posted.

My tragedy is not even 1% the same as yours but I will share it to show how it was resolved

1. Lodge a formal complaint with company if you haven't already.

2. Speak to lawyers

3. Speak to local officials, councillors and senior politicians. These people represent you.

4. Threaten to go to papers or social media with your story.

5. At this point normally a big company will escalate to a specific team if you do step 4. To mitigate PR backlash

6. Reiterate your demands

7. Come to a resolution

1. Let the lawyer fight your legal fight 2. Make sure the legal battle get publicity even if you settle with the company not admitting any guilt 3. Use the settlement money for your own betterment and however you deem beneficial to a cause personal to you.

Personally I would go with family as primary and prevention as secondary. That does not mean the other choices are in some way less, it just reflects my personal beliefs.

First, you need to find a way to end your period of grieving. The purpose of your life is to live it, and your not fulfilling that.

If your Christian, consider following the Jewish periods of mourning, that are intended to enable you to return to life, and the lives of those around you. While Christian doctrine says that Judaism is obsolete and replaced, consider that Jesus would have done it the same way.

Second, I am not your lawyer. Sign nothing and pursue a wrongful death charge against the driver if that is the case. Depending on the circumstances one of the charges of manslaughter might be applicable. Why is this not being pursued by the authorities in your jurisdiction?

Sue the company for negligence if you really do have grounds. If you do not, then stop this thinking.

This is the path that respects your son, not you sitting by his grave at the cemetery every day. More than that, respect him (and your family) by setting an example and returning to life.

You want/need a good lawyer here (be careful—plenty will see $$). I always advise clients to make use of their network to get a good referral. Otherwise, it can be hard to penetrate the smoke and mirrors of legal marketing.

As much as I can be salty and cynical about my profession (I’m a lawyer, in case that’s not clear), this is what we’re trained for. You want a gladiator.

Feel free to ask any follow up questions, and I pray you can find some modicum of peace in the years to come.

Personally, the damage is done. While no amount of money can ever bring your son back, you could at least do some good with anything you get from the company. So don't take this as getting money in return for your son's life, that is now what this is. With that in mind, I'd personally think about two ways: - Increase the amount (at least $1 million) and put a condition in your agreement to keep silent. The condition should be for the company to look into the shortcoming and correct it, with an assessment a few months later (either internal or by yourself) whose report should be provided to you. - Failing the first, take them to court if you know you can win. This will not only (hopefully) increase what you get, but also forces them to correct themselves

Please live your life. This tragedy will follow you forever, but it doesn't need to consume you.

You should really, _really_ speak to a therapist. This one of the best things you could do, by a far margin. It will help you in your life much more than getting a big sum from the company that wants to shut you up.

Wishing you strength,

I would find a support group of others who have experienced this loss and understand the magnitude of the situation, as well as seek guidance from a grief counselor who specializes in the loss of a child.

I urge you not to spend your life in litigation. You cannot litigate against future harm.

Take the money and move with your wife to a new place where you can write new stories. And like others have said: please make sure that you are meeting with a therapist.

You are loved. You are not alone.

I have been fighting an insurance company for many many years now. They do not care about anything at all.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201407/tragedy-loss...

What you learn in that will help you.

You may also need to accept that it might be out of your power to fix this situation. That doesn't mean you failed your son. It means that the world around us is broken. As individuals we can't always do anything to fix it. And I'm not saying don't fight. I'm saying count the cost.

But there is something that's broken that you can do something about: Your surviving family. They need you. You need them. Focus on the living and your son will never be forgotten. It already took his life. Don't let it take yours too.

The Bible teaches that when a body dies the existence has ended. But yours continues, so focus on taking care of yourself and your wife. Hang in there. It does get better but you have to work toward that. Work on regaining focus on the things that are most important so that you can help your family get through every day.

I will pray that God comforts you the way he is comforting me.

They want you to remain silent? That would be reason enough for me to drag them through the media.

He should speak to a lawyer, his family and probably a therapist.

Speak to a lawyer. Speak to a therapist.

Good luck and a virtual hug from me.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/lawsuitesawardssettlements.p...

Wrongful Death

Claims for wrongful death usually encompass compensatory damages for physical and mental injury, as well as punitive damages for reckless, malicious, or reprehensible conduct. As a result, both claims may generate settlement amounts. Any amounts determined to be compensatory for the personal physical injuries are excludable from gross income under IRC § 104(a)(2). Any amounts determined to be punitive are not excludable under IRC § 104(a)(2). This is true regardless of whether the punitive amounts are received prior or subsequent to the August 20, 1996, amendment. See O’Gilvie v. United States, 519 U.S. 79 (1996). Caution, however, should be used in applying the general rule that punitive damages received in wrongful death case are taxable. Historically, the courts have looked to the state statute under which the wrongful death claim was litigated to determine whether there could be compensatory and/or punitive damages awarded. This search may reveal a state statute which provides only for punitive damages in wrongful death claims. In these cases, IRC § 104(c) allows the exclusion of punitive damages for amounts received after 1996.

It's oddly phrased: > killed by a garbage truck next to a children's playground

Well, if playground is next to road and the kid was on the road it's not really (entirely) fault of the driver. So we should first get straight facts what happened and who is responsible for it, instead trying to blame just one party.

Only based on facts can anyone provide you recommendation how to approach it legally and mentally, because it's very different if you are in right and not responsible at all or you are partially responsible for the death.

Going to cemetery every day for 2 years is for sure not healthy approach, it won't help bring your son back. I have two kids and can't imagine what I would be doing if something like this happened to them, if I would be able to work and how I would be dealing with such loss, but you should see therapist.

I lost my mom last year, and I can't imagine what it would be like to lose one of my kids.

Not sure what jurisdiction you're in, but here are some things to consider.

1. The law on wrongful death in your jurisdiction. Many states have caps. Was the offer close to the cap?

2. Punitive damages. You don't get punitive damages for ordinary negligence. Typically it requires a reckless disregard for the rights of others, e.g. 66 in a 65 doesn't cut it, but 100 might. You mentioned that he fled. That is largely irrelevant - the issue is what he was doing at the time of the accident. What did the mediator think your chances for punitive damages?

3. Be realistic about what a trial will accomplish. Mostly it will be billable hours for the defense attorneys and experts. Chances are its not going to change how the company operates any more than the tragedy already has.

Again, my condolences.

If someone killed my baby and tried to pay me off and sign an NDA, they would be living on borrowed time.

I can't tell you what to do, but the harsher the sanctions they face, the more likely they are to put steps in place to stop this happening to someone else. The cunts.

That sounds like you technically have adequate resources to legally throw the book at this situation. IMHO that's objectively the most (only?) important part. The problem is fundamentally solved. It's just a question of logistics.

And on that note, it sounds like the emotional toll this has taken has been paralyzing. This is completely reasonable given the circumstances. Traumatizing events can indeed latch the emotions into a state that make it painful if not impossible to fight back from a position of strength.

There was a thread on HN a little while ago about hiring executive/personal assistants (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29336234), with one comment that particularly leapt out at me (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29341375) as it really inspired an appreciation of the potential of what a good EA could be and do.

In this situation, I think it might be interesting to find a good EA/PA or project manager to coordinate the litigation process and keep you out of the proceedings as much as possible. Their empathetic encouragement would help you with the day-to-day of keeping on keeping on, and their drive and aggression would help to represent your interests in those ways you currently cannot.

This EA/PA/PM would also coordinate the process of getting you adequate psychological support to help patch together what can never fully heal :(. The shorter-term focus would be on getting you functional so the 1-10% of the litigation process you do still have to participate in is not utterly unpalatable, and the medium-/longer-term focus would naturally be on healing and optimizing/aiming for restoration wherever possible.

The bittersweet caveat in this process is that, depending on how things play out, the transformative nature of this person's involvement in your life may mean that you may well retain a long-term professional working relationship for a very long time, or you may want to move on by leaving this person in the past and never talking to them again at some point.

In terms of finding someone good, it could be useful to simply throw everyday busywork at them, the stuff you're already doing, so you have things to bikeshed about and duke out that aren't charged full of emotionally-fraught reference points. After you think you have a culture fit maybe you can relinquish one or two "we usually manage this" things, and if they don't blow those up then you can properly launch. A bit of a project, but it's probably better to take charge by limping along in slow motion rather than hand the keys over immediately only to realize everything's being misrepresented and you're being taken advantage of, which would certainly hurt a lot.

The best part about all of this: it all fits into the scope of the lawsuit, so this person's costs would be able to be recouped as part of the final settlement, possibly independently to the agreed-upon payout.

Ideally, I would do that, given that I could get over the grief and somehow become enlightened... but then it is easy to imagine being enlightened when it comes to problems one is not facing themself.

In reality, however, I would live a miserable depressed life stuck in past trauma waiting for inevitable end of my suffering, like I do with the problems I personally have in my life.

I have come to learn that Vipassana meditation, Peter A. Levine's trauma therapy work, Ayuaschia and a whole lot of spiritual and other practices and therapies are supposed to help one get out of the rut and move on... but I have yet to find anything or have access, or have ability or will to find anything that has worked for me.

Honestly? Get over it, move on with your life. Think of all the suffering that your son won’t experience due to this.

This is not about "fighting evil corp" nor getting involved in humanitarian aid. With this logic we should all stop what we are doing right now and help kids in poor countries or maybe send them to "a better place".

I'd rather give a chance to the community to fairly punish whoever violate rules written to prevent this from happening in the first place, and a lawyer will help.