Smart!

Very good advice since different languages express the same idea different ways. This way you avoid colloquialisms that may not be clearly translated to another language.
“colloquialisms”! Good word. Thanks Tom. — Derek

This relates a lot to http://blog.dilbert.com/post/127310496506/the-day-you-became-a-better-writer-2nd-look, which I think will be helpful to a lot of people.

Your translator idea is a great one, I had similar training by following the very strict guidance of my editor, Gordon Tretick, Managing Editor at "Show Business" - where I was employed to review Off-B'way & Off-Off productions. He cut my purple prose and taught me to employ both brevity and clarity so well that I was able to qualify for a position requiring brief & cogent situation summaries for top brass at AvonProducts.

Best to you, Ariel Joseph

This is helpful too because unfortunately peoples reading IQ's have gone down a bit it seems and there attention span so anything that is more streamlined and geared for simpler faster consumption will be more favorable to the reader. Thus inviting them to want to read more!. Great viewpoint to share Derek!

I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time.

- Blaise Pascal, in 1656

Excellent post Derek. I live in Montreal, Quebec and EVERYTHING English must be presented and available in French. I learned quite quickly that if the person translating my work didn't understand what I had written (immediately) I knew I hadn't explain it clearly enough. Working with my translator helped me write less technically, more user-friendly. It is a great exercise for everyone.

Great idea Derek, a cheaper solution is to use Google Translate. If Google struggles doing a proper translation that means that your language could be simplified. This has worked very well for me for English>Spanish. Since I'm native on both those languages and I can tell if the automatic translation is good or not.

I like it. I won't necessarily get my work translated, but I will try to write as if it will be.
Exactly. I'm glad you got that point. I don't often actually hire a translator, but having done so in the past has helped my future writing. — Derek

it's the same reason why I shoot film and not digital...every frame has a tangible cost so it forces me to be much more mindful and awake to the photos I make = much higher success rate

As a translator/translation consultant, I'll say you're spot on, Derek.

Linguistics ☺ love that area.
Along the lines of being able to understand it - also try letting someone who is totally ignorant about the subject matter- read it through - and let them tell you if they followed the main idea and understood what you thought was point. You'd be surprised by how way off those 2 things can be...
Ignorance can be a strength sometimes.

You've overlooked that Translators paid by the word have an incentive to be verbose.
They're paid by the source language word count, not target language word count. — Derek

Translation is a natural process to discover the true meaning that lies beneath the words.
When the message doesn' belong anymore to language, culture, way of saying, literary figures... then you're staring at the bone of the concept.
I experienced it in many contexts, from professional life to Bible reading.

Makes Perfect Sense !! Love it

that would be 50 cents

I had an old boss who told me to think of every word that I took out as a dollar going in my pocket. It was good advice.

Brevity, my daily intention.

I like what Luca wrote :)

Hi Derek,

This is really fascinating! Your innovation is what I admire.
So, this brings me to a question for you. When did you start
knowing you were on to something with CD Baby? I ask
with my own business in mind and the innovation I'm focused
to bring to the same industry.


Thanks!
David

Coming from a journalism background, and having a mom who was an English teacher (man, she was brutal with her red pencil, chopping my papers down to size) your translator advice is good, Derek.

I'm not ready to translate my book yet, but I've been studying Spanish on my own with Duolingo and running sentences from my book thru Google Translate, which really helps give one a feel for the non-native language. I highly recommend it!

I improved my writing after having read 'on writing well' by William Zinsser. It was recommended on a Tim Ferriss podcast. I highly recommend it too.

Edit!!

IT'S GOOOD!

Great advice Thanks

Hello. I've been enjoying your work on and off for a long time. Thank you for the contribution.
This is my new English blog that I started recently.
http://onecircleenglish.blog.jp/

All the best,
Yoko

Good afternoon Derek! This thought could go in so many different ways..I guess from growing up with a father who works in languages and translating I can see the value of words, meanings and interpretations of them. I have discovered that the meaning of words can be misinterpreted. Words, and to be understood, both come with a value. It is actually fasinating to find out what a word really means...! Well in hopes of not becoming too wordy...☺ always thought provoking! Thank you Derek! ☺

Well said, Derek! Also, when you translate your work into another language "figures of speech", like jargon, euphemisms, and colloquialisms, become a big problem because they do not translate well. It is best to get rid of them and focus on saying what you want to say. Otherwise you could be "jumping at the sun with a hoe" -- a term that is meaningless to most, but Polish people know it means attempting a task that you cannot handle. (porywać się z motyką na słońce)

Reaching people requires getting your meaning across without sending them off to find reference books so they can figure out what you're saying.
☺ Fun example. Thanks! — Derek

If you like adopting new perspectives, that's one of the values of learning a foreign language. You get to think in new ways and question how you think.

As you get to fluency, it's like going meta: you become able to choose just which OS you operate in.


Speaking of meta… Thanks for the translations. Started using your blog to practice my Russian. Short articles + translations + TTS (from OS X) make for a nice combo.


This article reminded me of one of my favorite quotes from William Strunk, Jr. in The Elements of Style:

“A sentence should contain no unnecessary words, a paragraph no unnecessary sentences, for the same reason that a drawing should have no unnecessary lines and a machine no unnecessary parts.”

…applies to coding just as well.


P.S.: which language are you learning?

Hmmm, interesting, never crossed my mind, but definitely makes sense about a translator. I just wonder about the future of language, if it is increasingly an art form. Even though the practical communication is favouring more and more short term, short attention span, succinct,.. Forms of expression. I think there is a divide between simple, practical and traveling the surface of the sea or ocean, enjoying all the advantures and diversities faster whereas complexities are maybe those underneath the surface, taking a submarine and exploring the fantastic world of imagination that requires more complex technology when it comes to the sea and oceans and mind is the same, it builds on those behind them. There is a universal trajectory towards complexities everywhere when it comes to the intelligent life be it human or machines, I think language might echo this. I could never imagine for instance some of the deep philosophical works such as Thus spoke Zarathustra in a simple language, or even James Joyce's stream of consciousness.

I like to listen to any non-native English speaker speaking or writing English. I pay attention to their "mistakes" (e.g. strange phrasing, grammatical mistakes). I've found this allows me to enter their way of thinking. Often it even allows me to translate their "mistake" word-for-word and have a correct sentence in their primary language. Thanks for sharing, Derek!

Thank you. This is an excellent suggestion!

Unless you translated for Marcel Proust

Sounds spor-on to me - English Lit./Comp 101, right?
Less is better. Probably I should apply to talk, as well. Thank you for the reminder.

good.
it's a basic premise taught at school:
be concise.

Great idea.

Editing is like pulling weeds from my flower beds.

Weeds are unnecessary, they don't belong, and they take energy away from the flowers.

Keep the flowers, edit the weeds.

xo
Pamela

Derek,

That's a lovely example of economics in action. It moved the cost of wordiness from the reader to the writer. Love it!

I learned how to thin my own writing from two books.

1. I found the advice in the first 1/3 of "Revising Prose" by Roger Lanham incredibly useful, because it taught me to write in active voice.

(https://www.amazon.com/Revising-Prose-5th-Richard-Lanham/dp/0321441699/ref=la_B000APHY68_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1497994704&sr=1-2)

2. Editor-Proof Your Writing: 21 Steps to the Clear Prose Publishers and Agents Crave by Don McNair is full of tips and examples.

(https://www.amazon.com/Editor-Proof-Your-Writing-Publishers-Writers/dp/1610351789/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8)

I used the techniques from those two books to chop roughly 20k words from my business novel but then my editor pruned another 10k. I don't know how she did that - skill perhaps! - but she was worth every penny I paid her.

Clarke

Then, find a friend who speaks the translated language, and let them translate it back to you as a favor. It's amazing what comes from this exercise! The late Leonard Cohen had anyone interested in translating his songs translate their translation back into English for him before he agreed to allow the songs to be recorded. My friend said it was the most difficult, yet best thing he ever did!

this is the same with making a film!

Now you tell me Derek???
I'm Irish. For thousands of years, our philosophy has been " why use one word, when two will suffice"
Ah well

Great thought. This is timely for me, as I'm writing my first novel right now and it's about 120,000 words and counting. Perhaps I need to go thru and do some chopping! ;)

How about translating it to another language and then translating it back to English. Will it hold the same meaning or does it need improving?

A good example of the difficulty of simplicity in translation is the early examples of chinglish where manufacturers were using robots like Google Translate to facilitate product description and directions. Simplicity was essential in those days.

English to Frecnh to English =

To hone your writing = To sharpen your pen
chop every unnecessary word = cut off all superfluous words.
Talk with your translator = Dialogue with your translator

Interesting alternitve phrase options

Also applicable to writing emails. Less is more. Thanks for the reminder, good advice!

Yes! I used to work as a translator (Japanese to English) and I think that made me really start noticing how much English is so badly written that I would feel sorry for anyone tasked with translating it.

Less is more and less is always more powerful.

EN: The message should be the same but any language has its way to express It.
I like how the picture represents the process of removing the excess to expose the core concept.

ES: El mensaje ha de ser el mismo pero cada lenguaje tiene su manera de expresarlo.
Me gusta como la fotografía representa el proceso de eliminación del sobrante para exponer el concepto central.

EN: I would cut time from my own business to translate your texts any day. Seriously!

ES: Yo me quitaría tiempo de trabajo, en mi propia empresa, para traducir tus textos sin pensármelo dos veces. ¡En serio!

Yes, and use simple language. If you write clearly and simply, you lower the chances of being misunderstood, and you broaden your audience (fog index).
This reminded me of xkcd and Thing Explainer (https://xkcd.com/thing-explainer/), where " things are explained [...] using only drawings and a vocabulary of the 1,000 [...] most common words".

Thanks for this, very good idea! I have been working on this for years and know the more I can cut out, it is likely to be a much better read. I like the idea of a translator for the feed back and new perspective.

Wishing you well and good to hear from you!

This is a good example of "less is more"...

I think it depends on what you are writing. I'm writing a travel adventure memoir so I don't think this sort of thinking applies to what I'm writing

Just tweeted this with the comment, 'Can u improve your writing by just imagining you're paying a translator?' (https://twitter.com/Prof_Alistair/with_replies)

It may re-orientate the way some folk think about their writing craft. Anything interesting comes back, I'll let you know!

Well hello there!!!

When I read your article “Ego is the enemy- https://sive.rs/ego” I was thinking to myself : - I wish Derek would write something I could use to improve my writing skills.
Now I know what Jack Black means with mind bullets!

I know that you'll get like a thousand comments on this post. I'll be thinking out loud here and I don't expect you to answer this. Tim Ferriss talks about changing the way you look at things by asking yourself :

What if I did the opposite?

What if I write my story in English and then get it translated into Swedish by a professional?
That way I'd be able to see my second language texts through the eyes of an English native speaker.

I think I'm onto something because this really makes me feel uncomfortable. What if I don't like my translated text? Which I paid money for, ha ha!
And here's another problem. This means I will have to write something that has real value. Because my wife will kill me when I tell her that I'm going to pay someone for translating my crappy English texts into Swedish... Damn you Derek!!!

With that said, thank you Derek, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your posts. I like the picture!
I'm a fan!

//Björn

I like it. But I was a little troubled at the thought of Tolkien putting LOTR through such a process. Perhaps it would read more like Cormac McCarthy's The Road? I combed through the comments (maybe a translator would choke a little on that phrase and I'd end up using "searched") and I think Erin and I are on the same page. But... I'm torn. I know simplicity and brevity are key but isn't part of the artestry lost if there isn't a balance between that and flowery language? No y'all , I'm really asking :)
Different writing for different purposes. See the book “On Writing Well” for my approach. — Derek

"I am not a devotee of the Cult of Succinctness" —Noam Chomsky

"Soulwise, these are trying times" —Strunk & White

Seven Types of Ambiguity (1930) by William Empson

Q: Mr. Eliot, what did you mean when you wrote "Lady, three white leopards sat under a juniper tree"?
T. S. Eliot: I meant, "Lady, three white leopards sat under a juniper tree."

As a translator I really appreciate that. It's enough that you neee to adjust for grammatical and syntax differences, so then the last thing you wanna do is try to figure out "what did the author mean by that". I think some people should be charged an extra interpretation fee when they get too poetic, on top of the standard translation charge.

Once again you come to me with such wisdom. Thank you. I've sure missed you and your articles. Brilliant man!

Mary

Loving the increased frequency of posts! Not enough thoughtful bloggers out there, or at least not enough that I follow.

Thank you for this. I enjoyed trying to read it in French and Chinese too!

I agree when it comes to conveying points of information.

But when reading fiction in translation it's sometimes the colloquialisms (love the word too!) I don't understand that draw me deeper into experiencing a different culture.

Hey Derek,

Just a small heads up. On the Portuguese translation there's an "?" on the title which doesn't make sense, as the title is not asking a question.
Good catch! Fixed. Thank you Tiago. — Derek

Should it be just for non- fiction?

Ps. My father's cancer is in relatively early stage and he is in good condition, eat well, sleep well, enjoys his hobbies while on chemo

Many thanks for your email reply to my query a few months ago :)

Excellent advice, Derek! We were taught this in English classes, in High School!!!!

You always come up with brilliant ideas I can use out of the box. Got a presentation due July 1st on guitar ergonomics, and I tell you, I won't read my slides like so many do. Great images, few words. When people will see the image, they'll remember the words, and the opposite. The only caveat: images don't translate into all languages... Definitely going hire a translator as I gotta have the 75-pages memoir that goes with the presentation translated in English. I can do, but there's undoubtedly someone better than I am for such a task. Sorry for the long comment. Say, forget everything and read: "timely and smart advice!"

That is a great technique to focus on what is needed in writing and what is not.

I have been using a similar technique when I write and review work. I ask myself the question "Could my parents understand this?". If they I don't think I they could, I modify the words or remove words that overcomplicate the text. Slightly different than the amount of words, but I find it helps me in choosing words that are effective to communicate and removing words that aren't.

I use my parents as I can imagine the scenario of me explaining a topic to them. Other people can be substituted in, children, grandparents etc.

Yes, now it's very low cost to hire a translator. I'm a Korean language user.

Twitter has forced me to economize on words.
I sometimes write comedy tweets by sending to inappropriate
People or news sources. I find myself 😂

Hi Derek, I find every article you share a pearl of wisdom. I love their brevity. I am currently writing the content for my new blog, and I needed to hear exactly this message. Less is more. If 1 simple sentence says it all - go for it. I also want my blog to be translated later in Bulgarian and French, so it was useful to think about text from the perspective of the translator.

Thank you for inspiring. I hope all your projects are going as you wish, and life is meaningful and fulfilling! Happy summer solstice. Greetings from Sofia, Bulgaria.

Hey Derek,
Another time thank you for a great SHORT article / advice! I always admire you and wonder how one can keep it as in point and as short as you!
I worked for an IT company and had to translate their idea of a new start up into 3 languages and at the beginning I didn't even understand the idea hahha but then they explained it well and we re-wrote it in a more user friendly way!

Hi Derek. As always straight ahead wisdom goes a long way. I was always taught in school to say what you mean and mean what you say. This will always bode well since it is easy in communication to get "Sidetracked". When you think of it this is something I think we can all stand to improve upon. Thanks for putting it into dollars and cents/sense...get it?

I love you brother.
You are amazing. If ever you want to translate anything in Hindi or Gujarati (Indian languages). You can count on me.
May God keep showering best on you.
Salim Kotadiya

Sound advice, Derek. Cutting unnecessary words will make the writing punchier and clearer. Many people realize that written English is at its most powerful when the words are simple and the sentence are short. Of course, a long word or sentence now and then is fine as it adds spice and texture to the prose. But the foundation should be based on simplicity.

There are some interesting parallels with the spoken word and working with interpreters which I often did during my years working at the United Nations, the International Organization for Migration and the World Health Organization. I compiled the lessons in this post: https://mannerofspeaking.org/2012/04/08/lost-in-translation-ten-tips-for-working-with-interpreters/

Cheers!

John
Good one. Thanks John. — Derek

Yup yup yup. Great advice. Even better: learn a language or two?

I did a similar approach in digital photography. If a photo didn't seem to be worth the cost of a high quality print (say 5$ per copy), I would sort it out.

I love seeing the languages side by side.

I had a look at the code (https://code.sive.rs/sive.rs/content/blog/2017-06-21-tra). Why did you translate each sentence in each language rather than have the whole article in one language followed by another? Surely it took much longer to write this way?
Just playing with different approaches. Thanks for the view-source. I'm always kind of honored when someone does that, since I put so much work into it. ☺ — Derek

There's a typo in the German version! ;)

I didn't know about the payment for the source language word count, maybe I should adapt that for my translations. As they're usually very short, this would be a 5 percent raise.

Great point, Derek!

After reading the article I was thinking of cases when people who are less familiar with other languages start speaking louder when they talk to a foreigner))
And also after reading the comments and the Russian translation of the article I have to add that the problem is much deeper than colloquialisms. It is the way different cultures think and hence formulate sentences. For example, the Russian translation is very good but it is a good literal translation of what you said in English. And if your thought originated in Russian from scratch it would have never sounded like that translation.
That is way there is such thing as transcreation - a higher level of translation where you translate the meaning often using completely different words than the source text. I know it was not the point of your article but I had to share)

For me much of the joy of reading comes from a fascination for language. And languages are specific and particular and can't be translated perfectly. If your only goal is to convey content it's a good idea, but I personally I think the text will lose richness.

This is so helpful! One day, I hope to try this!
Thank you, Derek!

Thanks, Derek. Glad to see you staying on the wave...ride it to the shore!

Yes! I do this constantly : otherwise the cost is too high but it does take time to reduce the text. Very often I find myself re-writing titles so that the translation will fit into the space allowed (often for website menus).

It is more difficult to write succinctly while retaining cogent presentation. Many who write prefer to write expansively.

I don't know who invented the BIFF method but it works for me.

Brief
Informative
Firm
Friendly

No fluff or fancy.

"If you can communicate the same idea with fewer words, it’s more likely to be read and understood." - Why?
Thanks for questioning this. I meant for me, for my online audience, for my articles on my website. If an article is too long, less people take the time to read it. If you can make the same point in less words, more people are likely to read it, since it takes less time. Of course writers of deep books (fiction or not) have a different criteria. — Derek

Hi Derek, in addition to music I've become very involved in writing in the past 10 years, and in translating as I now live in South America. If you have a chance, I wonder if you can recommend any professional translation software specifically for literary projects (rather than the standard business use). I wish to use the software for the "first pass" in order to edit from that point. Thanks!
Sorry I don't know of any. — Derek

Thanks Derek!
I am almost finished with my new novel: "World's Greatest Hitchhiker; Observations from the Peanut Gallery". I have an editor but hadn't thought of a translator. Pricey! Good suggestions for excessive words on the chopping block.

Wow that's a big cost think I will become a translator

WOW! This was a great perspective! Thank you for sharing this with us today!

Happy First day of Summer from NYC,

It sounds great & thanks!

Thanks for the great idea Derek. I have a parenting class that I wanted to offer in Spanish and I did hire a translator, best idea ever. I toyed with the idea of using Google Translate but felt someone who was actually out there speaking and writing would be a better use of time and money and it has paid off. Being short and concise has helped me in other areas as well, just get in there and say what you mean! Great topic!

Very good idea! Never thought of it that way, but since I don't like writing in general...I might come to the same result;)

Great idea!

I've often found that writing my ideas down into a foreign language first with my rudimentary foreign language skills forces me to break down sentences into smaller phrases, use smaller, simpler words, and find the period much sooner. We are taught to be intelligent or successful we must write with bigger words and with more complex sentence structures. However, simpler writing is easier to read and understand. Thanks for the thought!
Very interesting idea! Thanks David. — Derek

If you aren't going to publish in a foreign language, there is another technique I learned about in grant writing: hire an intelligent Martian. If he could understand your text, the average English-speaking reader could, too. It keeps you from taking for granted that jargon or slang is ok to use. It motivates you to be as concise and clear as possible.
If no intelligent Martian is available to you, substitute someone from another department or another line of work, and offer to be their intelligent Martian in exchange.

Totally right.. Short and Clear...

As a student in France I used to do very complicated translations from French to Spanish. These were baroque music manuals for a CD collection. Texts often talked about instruments that don't exist anymore. Some of the manuals were so complex in French that they were not understandable at all. I figured that out trying to translate them. I ended up asking the writer to correct and/or suggesting options myself to the original text.. Translation is by FAR the most complex exercise when done right... At least in my experience..

Any recommendations for a good translator service?
Great idea as always.. Thanks a million...
I think it's best to ask people who already know your writing. — Derek

Sound advice. If only today's alleged Blues guitarists would exercise the same brevity. B.B. said it all with just a few notes. Shredding ain't Blues.

Yet more great advice. Thanks. I speak Spanish fluently and have found that it has improved my English for a similar reason. I write and speak more clearly. I strive to be more concise and direct. Imagine interpreting Donald Trump into another language and you get the perfect example problem you discuss. FYI, translation is written and interpretation is oral. It's common for people to call interpreting, translation.

Hi Derek,
I posted the article on the facebook of ifudofhumanrights

best regards,
Jan

This is a great idea! Thanks Derek!

Hi, Derek. Your spanish translator should be better at his/her punctuation. It's not very well written. And thanks for sharing your ideas with all of us!

Hi. Completely agree. Great advice. If you have the budget that will help you getting more objective.

Regards,

Estela

Excellent idea Derek!!!

The first time I read this article was in Chinese, cause I am a Chinese.
But I do not understand it at all.

When I read it in English the second time, I can truly understand what's the meaning of if.

Funny?

Time to hire your Chinese translator, email me, and for free!

Thanks Derek!

I'm going to try this on my newest batch of songs.

Thank you for pointing people in the direction of Ari Herstand.

Attending his seminars & reading his book have led me to a lot of innovative opportunities & mindsets.

I'm a huge fan of you & appreciate all you do.

Please write more posts, do more interviews & give more talks. :)

/J

Derek, you're one creative dude. I really enjoy reading your stuff!

Good and highly-ponderable point for me, Derek. I am quite visual and very detail oriented so I try to give you a possible background or any relevant facts that will provide a rich picture of the topic/conversation at hand - that would make translation quite expensive for me!! I also like to write well so will give your point a good deal of consideration. Gracias!

Less is more.

To hone your writing, learn a second language.
Sure, working closely with a translator will force you to be clearer, shorter, express your ideas in a more focused ideas way. But the real jewels of subtlety of understanding how an idea can truly be expressed in a different language have no comparison. Language is the cornerstone not only to communication but to thought itself. Learning a new language is the ultimate exercise in learning to listen, which is what a writer needs to practice in reading, hearing and understanding not only his writings anew, but his own ideas.I would say "To TRANSFORM your writing, learn a new language." But we live in society thirsty for a quick fix, the shortest path of highest return. I have learned in life "The truly valuable things in life take a long time."

Genius idea. Second choice - collaborate with senior writer. Write like you are sending old fashioned telegram when you are charged by the word. Read text OUT LOUD to hear how stilted it sounds. Better yet, record your words and LISTEN like it was a voice mail. Killer experience.

Agree, especially since people's attention span is short. To the message, to the point. Hence the idea behind the phrase "short and sweet. Puis, bonne idée de l'avoir en français aussi. Ma manca l'italiano :)

"How would you explain it to a guy down the pub?" - the best bit of advice I ever received at the very start of my journalism career many years ago.

The principle is simple - forget using jargon, complicated words or phrases, or buzzwords, and simply explain what you want to get across in a way that anybody can understand (the 'anybody' here is the imaginary man down the pub (or bar, cafe, etc depending on where you live).

During my journalism career, on local and then a national newspaper in the UK, this bit of advice served me really well. Newspapers generally (and some are much better than others at this) are experts at this.

Here in the UK you can check this yourself by comparing a couple of national newspapers - such as the top selling Sun newspaper to the high brow Financial Times - for the same story. You'll see The Sun is expert at communicating to the 'man in the pub' (or 'white van man' as he is known in the UK) and getting across often complex messages in a simple (often crude!) way.

In my experience, corporate literature (whether in print or online format) is often the very worst when it comes to communicating clearly. I challenge you to try and read a corporate annual report and understand every word of it!

Some sectors are worse at this than others; generally I've found NGO and charitable organisations are much better in their written communications than financial institutions for example.

Of course you could argue that the customer of these institutions isn't typically the man down the pub (but rather other financial institutions), but it can seem to some that these organisations have a secret language they use when communicating between themselves that is purposefully used to exclude my mate down the pub!

So forget about the jargon, and drop the buzzwords and insider language, and instead simply think about explaining what you want to say, either verbally or in writing, in a really simple way that anyone can understand.

Getting your idea across with the least words is a brilliant idea
However Do you hire translators or use Google Translate? :)
The main point of this idea is that each word should cost you real money. — Derek

Hi Derek!
What a great idea! Im going to try it. Have a grrrreat weekend!!!

Hi Derek,
Very interesting idea. I certainly would consider given the opportunity.
Thank you, and take good care.
Pete

I like it. I won't necessarily get my work translated, but this is great advice. Thanks for sharing with us.

Hemingway did it. duh He didn't pay anyone. duh duh

Like writing a song
Every word is creating a creating emotions, melody vibe
again,thank's for sharing
Mentor

Love

Efrat

Huh, that is an excellent way of looking at it, Derek! Valuing our words in this way, we also value the time people spend reading our work. There is no shame in work that's succinct, to the point and says just what needs to be said to drive the point home. Great post. Shared it.

I would recommend the book "Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace" (12th Edition).

As a Chinese researcher, who studied in France , there were times I needed to explain something in three languages.
The translation process does improve the presentation of the material.
Because information "flow" is the same, and is more about "clarity and grace".

Oh, this is damn challenging. I try to imagine writing to a 7-year old student. Short. And very simple language.

Hello Derick: in my opinion to simplify lyric can make it easier for rhythm, rhyme, and harmony, the potential for communication with the greater population is highly increased. There's better one on one for the listeners connection between people, and probably more fun for them. ( make it real) Therefore if there's a language barrier I would only pay for the deepest emotion for least amount of words of course. I trust my inner feelings because that's where we all find the universal language. (Between each other)

Great insight; thanks for sharing!

Interesting. I never considered this approach.

Dear Derek,

I am a translator, and what you say makes sense. What would help most translators is carefully constructed syntax.

If you ever need something translated into Spanish, or from Spanish to English, let me know.

Kind regards,
Dorothy

This is a wonderful way to think about writing (and editing).

Just imagine if our writing was scored by translation effectiveness software or a game. It would be fun to learn how to write this way.

Thank you for this post!

Obvious now, but more so after getting the first bill..

Interesting thoughts on the work ( and value ) of translators ( which I can confirm , based on my experience during a 25-year career as a UN interpreter , as well as intermittent translating work ). ^^

Interesting suggestion. People are different. Some want you to just cut to the bottom line, some want all the details. But yes, clarity is important!

Excellente! "Brevity is the soul of wit." Thank you to my HS teacher- Mr. Vozella. Has stuck with me for decades. Truth. :)

Derek - You always leave such good ideas and stuff to think about, this no less.

Tremendous post, Derek. Thank you.
I work with people whose native language is not my own. It is hard to avoid idioms, but you have to work from what they mean in the original tongue. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" has no meaning when translated literally into almost every other language, so you have to state the meaning clearly in words that can travel. Maybe, "You can provide an opportunity, but you can only inspire action".

One of my favourite jokes, a lesson in brevity from Steve Martin:

"Pretentious? Moi??"

Interesting concept, but I believe good writing is a gift. The art of using minimal words that move the heart or mind is distributed to some while the art of organization to others.

"They" always say, "less is more." Does this have anything to do with the pace in which we live or attention span or the reader? If there's not an attention grabber in the first few words or phrase...forget about it! I've always been so "wordsy" - and when I transcribed and edited my husbands memoirs in "The Last Train Out" about being a refugee and displaced person in Yugoslavia and Germany during WWII, I found out in a hurry about the price of book publishing... number of words, etc.etc. It was an eye opener. I'm still wordsy (probably because I'm a fast typist! ha) but did learn a lot about saying more in less words that worked. Elevator speeches and abbreviated descriptive writing works with lots of practice. Great idea...thanks for all your articles. Look forward to them. Put your ego aside and get to writing!!

I write the same blog articles or journal entries in multiple langugages. When I think of the same idea in different languages, it helps me clarify my thesis and cut down the unnecessary words. It's a great way to improve your first langauge! (and writing in general)

Having been a translator for many years I thoroughly agree with this. There were times when I wished the texts I was translating had been written by like-minded folk!

Translator: good suggestion.
I have been a member of CD Baby for several years as a song writer. On the average, I have 3 minutes to make my point and leave a lasting impression. If we all conversed at this level we would have a lot of spare time left over.

Interesting
Paul

Derek. An old Law lecturer userd to deliberately chop 500/1000 words off term assignments. She used to say, if you have point, get to it!

I definitely agree. In my day job, I write content that has to be translated in 10+ languages, usually within 24 hours. This has really made me very much aware of possible ambiguity in my writing, more so because the translators I'm working with are not native English speakers.

Do you want to write clearly and succinctly?
Hire a translator.
Because professional translators charge around 10 cents per word, translating makes you question the value of every sentence.

>>Which is a thing that all good writers should do anyway, irrespective of cost, but I take your point.>Good trick, but the better trick is to know which words are really unnecessary. As a translator I have had to battle with texts which have been ‘edited’ for brevity but which often have a cost in increased ambiguity.>fewer "well-chosen" words>Some translators (especially those working at ‘piece rates’) may not appreciate being asked to exercise judgement on literary quality; there are a lot of bad writers who need translations and it is not our job to teach these people to write.>Correct, but with the proviso of previous paragraph.<<

That's a good quote from Pascall (below). Another way of putting is that white paper makes people read it. It;s not quite the same as shorter sentences but shorter paragraphs certainly produce more white paper and more readers.

I could go on and on about this...

Is this written by the same guy who wrote that brilliant 20 word post about actions speaking louder than words? :)

I don't remember if it was in advertising copywriting, drafting technical reports, or writing for college, but that there was often someone looking over my shoulder saying, "This is great. Now reduce it by a third."

One man called himself the Writing Doctor. The other was my dad.

xoxo, M.

I love this! I've been trying to make my writing more with less. This helps.

Reminds me of the Mark Twain quote: " If I had more time this letter would be shorter"

I had a similar experience when I wrote the first article I ever got paid for. This was in 1976 or so, and I wrote what I thought was a pretty good article--but the editor who hired me for it had imposed a word-count limit, and my piece was more than two and a half times as long. So I rewrote and rewrote and rewrote, trying to find shorter ways of expressing the same thoughts without losing any of them. I succeeded. The result was a really good article that was about 50 words UNDER the required word count. It took me an entire weekend and about eight rewrites (and this was in the days of typewriters, no cut-and-paste). I still think of that as the weekend I learned how to write. So if you don't have someone to impose a word-count on you, hiring a translator is a clever route to the same result.

Makes total sense. American business language and street slang must create havoc for English as a second language speakers here. Depending on your audience , being able to hone down your most important statements to get the message across is a a great skill.

For comic relief, have you used the "see translation" feature on Facebook. Don't bother!!

Very timely Derek. Combining your past with your present I have an interesting issue I'm finding. I've written a song called These Streets Are Holy that addresses the gun violence in Chicago. We quickly realized we needed other language versions and musical interpretations and started with Spanish. Google translate got the title close but then it took native speakers to get it right. But then working with someone doing the lyric translation seems a whole different challenge as now rhyme and meter come into play.
Any words of advise on musical translation?
John

I just applied this principle. I sent a message to a mentor via Instagram (DM) and in the process had to edit the hell out of it to get my point across. I also realised how much of what I had written was just ego and got rid of it.

A fantastic professor, Dr. Gary Hafer of Lycoming College, opened my eyes to the value of writing more clearly. He felt good writing required two stages:

1) Write quickly. Put to paper exactly what comes to mind and outrun judging grammatical mind.

2) Hit print and cover 85% of those words with ink. Destroy any letter not vital to work.


Printing the work (especially in a different font) helps your brain not see it as your own. In the same vain as a translator but without spending $10 per sentence.

It has always fascinated me how people/s from other cultures, who were bred to speak a language other than 'what I speak', could learn 'English'. I was bred to speak 'English' as Language, but I find it difficult still. I wonder about what ideas you may have on Language. While I don't want specific tribes to be lost, I DO want a common language, whatever best describes the world....
I feel an extremely strong pull to connect all beings, even bugs...~michael

This is excellent advice. I write to several people in different countries and I have learned that it is nearly impossible to translate every sentence into a foreign language that emits the same intent as intended when written. It is very easy for the information to be changed or misunderstood by the receiver without a translator. Extremely Important!

...like one wise man said, once upon a time. If ye can't explain it to a 6 year old, ye don't understand it yerself. Not sure who the dude was, he's name was something like Frankenstein or something? Keep your "important" messages "always" clear and simple( ie. banana-good, instead of saying-bananas contain lot of potassium and vit. B6, therefore they are considered to be a perfect addition to our daily diet)Yes, it's primitive but "effective".

Derek, I had to think about this one a while. I am fortunate in my upbringing.
My father's family lived in isolation since about 1650. So I was raised in a home where I listened to English like it was spoken during the time of Shakespeare and Ben Jonson. Some of the words have no present day English translation and can not be found in any dictionaries, like mommack, and expressions like "I snow". I would have to say, some of my father's words have a decidedly old French context. I still have a bit of that olde English twang, or as they say on the Outer Banks of N.C., a brogue. I also listened to a lot of people from different areas of North Carolina way back in the country, and their families were from various sects of England, Ireland, and Scotland. I enjoyed talking like them with my brother as I grew up. I think songwriting has a lot to do with using unusual expressions that have different timbres and lilts. I had to learn technical writing in school for many years, and it is amazing how that discipline also helped me tone down and get my ideas out with as few words as possible and still not lose, sometimes very complicated emotions and situations. English in the mainstream of America can sound very dry and almost like a case language, like German, that is very literal for a different word for every thing, including emotions and movements. I have been told that my accent is so thick, that I am hard to understand. I do hear that my pronunciation of some words are unrecognizable. Sometimes, "people make fun of me". I am not amused. I've only taken some French and German grammar. Not enough to converse. I do know, to be a writer, you have to write. Sometimes when writing a song, I may not use anything for a song but a phrase from one line that I warm up to. It's a process. I like writing. I am not troubled by making mistakes. When I make a mistake, I just a put a line through that word or phrase, then I go on. No problem. Been writing a long time. I've got many, many works deposited at the Library of Congress. I may never use most of them. That's ok. I just wanted a record that I wrote them. Best wishes to others in this journey of ideas. Best wishes to me

Every word must earn its place. This is the rule I apply after working
as an editor at an international business newspaper. The copy had to accessible to an international audience.

"Get rid of half the words on each page, then get rid of half of what’s left."
— Krug’s Third Law of Usability (Steve Krug, Don’t Make Me Think!)

You're right Derek. I write regularly for a regional magazine, which publishes all articles in both Spanish and English. Inevitably the Spanish proofs reveal ideas, expressions or (worse) concepts I did not make perfectly clear. It always reminds me to drop my assumptions that the reader is in the know and that I will do a better job honoring them and my ideas by being clear and concise.

good idea ☺

This reminds me about some great advice on CV writing, although I can't remember where I read it (might have been 4 hour work week).

A similar principle to this, it was to edit your CV as if you were taking out Ad space in a newspaper, when you think of every word costing $10 then you quickly jettison the superfluous rubbish.

There is another group of people that can be great at helping you become a better writer. Lawyers. I came upon this realization the first time I had to work with lawyers on a huge contract at work and was routinely impressed by their clarity of thought and precision in wording. Maybe it was just the lawyers I was working with, but I believe their training helps to develop this skill.

Have a lawyer friend review your writing and see what happens...

Hi Derek,

The translation of the sentence "Because each sentence cost $10, and each paragraph cost $50, I learned to chop every unnecessary word.' into French language uses present tense for the first two verbs. I would assume you meant the past.

Cheers!
Good catch. Thank you! — Derek

That's a brilliant idea, Derek. I'd never thought about it that way before. It might help me write more concise and less wordy blogs in future. I love Miguel Hernandez's idea of using Google translate as a poor man's translator.

Very good. Along the same lines, word and phrase re-use can bring additional benefits (particularly in technical writing / documentation or in user interfaces).

Many translators these days use "phrase memories" to further reduce costs of translation. A phrase translated once, is on recurrences automatically translated (and just verified) at a fraction of the cost of the original translation.

Particularly useful when submitting the same collection of words and phrases for re-translation after editing / feature additions and changes.

While changing phrases and mixing up your language in some cases is important to provide for a more engaging reading experience, in many cases it can help recognition and understanding if common concepts always are described in the same way.

Derek: This article is genuine piece of wisdom and I am going to start applying it immediately. Thanks!

Hi Derek.

An aside, really: for a brief time I decided to casually experiment around with online translators because I was curious about languages and thought structure. One of these diversions of mine was to type out the thought in English and then automatically translate it into another language and then translate it back to English again; if it didn’t come back to the same exact English sentence I would presume there was some degree of idiomatic ambiguity in the original text and edit it accordingly until I could flip the sentences back and forth between the languages without any shifts. It was just a game, really, but it was also essentially a thought experiment. To my mind most of the sentences grew more and more utilitarian and ugly but oddly some had to evolve instead into strangely elliptical phrases in order to achieve that lack of ambiguity. Obviously I don’t recommend this as anything other than a diversion, definitely not a way to communicate with another human being. I’ve always been fascinated by the idea of language as sort of an individual’s operating system.

I also played around with serial translations without any editing along the way just because I found it amusing. I recall typing in “I’m sorry but the dog ate my homework” and subjecting it to computer translation through five or six languages without editing; when I finally translated it back into English it had morphed into “I regret that I ate my house dog” … an entirely different proposition. ☺

Great article coming from the perspective of a polyglot. I'm having trouble viewing your Arabic translation. The rest work fine but Arabic just gives me the English version.

Hi Derek!!!

Okay. At the end, you state 'share your suggestions'. I think it is more self editing than a translator who would best help you and those you are attempting to reach in this message. To wit:

Learn to self edit as translators charge around 10 cents per word. Self editing helps you question the value of every sentence at no additional charge. Long ago, I had my old site translated into ten languages. As each sentence cost $10 and paragraph $50, I learned to chop every unnecessary word. If you can communicate the same idea with fewer words, it’s more likely to be read and understood.

A sentence easier to edit is also easier to understand. Ask yourself how your original could be more succinct. Proof read it once and then again. Through practice you will not only become quite adept at minimizing how many words you are using but possibly even a chance of offering your editing service for a negotiable and fair amount later. A win - win in any situation!

Unsure the first few times how good or to the point your content is in the first place? Ask a friend or family how it looks. As I already said, through time the necessity asking for any kind of help will vanish. It works for me!

Curtis Sulaski

Unfortunately, it, sometimes, takes a lot of words to get a point across. Particularly in the realm of public articles where both the educated and NOT so educated people read them. It's necessary to dumb it down so that everyone gets a chance to understand the content, and THAT'S when the words begin to pile up. Now, I'm no expert either, but this is my thought on the subject, whatever it's worth.

I personally, have a lot of trouble editing my essays or articles. I'm always afraid there is someone out there who won't know what I'm taking about.

I was just editing some presentation notes that will be translated into Chinese and communicating with my translator TODAY before I read this. Funny! I ended up chopping those notes way down, mostly because I didn't want to overwhelm her and because, in general, I think most of us say something and then re-day it two more ways in the same paragraph. Thanks for this recommendation.

I like this idea very much because different languages often have some concepts/schools of thought that may not quite be on par with other ones or translate through, but learning what those are just might change your perspective. So yea--what you and others have already stated. Lol

You are damn right! I work for a research institute and I often review manuscripts submitted for publication. Almost all my reviews end with 'language needs thorough revision' or something like that.
Years ago my English teacher told me: 'If you think in Polish [btw this is my mother tongue] and translate it into English, it will never be OK.'
And, of course, plain economy will force you to avoid unnecessary wordiness...

Not sure if I'm ready for a Translator yet? But will try & say like you say,as little as possible & make all the words count? Like they say in the Music business: "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid) which really applies to all things in life right? Lesson Learned & re-reminded! Cheers! Jose

I highly recommend Strunk and White's "The Elements of Style". While some of the information in this book is outdated, it still covers really important fundamental writing tips like using active vs. passive tense and how to write concisely.

I actually use a website to help me make my writing more concise.
It *might* be a crutch, but it has helped trim the word count.
http://www.hemingwayapp.com/

(also, it shouts out Hemingway, what's not to love?)

Doesn't matter if you're an expert or not Derek, your honest experience is valuable to us.

Hmm, interesting... writing poetry is a different way of being succinct, yet in an ever expanding form.

I would go even one step further and get a translator that is native to your area of expertise. I remember traveling and had a translator who was very helpful but felt like we were asking the same questions. Then I traveled with a translator who was local to the area and it was like a ninja with special requests and asking for special ingredients and requests.

I agree with Debra, commenter #176, that Strunk and White's book is classic, one to be re-read yearly.

In the working world, a non-writer could teach herself by using a very thin book called "Ten Lessons in Clarity and Grace" by Joseph Williams. It was my only textbook for my college written rhetoric class. (It is reviewed on Amazon)

The word "grace" is because someday you want to get beyond conciseness. Think of conciseness as being like dribbling in basketball. "You spend your first year learning to dribble, then all your other years learning when to dribble."

The spanish translation of this article seems too formal. It´s different from the english text that is more friendly. I think the translator also has to try to translate the author style
Thank you for the feedback! — Derek

This is great! Hiring and listening to a translator allows your words to be understood universally. Your statements and ideas may be reached without extra time and wording within your text. Your audience will become larger and holding their attention will become a lesser challenge. This can allow you to reach and capture different demographics.

Hi Derek! As always, love your stuff! I have been doing exactly this on my latest books. I call them Tiny Books on Big Ideas. :) I trim, edit, and sometimes take whole sentences out until I have distilled my idea down to the shortest form -- deep thoughts in less words!

Take care!

Brevity is king! That's why I love quotes - they're perfectly pithy

My editor (film) has a saying "Shorter equals gooder!" And i think it's so true. But it takes time to find the most simple essence of a paragraph or a scene in a film. Like Mark Twain said, “I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”

It's definitely worth it though.

Hi Derek,

I wrote an article related to this, which I thought you might enjoy. It's called 'How a Blind Man Improved Written Advice for Everyone'

https://betterhumans.coach.me/how-a-blind-man-improved-written-advice-for-everyone-d447340f0f19

Gavin

An original idea! However, if your goal is simply to write more concisely and plainly, you need not spend any money. The Hemingway app is free and will mercilessly rip your writing to shreds, showing you any wordy, confusing, or passive voice sentences. Using a combination of Hemingway, Grammarly, and Word's spelling and grammar checker, you can improve your writing enormously.

Is it not a mistake in your text??? Here :"10 cents per word... Because each sentence cost $10"
10¢ per word = $1 per sentence… × 10 languages — Derek

Hire a Translator

...or work doing Tech Support for an international company. I learned that syntax is the biggest enemy of communication, both written and oral. Most people who speak English as a second language learned English in a classroom and are only really fluent with the most basic English syntax. Subtleties of expression gained through sophisticated manipulation of the rules of the language are appropriate if you happen to be John Fowles or Dickens, but to really be understood in a tactical, multiple-language situation it's essential to stick to the old Dick, Jane and Sally sentence structure (there's a reason the Military requires it for all live-action interactions). Staying away from Jane Austen sentences and other slang will also make your communications with other 1st-language English speakers more precise and harder to garble when repeated outside the original exchange, and if done gracefully it's not the least bit demeaning or patronizing.

One other aspect that's worth considering is that when non-1st-language English speakers find themselves in water deeper than their schooling prepared them for they will take a best guess, usually by using English words but arranging them in accordance with their own native language syntax. This is especially confusing in situations where the misplacement of a modifier radically alters the intended meaning. This is where the craft of Translation can bring the most value -- a couple of examples: In Spanish Nova means "won't go" (no va). Chevy didn't know this when they tried to sell the Nova in Mexico. And then there's Pepsi's legendary language fail, when they converted their slogan "Come Alive! You're in the Pepsi Generation" into a Taiwanese phrase that basically meant "Pepsi will bring your ancestors back from the dead"

But I digress. Wait, no I don't.

This lane ends,
Robert

I Agree that communication should be kept short and simple

Like stories?

The concept is akin (related) to "blue penciling" a verb from the traditional colour of an editor's pencil. At my local annual weekend writers convention (for writers/readers/publishers) there will be several "blue pencil sessions," with limited seating, where writers can take their pages to have words crossed out. (And re-arranged)

I never go myself, because I have picked up the skill down the years, perhaps from being edited. A good way to learn is from sitting beside an editor, or fellow writer, as he blue pencils.

When I took a one year certificate program in writing I announced to my classmates that if anyone wanted to make a double spaced copy of their work, then I would be happy to edit "right on the copy" in their presence. This would help me learn, too.

Only once classmate ever did so. Frequently. A few years later, accidentally, during a conversation with a mutual friend, I learned that it had hurt her feelings to be helped. After graduation she became a well known local writer and one day, at her birthday party, autographed a magazine to me saying, "to my favourite editor."

In that issue was her latest funny news feature, a piece better than I could write. I told her so. "Really?"
"Yes. I could first write my usual Sean piece (with stiff long sentences, and overly concise) to get that out of my system, and then try to write it being funny, but it would still not be as good."

"That is the best birthday present I could have received."

I see at # 189 where Robert Poulk talks of stupid American names for cars. Another unfortunate name, or so I am told, was matador, which means "Killer." Not good for places with deadly horn-honking traffic.

Sometimes the car companies back pedal trying to recover. Had you been in Canada some years back you might have seen a TV commercial of a giant lemon on four wheels, with forlorn windshield wipers, trapped in a snowstorm: "You don't want to be driving a "lemon."" (US-Canadian slang word for a "no-good car") They advised buying a citroen for good driving.

This was after the car company had already come out with the Citroen, which Canadian English speakers all knew was French for lemon! ... (Canada has bilingual food packaging)