What must Apple include in a new Mac Pro that we can’t live without? | MacRumors...
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MP 7,1 What must Apple include in a new Mac Pro that we can’t live without?
what do you feel like it should have and why? Apple silicon version
For me, pcie slots are still essential
Unless the GPU is at least on the level of a w6800x Duo, some type of MPX support too
Ram I’m ok with a max well under the fire t Mac pro, but still 256 at least would be nice
The m1 MacBook Pro certainly indicates a positive direction that could reveal some stellar performance in a Big Mac Pro offering.
What do you guys think?
Boil
macrumors 68000
Oct 23, 2018
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1,167
I would expect WWDC this year at the earliest, and most likely a preview with actual availability at the end of 2022...We are all excited and nervous about the next Mac Pro- could have some announcement soon.
Apple could offer two to four PCIe slots, mainly for the audio folks; they could also offer a singular PCIe Gen4 (maybe even Gen5) x16 edge connector, for use with an optional PCIe expansion chassis...what do you feel like it should have and why? Apple silicon version
For me, pcie slots are still essential
Apple silicon GPUs are part of the SoCs now, no more discrete GPUs, so no need for MPX slots...Unless the GPU is at least on the level of a w6800x Duo, some type of MPX support too
I am hoping Apple will be the first with LPDDR5X:Ram I’m ok with a max well under the fire t Mac pro, but still 256 at least would be nice
- 64GB per chip maximum density
- pin-compatible with LPDDR5
- 33% faster
- 20% less power usage
- Single SoC = 256GB RAM / 500GB/s UMA
- Dual SoC = 512GB RAM / 1TB/s UMA
- Quad SoC = 1TB RAM / 2TB/s UMA
I look forward to the new ASi Mac Pro Cube...!What do you guys think?
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DrEGPU
macrumors regular
Apr 17, 2020
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Additional internal storage options.
Upgradeable Ram (having options of Soc ram 64/128/256 etc is just too expensive at time of purchase).
MacPro NEEDS to be upgradeable over time, otherwise it's just a Mac Mini with go faster stripes.
Pakaku
macrumors 68030
Aug 29, 2009
2,588
3,129
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If they can double the current MBP M1 Max speeds [CPU + GPU], it will be more than enough for my studio for the next 3 years.
GPU speed is the important factor to me over anything else.
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Analog Kid
macrumors 604
Mar 4, 2003
6,624
6,305
This would make me really happy as well. I loved the 2013 trashcan. It doesn’t need the be upgradable for me in any way— I’d spec it for my needs and use it for years before replacing the whole system (except the display). Thunderbolt gives me the high bandwidth expansion I‘d want.I have a gut feeling that this Mac Pro is going to be the cube resurrected.
Give me a good compute appliance without the space and cost sacrifice of empty slots.
Grumply
macrumors 6502
Feb 24, 2017
PCI slots for adding onboard NVME storage cards, and Video I/O cards are the features I'd consider most important.
If they return to the non-expandiblity and resultant cabling nightmares of the 6,1 trashcan, it would be a horrible step backwards.
jasonmvp
macrumors demi-god
Jun 15, 2015
As we've repeatedly said in this forum, and I think most agree: the SoC's GPU right now isn't the issue. It's what do we do when the next SoC's GPU is significantly more powerful and we have workloads that can take advantage? We can't upgrade, so: we throw the entire Mac Pro out and buy a new one? That's silly and unfortunate and a huge waste of money.The current 32-core GPU on the M1 Max is supposed to have something like 10 Teraflops of processing power - which is very respectible. If they're doubling or quadrupling that processing power for a larger machine, then I'd expect it to offer perfectly competitive performance for most tasks.
I do agree with others that a bank of PCI-E slots is of utmost necessity. Not one or two, but several.
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And also doesn't seem very environmentally sound.....We can't upgrade, so: we throw the entire Mac Pro out and buy a new one? That's silly and unfortunate and a huge waste of money.
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The iMac Pro was a nice package and if Apple refreshed it every three years, it would be a good upgrade path. The old one can be sold or donated for repurposed usage to schools, non-profit organizations, third world countries, or just someone that needs a computer.
An upgradable system like the Mac Pro requires a modular design that needs larger quantity and fabrication of silicon for the PCBs, extra connectors, redundant components compared to a single PCB like the iMac, Mac mini, Macbook. The specialized components are more expensive, like the MPX graphics cards ($6k for a 6900!). Since it is specialized, there is very little use for the components when they are replaced. Very few people have use for the Pro 580 MPX and probably none as second hand.
As someone who have grew up with building towers, "upgradeable" really means changing everything inside leaving the case or the power supply (if is not already near EOL). Even when is time to "upgrade", just end up getting a new case.
At least with PC parts, they are standard and easier to repurpose. But when parts are removed, most of the time they are left as ewaste.
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jasonmvp
macrumors demi-god
Jun 15, 2015
I think most of the premises in your post are incorrect and invalid, but this is the one I'll quote. You believe there is very little use for the replaced parts. That's not been my personal experience thus far. For instance when I upgraded to the W6800X Duo card, I sold my OEM MPX module in nearly no time at all. Folks will buy the previous generation GPUs, specially if you'd specced out an up-rated version.Since it is specialized, there is very little use for the components when they are replaced. Very few people have use for the Pro 580 MPX and probably none as second hand.
As for your PC/tower comment: again very wrong from my own experience. I'd had the same motherboard since summer, 2017(!) I've swapped the CPU once, and the GPUs twice, I think (might be three times). All in the same tower, and all with the same system otherwise.
Modularity is a big deal. And having swapping GPUs in the AS Mac Pro will be very welcome. It just doesn't sound like it'll be possible.
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MisterAndrew
macrumors 68020
I don't think it will have PCIe slots or much of anything that's upgradeable, but it's hard to say. Apple did say the Mac Pro is modular, so maybe it will have some kind of modularity. In any case, it will be a lot more powerful than a Mac mini. I'd welcome another 6,1 style Mac Pro that's small and fits on the desk top, but I think they should keep the big one around too. They could name them something different, but they probably won't (e.g. Mac & Mac Pro, Mac Pro & Mac Pro Classic, Mac Pro Desktop & Mac Pro Tower (and Rack), Mac Pro lite & Mac Pro standard, Mac Pro compact & Mac Pro full size, Mac Pro cube & Mac Pro rectangle, Mac Pro RB (recycle bin) & Mac Pro CG (cheese grater), etc).
I think if they make it modular (which I highly doubt), they will use custom connectors (not PCI-E) and custom MPX modules with AS in them.
OTOH, even the Trashcan (which I loved) had upgradeable RAM and user replaceable parts, so there’s hope
DrEGPU
macrumors regular
Apr 17, 2020
That’s what the modularity is good for. The pcie standard is backwards compatible. You could could put newer components (to a degree) into older machines. This is why the 2010-2012 Mac Pros were great. They could accept advanced GPU’s that still made them relevant for rendering and multi display output. A 2010 Mac Pro can accept many (not all) modern GPU’s which would make it a much better rendering machine than the 2013 trash can. A non-upgradeable Mac Pro successor would be a repeat of that mistake.The upgradability question is really hard to predict. Everything around card-based expansion seems very low likelihood because of the architecture and the economics. I think the main thing I‘d look for is multiple DisplayPort streams to be able to run at least 3 4K/5K/8K monitors without any of the janky reusing of the HDMI port like the Mini did. 6 USB-C Thunderbolt ports with the ability to run 3 DisplayPort displays like the 6,1 would be great.
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I think it is not possible to please both groups of people, those who want AS equivalent of 2019 Mac Pro and those who want modernised 2013 Mac Pro (or return of Mac Cube) with just one model of 2022 Mac Pro, therefore I hope there will be two of them:
- AS equivalent of 2019 Mac Pro with slots, etc.
- small, quiet Mac Pro mini (or Mac mini Pro)
One can dream…
AndreeOnline
macrumors 6502a
Aug 15, 2014
- Small form factor, as in 'baby Mac Pro'.
- Partly locked down, notably in areas users would like it to be modular like CPU+GPU. Apple Silicon is not something you upgrade yourself. No surprises here.
- Modularity for niche functionality: PCIe cards for audio and networking folks, and others.
- great computer and performance for MANY users, but not best in class for ALL users.
- relatively good price/performance compared to 'traditional' Mac Pros, unless YOUR checkbox isn't ticked (some user groups will likely be left out: dual Duo grunt won't be possible)
- modularity focused on being able to configure Mac Pro at purchase or just after. Not meant to be a 'shell' that you can refill every 3 years with new stuff. Just like every other computer they get old and you buy a new one. At least you don't need to throw away your monitor and PCIe cards too.
- just another computer in Apple's lineup. May be a good fit, or may not. Feel free to look at iMac Pro, MacBook Pros, Mac Minis and others....
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Joe The Dragon
macrumors 6502a
Jul 26, 2006
Well config choice is on big thing why even more so in an pro workstation not all work loads need lot's of ram.As someone who have grew up with building towers, "upgradeable" really means changing everything inside leaving the case or the power supply (if is not already near EOL). Even when is time to "upgrade", just end up getting a new case.
also STORAGE needs to be on some kind of card / slot as well and not part of the MB.
People may want to have in the box slower hdd's in some workstion settings as well. Also RAID not raid 0 can be an need as well.
Network cards with differnt ports are an thing in the server / workstation setting.
Also some workloads may need more video and others more CPU. Forcing people to buy an high end video chip just to get an more cpu is bad as well say want 256 GB+ ram need to get the dual high end video chip.
Or they force an top CPU just to get more then 512 GB storage.
Reactions: J.J. Sefton
A compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer was the rationale for the G4 Cube. It was a market failure, because there is no significant market for an expensive, small, minimally upgradable computer.I agree fully in regards of GPU intensive tasks. However, for home or semi-pro recording studios (not based on Pro Tools HDX cards) quiet, powerful Mac Pro with upgradeable CPU and RAM (not necessarily GPU) is perfect. The Trashcan was close to be ideal for this purpose.
A compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer was the rationale for the 2013 Mac Pro. It was a market failure, because there is no significant market for an expensive, small, minimally upgradable computer.
What do we think is going to be the reaction to another compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer?
Reactions: GlynH and MarkC426
Times are changing, people are more environmentally aware, energy footprint is important. There is much higher chance for SFF Mac Pro to be successful now than it was in 2013 or before.
At least in audio production, all prosumer audio interfaces are now USB or TB, not PCI-E.
As I said, there should be two Mac Pros: big Mac for people who need slots and internal expansions and Mac mini Pro, for those who don’t.
Reactions: J.J. Sefton
They didn’t have control of the CPU and GPU?A compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer was the rationale for the G4 Cube. It was a market failure, because there is no significant market for an expensive, small, minimally upgradable computer.
A compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer was the rationale for the 2013 Mac Pro. It was a market failure, because there is no significant market for an expensive, small, minimally upgradable computer.
What do we think is going to be the reaction to another compact, minimally expandable "Pro" computer?
I never bought the cube or 2013 Mac, but will definitely buy this compact pro if the specs are as predicted.
My M1 MBP fully maxed is only about 20% off the speed I would be super happy with. So double speed is more than enough for the next 3 years.
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deconstruct60
macrumors G4
Mar 10, 2009
10,242
2,380
Gurman mentioned that a long time ago, but hasn't said much since those reports. Perhaps because the M-series "big chips" generation more clicks and interest in his rumors. Or perhaps canned it (and just plan to coast on the MP 2019). Or it is caught in the Twilight Zone with the W-3300 workstations from Dell/HP/Lenovo.I wouldn't worry about it, at least this time around. Apple is suppose to be refreshing the Intel Mac Pro at least one more time. So if the Apple Silicon version doesn't have what you want then don't buy it.
It would be strange to wait until it was relatively close to when Xeon SP Gen 4 and Eypc Zen 4 launch to update a Mac Pro on Ice Lake Xeon SP foundation ( W-3300) . Side-by-side probably not going to look so good.
Boil
macrumors 68000
Oct 23, 2018
1,588
1,167
Would be CRAZY if Apple did a final non-ASi update to the 2019 Intel Mac Pro, but with an Epyc Zen 4 CPU & W7000-series MPX GPUs...! ;^pGurman mentioned that a long time ago, but hasn't said much since those reports. Perhaps because the M-series "big chips" generation more clicks and interest in his rumors. Or perhaps canned it (and just plan to coast on the MP 2019). Or it is caught in the Twilight Zone with the W-3300 workstations from Dell/HP/Lenovo.
It would be strange to wait until it was relatively close to when Xeon SP Gen 4 and Eypc Zen 4 launch to update a Mac Pro on Ice Lake Xeon SP foundation ( W-3300) . Side-by-side probably not going to look so good.
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