Introducing CentOS Stream 9
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Introducing CentOS Stream 9
CentOS Stream is a continuous-delivery distribution providing each point-release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). Before a package is formally introduced to CentOS Stream, it undergoes a battery of tests and checks—both automated and manual—to ensure it meets the stringent standards for inclusion in RHEL. Updates posted to Stream are identical to those posted to the unreleased minor version of RHEL. The aim? For CentOS Stream to be as fundamentally stable as RHEL itself.
To achieve this stability, each major release of Stream starts from a stable release of Fedora Linux—In CentOS Stream 9, this begins with Fedora 34, which is the same code base from which RHEL 9 is built. As updated packages pass testing and meet standards for stability, they are pushed into CentOS Stream as well as the nightly build of RHEL.
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Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 4, 2021 19:19 UTC (Sat) by MatejLach (subscriber, #84942) [Link]
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 4, 2021 19:37 UTC (Sat) by pbonzini (✭ supporter ✭, #60935) [Link]
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 4, 2021 20:22 UTC (Sat) by bgpepi (guest, #77064) [Link]
Related, the ELevate project - https://almalinux.org/elevate - may be the solution to this problem, but isn't yet. I *think* that Jack suggested that upgrades between various CentOS Stream versions was a long-term goal.
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 5, 2021 14:16 UTC (Sun) by amacater (subscriber, #790) [Link]
It does seem that the RHEL approach is "Wipe and start again" between major versions - which is fine until you have significant numbers of machines. CentOS Stream is, effectively, a RHEL release - it's just the roll up for the next point release of stable RHEL. Relying on Almalinux as a third party to provide your upgrade mechanism isn't sustainable long-term.
It is hard to keep something upgradeable when it's released every three years or so but RHEL is relatively small in numbers of packages and closely curated - it's not a Debian scale problem - and Debian manages it relatively well as does Ubuntu LTS.
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 5, 2021 18:12 UTC (Sun) by Conan_Kudo (subscriber, #103240) [Link]
The problem is that Red Hat historically never tested for upgrade paths, unlike Fedora does. That said, now that the release cadence is predictable, it's possible to implement policies so the standard system upgrade methods used in Fedora will eventually work on CentOS. I hope they start incorporating upgrade testing into RHEL development soon.
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 5, 2021 20:07 UTC (Sun) by zonker (subscriber, #7867) [Link]
I'm confused by the comment that RHE isn't interested in the feature for RHEL - we've been providing Leapp to upgrade from RHEL 7 to RHEL 8 for some time, see: Upgrading from RHEL 7 to RHEL 8 with Leapp and BOOM. I believe you can also do this using Satellite for multiple systems as well. There's some caveats around which versions are supported (I think it's "latest even numbered" so currently RHEL 8.4 and not RHEL 8.5), but you can do in-place RHEL upgrades. Perhaps I'm missing some nuance here.
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 6, 2021 2:57 UTC (Mon) by magfr (subscriber, #16052) [Link]
I have, since I noticed this, thought it was intentional and that version upgrades was one of the things a paid RH subscription provided.
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 6, 2021 1:04 UTC (Mon) by developer122 (subscriber, #152928) [Link]
I'm not super convinced that Rock and company can do much about this, even with their recompilation, though. If this support does end up getting dropped I'm going to have to start looking elsewhere because it physically won't be possible to run RHEL-derived OSs on my hardware.
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 6, 2021 17:01 UTC (Mon) by bjartur (guest, #67801) [Link]
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 7, 2021 0:21 UTC (Tue) by motk (subscriber, #51120) [Link]
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 7, 2021 11:03 UTC (Tue) by lproven (guest, #110432) [Link]
What does this mean, please?
"K8s" is the standard abbreviation for Kubernetes: https://kubernetes.io/
"K10s" appears to be a model of loudspeaker.
https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_nekkst_k10s.htm
You do not appear to mean either.
As such, I am completely unable to parse your comment.
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 7, 2021 12:36 UTC (Tue) by zdzichu (subscriber, #17118) [Link]
The poster was commenting on changing minimal hardware requirements for RHEL.
Copied from Wikipedia:
The AMD K8 Hammer, also code-named SledgeHammer, is a computer processor microarchitecture designed by AMD as the successor to the AMD K7 Athlon microarchitecture. The K8 was the first implementation of the AMD64 64-bit extension to the x86 instruction set architecture. Launched late 2003
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_K8#Processors
The AMD Family 10h, or K10, is a microprocessor microarchitecture by AMD based on the K8 microarchitecture.[1] Though there were once reports that the K10 had been canceled,[2] the first third-generation Opteron products for servers were launched on September 10, 2007, with the Phenom processors for desktops following and launching on November 11, 2007
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_10h
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 6, 2021 9:16 UTC (Mon) by taladar (subscriber, #68407) [Link]
RHEL already was a giant pain because of its long support times which attracts the kind of customer who is hard to convince that they need to upgrade their software at all and because upgrading past 10 years of changes is harder than upgrading past 3 or 5 years of changes of the world around them.
Now the future of the RHEL ecosystem is so uncertain it is hard to even be confident about any recommendation to give those customers for a system to upgrade to.
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 6, 2021 14:41 UTC (Mon) by smoogen (subscriber, #97) [Link]
> which attracts the kind of customer who is hard to convince that
> they need to upgrade their software at all and because upgrading
> past 10 years of changes is harder than upgrading past 3 or 5
> years of changes of the world around them.
A secret I learned long ago is that there are at least 2 types of customers in this window:
1. The customers who have to do this for whatever reasons and will pay a higher price because they know that work costs a lot.
2. The customers who do this but have no plans to pay for it.
Customers may move from 1 to 2 and 2 to 1 depending on things, as a consultant, you just need to stick strongly to 1. Doesn't matter how much they are family, friends, or old customers.. when a part of a contract moves into 2 are going to break you as a business in time and money quickly. I know of consultants who still support Debian Woody customers, but they make sure they charge at least 4x what they charge for their Jessie and Stretch customers. And I know of myself, who ended up with a lot of 2 customers who I was sure would eventually turn into 1's.. and well never did. [My short lived consultant company should have been called "I'm A Sap"]
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 6, 2021 22:24 UTC (Mon) by ceplm (subscriber, #41334) [Link]
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 7, 2021 16:26 UTC (Tue) by sinuhe (guest, #68638) [Link]
Is it me, or does the language here have an underlying recognition that dropping the post-RHEL CentOS for a pre-RHEL CentOS has lost its enterprise users?
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 7, 2021 18:34 UTC (Tue) by jhhaller (subscriber, #56103) [Link]
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 7, 2021 20:00 UTC (Tue) by ms-tg (subscriber, #89231) [Link]
Totally agree with you that this seems an entirely fair and rational move to align interests throughout the community.
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 9, 2021 11:58 UTC (Thu) by amacater (subscriber, #790) [Link]
That status quo has now gone. Although there is space for community input in each point release of RHEL 8 / RHEL 9 to add features and develop, given the 6 month timescales between point releases and the five/six year lifespan, I can't see it being as vibrant or retaining the CentOS development of SIGs which happened "outside" stable RHEL. That's all gone back upstream to Fedora.
RHEL 9 (and therefore CentOS Stream 9) have already forked from Fedora 34 - by the time that RHEL 9 is released, Fedora 34 will be out of support more or less, so CentOS Stream 9 will remain slightly ahead of but in lockstep with RHEL 9.1, 9.2 etc. until Stream 9 stops). They'll both be maintained largely by the same bunch of folk in Red Hat and be largely indistinguishable except in terms of support and lifecycle. I think the years have taught me that "support" - even paid for enterprise support - largely comes down to who's interested in doing the work. If no-one's interested / it's not commercially viable it's really not going to happen - and a huge amount of stuff lands on a very, very small number of developers.
Introducing CentOS Stream 9
Posted Dec 9, 2021 12:17 UTC (Thu) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link]
What data are you basing this from?
> That status quo has now gone. Although there is space for community input in each point release of RHEL 8 / RHEL 9 to add features and develop, given the 6 month timescales between point releases and the five/six year lifespan, I can't see it being as vibrant or retaining the CentOS development of SIGs which happened "outside" stable RHEL. That's all gone back upstream to Fedora.
This is not the case though. Yes Facebook, Amazon etc now participate in upstream Fedora development but sometimes they need the features more immediately and participation in the development of CentOS via SIGS has also visibly increased.
https://www.techradar.com/news/facebook-and-twitter-want-...
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