Episode 209 - Working When You Hurt - Meta-Cast
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Episode 209
Episode 209 - Working When You Hurt
We've been through a lot these past couple of years. There have likely been some personal struggles for you and/or your family that distracted you from work. How in the world can you wrestle with a life-altering situation at home AND be the employee you aspire to be?
Here's the answer. You can't, and that's OK. Listen in as Bob and Josh share some stories from their personal lives in hopes of helping anyone out there that is struggling. How have you coped with situations like these? Let's discuss.
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Transcript
Bob: 00:00:00
Every once in a while.
Bob: 00:00:01You will give me that look really?
Bob: 00:00:03Yeah.
Bob: 00:00:04I'm not always a Dick.
Bob: 00:00:09Not always.
Bob: 00:00:10I think I always.
Bob: 00:00:13Bob: 00:00:13
Bob: 00:00:14
You gave me a run run for the money.
Josh: 00:00:54Pain, sadness,
Bob: 00:00:56pain suffering.
Bob: 00:00:58Bob: 00:00:59
Josh: 00:00:59
hard.
Josh: 00:01:00Yeah.
Josh: 00:01:01It's even more difficult when you're a team member or you're a leader of a group.
Josh: 00:01:06What do you do?
Josh: 00:01:07How do you handle that?
Josh: 00:01:09How do you fight to be present when you're struggling with situations that
Josh: 00:01:14you can't control like dogs, right?
Josh: 00:01:17Like there's dogs that bark.
Josh: 00:01:19There's nothing you can do about it, but you just gotta roll with it.
Josh: 00:01:22You can't get distracted.
Josh: 00:01:23Bob: 00:01:24
Yeah.
Bob: 00:01:24Well you can, but yeah, but it doesn't help any, so
Josh: 00:01:31a while back, we did an episode about.
Josh: 00:01:36Grief and dealing with things that are happening in the world and
Josh: 00:01:39being supportive of people through all of that, this time we're going
Josh: 00:01:44to dig into like personal things.
Josh: 00:01:47When it's, you there's, challenges at home, or you have a family
Josh: 00:01:51member that's struggling or ill, and you're just distracted.
Josh: 00:01:57There's something more important than work that is splitting your mind in to, I
Josh: 00:02:02don't know what the size of the piece is.
Josh: 00:02:03but it splits your mind in two and it also affects your focus.
Josh: 00:02:06Yeah.
Josh: 00:02:07And how do you, how do you handle that with your teammates?
Josh: 00:02:11When you know, you're not at the top of your game, because you've got another
Josh: 00:02:16thing, you know, like dogs that are, that are pulling at your, your thoughts
Josh: 00:02:22and dreams and all those things.
Josh: 00:02:24So that's the, that's the topic
Bob: 00:02:27for today?
Bob: 00:02:28I mean, I think.
Bob: 00:02:30I don't want to talk about the team dynamics and maybe I'm biased.
Bob: 00:02:34But, I remember I went, I was, I was divorced years ago
Bob: 00:02:39and I was in a leadership.
Bob: 00:02:41I probably had a group of maybe a hundred, you know, 60 to a hundred
Bob: 00:02:46people or something that reported to me.
Bob: 00:02:48So I was in it, there was a lot of people, depending on me
Bob: 00:02:52is the way I thought about it.
Bob: 00:02:53And I was incredibly distracted by that.
Bob: 00:02:56And so I think as a leader, all I'm going to say it's, it's hard for everyone.
Bob: 00:03:02It's I think it's particularly hard for a leader to go through that.
Bob: 00:03:07Because so many people are looking, I think people.
Bob: 00:03:11I'm not anti the team perspective.
Bob: 00:03:13I'm pro the leadership.
Bob: 00:03:14I remember at the time everyone, everyone wanted my a game every
Bob: 00:03:17hour of every day, there was no, you know, even if there was sympathy or
Bob: 00:03:23empathy, it was like I had to bring it.
Bob: 00:03:25There was all this pressure.
Bob: 00:03:26So here I am struggling with something that's really hard.
Bob: 00:03:30And and I felt like I was letting, not just me down or my team, but like a
Bob: 00:03:34large group of people down, et cetera.
Bob: 00:03:36So I think the leadership diner.
Bob: 00:03:38Or it may be a little bit tougher.
Bob: 00:03:40But I'm not saying it's not hard in a team.
Bob: 00:03:42Yeah.
Bob: 00:03:42Maybe the scale, the scale of the dependencies is what
Bob: 00:03:46I'm really talking about.
Bob: 00:03:47Right.
Bob: 00:03:48It could be a team you're building a, you know, a flagship
Bob: 00:03:50product or something like that.
Bob: 00:03:52but the scope of it can be over, you know, oppressive as well.
Josh: 00:03:55Yeah.
Josh: 00:03:55There's, there's all of the pressures as a team member to beat.
Josh: 00:03:59And to help and do all those things.
Josh: 00:04:02But I do agree with the leadership role, there are additional eyes and
Josh: 00:04:07expectations and, you know, a more 360 type view of you gotta be on your game.
Josh: 00:04:17So it does.
Josh: 00:04:19Make it hard, but I, but I do want to make sure that we respect and talk about
Bob: 00:04:24the whole thing.
Bob: 00:04:24Yeah.
Bob: 00:04:25I'm not, that's what I'm saying.
Bob: 00:04:26I'm always bringing is a dimension of maybe the visibility
Bob: 00:04:30or something like that.
Bob: 00:04:31Right.
Bob: 00:04:31Whatever you want to call it.
Bob: 00:04:32Yeah.
Bob: 00:04:33Where do you want to, how do you want to start?
Josh: 00:04:34I've got a very real situation over the past five months, been
Josh: 00:04:39wrestling with a difficulty at home marriage and things like that.
Josh: 00:04:44I'm not going to go into any details because that's none
Josh: 00:04:46of your business listeners.
Josh: 00:04:48But it has me, or it has had me very distracted.
Josh: 00:04:51And I really struggled with myself because I knew I wasn't.
Josh: 00:04:59100% of who I was when I was able to dedicate my full self to a role.
Josh: 00:05:06So there were things that I chose to do that.
Josh: 00:05:12Helped, I guess, I mean, we can talk through the actions that I
Josh: 00:05:15took, but this is something I've been thinking about recording an
Josh: 00:05:20episode on, but like, I wasn't ready.
Josh: 00:05:23And you and I have talked about, this is a thing that we wanted to
Josh: 00:05:26cover, but I just wasn't ready.
Josh: 00:05:27And I'm in a spot now where, it's important to me to talk about this so
Josh: 00:05:32that anybody else that is wrestling with.
Josh: 00:05:35Knows number one, you're not alone.
Josh: 00:05:37Right?
Josh: 00:05:38Number two, it's hard.
Josh: 00:05:39And number three, just some thoughts and ideas of what we've done that
Josh: 00:05:44has helped us in various ways.
Josh: 00:05:45And hopefully just one little bit of those can help.
Josh: 00:05:48Whoever is struggling with anything.
Bob: 00:05:50I mean, it was not weird, but it was we've been, we've been, recording
Bob: 00:05:55the medic cast and, And we've been more infrequent of late or the last
Bob: 00:06:00few months it's been infrequent.
Bob: 00:06:02Right.
Bob: 00:06:02And I didn't know.
Bob: 00:06:05And then when we did record it, I could tell that you were you and
Bob: 00:06:08this isn't a surprise, but you know, we've talked about you were off.
Bob: 00:06:12So I could sense that you were off in some way.
Bob: 00:06:15I didn't know why or what.
Bob: 00:06:18And you didn't share.
Bob: 00:06:19And so I, I, it didn't, it wasn't a big deal.
Bob: 00:06:23It was just, it just felt odd to me.
Bob: 00:06:25It was like, oh, something, you know, we're off.
Bob: 00:06:28Yeah.
Bob: 00:06:28So, but I could sense it, right.
Bob: 00:06:31It was, it was clear, like it was just a different pattern.
Bob: 00:06:35Like we were in a different pattern.
Bob: 00:06:37What.
Bob: 00:06:39I was relieved, not relieved.
Bob: 00:06:41That's the wrong word.
Bob: 00:06:42I just felt different when you disclosed, because I was like,
Bob: 00:06:46oh yeah, like that makes sense.
Bob: 00:06:49Right?
Bob: 00:06:49Like, I didn't know.
Bob: 00:06:51Yeah, it could have been anything.
Bob: 00:06:52It could, well, I actually, I was personalizing it.
Bob: 00:06:55I was like, I pissed him off in some pain.
Bob: 00:06:57Right.
Bob: 00:06:57I was, I was mentally, I was like, you know, I'm normally a jerk was, I was
Bob: 00:07:02overly a jerk one day or something.
Bob: 00:07:04And so when I didn't talk about it, it's, you know, you reflect in different ways.
Bob: 00:07:09So I guess the knowing was good.
Bob: 00:07:12Yeah.
Bob: 00:07:12Right.
Bob: 00:07:13Like knowing.
Bob: 00:07:14Right.
Bob: 00:07:15There's something going on.
Bob: 00:07:16So at least it's normal.
Bob: 00:07:18Right, right.
Bob: 00:07:18I know what's going on.
Bob: 00:07:19And then I can help.
Bob: 00:07:21The other thing is you know, like I want to, I, you know, knowing is like,
Bob: 00:07:28you know, I'm there for you, right.
Bob: 00:07:30So, Like if you, if you made, so not knowing means my behavior won't change.
Bob: 00:07:35Right.
Bob: 00:07:36Right.
Bob: 00:07:36But knowing means, you know, if you gave me a call and you said, I need a beer, or
Bob: 00:07:40I need to talk, I would be there for you.
Bob: 00:07:41Right.
Bob: 00:07:42So I would say the earlier, even though it's uncomfortable, sometimes the earlier
Bob: 00:07:45people let other people know, maybe it's, a few confident few in your circle.
Bob: 00:07:50I think there's good enough.
Bob: 00:07:52And in asking, not asking for help, but letting people know
Bob: 00:07:56that you're struggling, the sooner you can do that, the better the
Bob: 00:08:00universe can respond to you.
Bob: 00:08:01Would you buy that or, yeah, that
Josh: 00:08:04that's, that's the first step that I took at work because I,
Bob: 00:08:09I started to feel
Josh: 00:08:10bad that I was incapable of performing.
Josh: 00:08:15Like I know I can.
Josh: 00:08:16Yeah.
Josh: 00:08:16And I reached the realization that.
Josh: 00:08:20Going through what I've been going through.
Josh: 00:08:23There's no way for me to be 100% work, Josh, like I used to be.
Josh: 00:08:29And I had, I have two trusted folks that I've worked with and I've been open with.
Josh: 00:08:40And one of them was my boss.
Josh: 00:08:42And I just set up some time to talk with these two folks and I share.
Josh: 00:08:46Not a lot of details, but like, Hey, I'm really struggling.
Josh: 00:08:50And I know I'm not.
Josh: 00:08:52100% Josh.
Josh: 00:08:53And I don't know when that will be back.
Josh: 00:08:56So I want you to know if you're detecting anything kind of like Bob was that here's,
Josh: 00:09:01what's going on, I'm working through it.
Josh: 00:09:02I'm getting help, but like, I'm not going to be able to do what I normally do.
Josh: 00:09:08And the response was fantastic.
Josh: 00:09:10Yeah.
Josh: 00:09:12It, it was okay, cool.
Josh: 00:09:14What can we take off of your plate?
Josh: 00:09:16What do we need to do for you?
Josh: 00:09:17Do you need time off whatever it is, we have your back.
Josh: 00:09:20And I got there because I didn't know what the right thing to do for
Josh: 00:09:27a leader was, and I was searching the internet all over the place and
Josh: 00:09:31there wasn't a ton of it, but there was like a LinkedIn learning sessions.
Josh: 00:09:37That was like a three-part series.
Josh: 00:09:39And I watched it and it was a woman who was going through something and
Josh: 00:09:44she talked about, it was the night before a presentation that she was
Josh: 00:09:48supposed to lead and something bad happened and she didn't know what to
Josh: 00:09:51do, but she knew she couldn't do it.
Josh: 00:09:53So she reached out to her team and said, Hey, here's what's going on.
Josh: 00:09:56And they instantly were like, okay, we've got you.
Josh: 00:09:59So, and so is going to do this.
Josh: 00:10:00You do what you need to do and you'll do that.
Josh: 00:10:02So the, the response from.
Josh: 00:10:07People I've shared it with has been amazingly supportive.
Josh: 00:10:13And that's one thing just like Bob said that I would really encourage you to do.
Josh: 00:10:18I started with a small trusted.
Josh: 00:10:20Then I later expanded to a slightly larger trusted group.
Josh: 00:10:25Josh: 00:10:26
Then the last step to me was informing all of my direct reports.
Josh: 00:10:32So all of the people that work directly with me that I shared with
Josh: 00:10:36them, Hey, this is what's going on.
Josh: 00:10:37If you've wondered why Josh has been a little bit off over the summer,
Josh: 00:10:42here's why I'm still working through.
Josh: 00:10:43I'm not there, but I it's important for me that you all know.
Josh: 00:10:47Yeah.
Josh: 00:10:48And the same response.
Bob: 00:10:49Yeah.
Bob: 00:10:51It's it goes back to, I think one of the, you know, we've talked about it a
Bob: 00:10:55lot in the Medicare, so I'm asking for.
Bob: 00:10:58And people struggle to ask for help.
Bob: 00:11:00And then normally when you do ask for help, it's usually well-received right.
Bob: 00:11:03Like you get help.
Bob: 00:11:05It's like, you're, you're showing vulnerability, you're showing your
Bob: 00:11:08genuineness and things like that.
Bob: 00:11:09It doesn't make it easy, particularly when it's a personal challenge.
Bob: 00:11:14It doesn't make it easy to ask for help.
Bob: 00:11:16But if you it's that same hurdle that you have to jump, I think, and,
Bob: 00:11:21and the first one is your truck.
Bob: 00:11:24So you had a small group, so you were trying it.
Bob: 00:11:26If they wouldn't have responded really well, you probably
Bob: 00:11:29wouldn't have gone out to work.
Bob: 00:11:31Right.
Bob: 00:11:31But normally what human beings do, not business colleagues, but human beings.
Bob: 00:11:36Yeah.
Bob: 00:11:37Is they usually have a heart and they usually like surround you.
Bob: 00:11:41They usually care for you.
Bob: 00:11:43So you, I think that's the typical response that you should
Bob: 00:11:46expect that kind of response.
Josh: 00:11:47Right?
Josh: 00:11:49Well, and like the, the, I, I wasn't concerned about it because
Josh: 00:11:52the relationship I've built with my boss, but it was, it could
Josh: 00:11:56have been a scary situation.
Josh: 00:11:59It was during review time.
Josh: 00:12:01And here I am telling my boss like, Hey, that thing you hired me to do, and her
Josh: 00:12:06paying me to do, I can't get it all done.
Josh: 00:12:10And I'm not sure when I'll be able to be back to my normal self.
Josh: 00:12:13I'm going to try and get there as fast as I can.
Josh: 00:12:16I can't make it happen, you know?
Josh: 00:12:18So, so depending on the relationship you have with who you report to, I understand
Josh: 00:12:25that can be a terribly scary moment.
Bob: 00:12:29You know what I mean?
Bob: 00:12:30I'm not going to disagree with you, but you don't, you test your relationship.
Bob: 00:12:37You don't know what your relationship is until you test it.
Bob: 00:12:41You think it's something I, what I'm saying is adversity is the
Bob: 00:12:45true test of a relationship, right?
Bob: 00:12:47And so it's, you may like a medication, or you may think you have
Bob: 00:12:52a crappy relationship with your boss that say, and something comes up.
Bob: 00:12:56I would encourage you to talk to your boss.
Bob: 00:12:59Right?
Bob: 00:12:59You have to, it means it's a good idea.
Bob: 00:13:01Anyway, they're going to know something is different and.
Bob: 00:13:06Don't predetermine how they're going to, they could act like an ass or
Bob: 00:13:11they might absolutely surprise you.
Bob: 00:13:13This, my experience is, you know, the folks that I think may not respond
Bob: 00:13:17well because their business and they're towing the line, they actually, in
Bob: 00:13:21adversity, they respond and they show you their heart and they're there for you.
Bob: 00:13:25So I, what I'm trying to say is I wouldn't have preconceived notions.
Bob: 00:13:29Bob: 00:13:29
You can look at your relationship.
Bob: 00:13:32But extend yourself, take a risk and be prepared to be surprised.
Bob: 00:13:37I've been surprised by people, right?
Bob: 00:13:39I thought, I didn't think they would be cruel, but I didn't think
Bob: 00:13:43they would be very supportive.
Bob: 00:13:44Sometimes the people that I didn't expect it from were the most supportive folks,
Bob: 00:13:49so, and, and just be prepared for that.
Bob: 00:13:53So it's a test of your relationships and you may have a relationship that
Bob: 00:13:57you think is a slam dunk and it may not.
Bob: 00:14:00And you're now learning.
Bob: 00:14:02You're like, you know, it may not be bad, but was like, well, crap, they're
Bob: 00:14:06not being as supportive as I thought.
Bob: 00:14:08Well, you've now realize more about that relationship, right?
Bob: 00:14:11Bob: 00:14:12
So exactly.
Bob: 00:14:15Where else do you want to go?
Josh: 00:14:16One of the things that, so there's two things that I've wrestled.
Josh: 00:14:22Throughout this process.
Josh: 00:14:24Number one, getting to a point where I could accept that there's a, there's a
Josh: 00:14:32limit on what I can realistically give.
Josh: 00:14:34Given the situation.
Josh: 00:14:36I've always been a person that puts things and teams on my back
Josh: 00:14:44and says, we're going to do this.
Josh: 00:14:46we had just been acquired by.
Josh: 00:14:49PE firm out of Europe and there was all of this stuff happening
Josh: 00:14:53and there are all these big events going on throughout the summer.
Josh: 00:14:58And one of the first things that my boss said, because he knows
Josh: 00:15:02me is like, don't feel like you have to put this all on your back.
Josh: 00:15:06Like, I know that's how you work and that's why I hired you, but it's okay
Josh: 00:15:12for you not to have to carry the load.
Josh: 00:15:14We'll figure.
Josh: 00:15:15This out, we'll figure out the right way to get through all of this.
Josh: 00:15:19But he, even though I had gotten to the point where I, where I was comfortable
Josh: 00:15:23saying that and having him recognize that and let me know from his side
Josh: 00:15:28that, that like, Hey, we're good.
Josh: 00:15:30That was another weight off of my shoulders.
Josh: 00:15:32Josh: 00:15:32
And we were doing a ton of like hiring and all these things.
Josh: 00:15:36Right?
Josh: 00:15:36So all those things that I care about deeply, I had to be okay
Josh: 00:15:42for the first time in my career.
Josh: 00:15:44Saying I can't do it all.
Josh: 00:15:46And that was really hard.
Josh: 00:15:48So you, whoever out there is struggling, you're going to have to find a way to get
Josh: 00:15:52yourself to a point where you can accept that reality and just let go, because
Josh: 00:15:57otherwise you're going to crush yourself.
Bob: 00:16:01Why don't?
Bob: 00:16:02I mean, I agree.
Bob: 00:16:03I, I remember when I was in the throws of my divorce and
Bob: 00:16:07this was decades ago, right?
Bob: 00:16:10I, I couldn't focus.
Bob: 00:16:11You said focus earlier.
Bob: 00:16:13I'd be in meetings.
Bob: 00:16:15I mean, I just couldn't help.
Bob: 00:16:16Bob: 00:16:16
Wasn't just the raw work.
Bob: 00:16:18It was the raw work, right?
Bob: 00:16:20Yeah.
Bob: 00:16:20The amount of people, discussions, meetings, it was that the thing that, you
Bob: 00:16:26know, I struggled with the most probably was I couldn't keep my brain on track.
Bob: 00:16:32I couldn't keep my, you know, I'd be in the middle of a critical customer meeting
Bob: 00:16:36and I just would get sad about my kid.
Bob: 00:16:38I mean, when we were getting divorced, my kids were little and then they
Bob: 00:16:41moved away for a while and there was all this stuff going on and it.
Bob: 00:16:45he just ripped my heart out, like every day.
Bob: 00:16:47So I was like, I was worried about stuff.
Bob: 00:16:49So I couldn't, my focus was incredibly and I'm a pretty focused guy and I just
Bob: 00:16:55couldn't focus on things, consistently.
Bob: 00:16:57And I would just, I would find that my mind would be wondering, like,
Bob: 00:17:02Which would, and that was hard for me.
Bob: 00:17:04So it's the raw work, but it's also, I think the focus and giving yourself
Bob: 00:17:08the grace to know that you're, I'm just, I'm going to be less focused.
Bob: 00:17:13Yeah.
Bob: 00:17:13so, so I would say both things it's it's hours or work or projects.
Bob: 00:17:18But realize that whatever you're doing, I, and I'm looking for you to either
Bob: 00:17:21confirm or die, but even let's say I'm even working 10, you know, 10 minutes
Bob: 00:17:25out of every 60 minutes, even then I might only be focusing five minutes
Bob: 00:17:29because I'm like, my mind is elsewhere.
Bob: 00:17:31And that changes over time.
Bob: 00:17:32Yeah.
Bob: 00:17:33But it's like, if you had a parent that was ill, it's not just, you know,
Bob: 00:17:37marriage, it's like illnesses, severe illnesses and things, things that
Bob: 00:17:41just distract you because your heart is touching your heart on your heart.
Josh: 00:17:46Yeah.
Josh: 00:17:47I, I, it was a weird balancing act for me because I found.
Josh: 00:17:56Solace and the distraction that worked provided, I would agree with that.
Josh: 00:18:00So it, so it wasn't that I couldn't work.
Josh: 00:18:03I actually wanted to work because it would be a useful distraction for
Josh: 00:18:07my brain to be able to put all of my mental struggles off to the side.
Josh: 00:18:13Right.
Josh: 00:18:13For a while.
Josh: 00:18:14And just like not think about that.
Josh: 00:18:15And that gave me a breather.
Josh: 00:18:18And I could focus on something, but my capability to focus, like I had that for
Josh: 00:18:25the duration was really where I struggled.
Josh: 00:18:28And, you know, there were times where I couldn't keep that challenge out
Josh: 00:18:34of my brain and I just would like get up and walk away and have to go
Josh: 00:18:38on a walk and do all those things.
Josh: 00:18:40so that, that, it was this weird balancing act of enough work.
Josh: 00:18:45But I knew that too much work just wasn't possible and just get comfortable
Bob: 00:18:50with that.
Bob: 00:18:51I remember back then I write my wife packed up and left or something with the
Bob: 00:18:57kids once and it was over the holidays and we were down for two weeks or something.
Bob: 00:19:03And as you were talking, so work, you know, you, you, you
Bob: 00:19:08can't maybe fully be yourself.
Bob: 00:19:10But work is a safety place to having something to do.
Bob: 00:19:15Like, what I'm talking about is I had nothing to do.
Bob: 00:19:18So going through that and like being by yourself, I remember like being in a
Bob: 00:19:22room by myself, he was freaking terrible.
Bob: 00:19:26Right.
Bob: 00:19:27Like, and I, I was just not doing well with that.
Bob: 00:19:30So work work is something it's that it's sort of a mixed bag.
Bob: 00:19:35You want to be there, but then, you know, you're just not going to
Josh: 00:19:39beat yourself.
Josh: 00:19:39Right?
Josh: 00:19:40Yeah.
Josh: 00:19:40The second thing that I had to get comfortable with was getting help
Josh: 00:19:47outside of work and seeing a therapist.
Josh: 00:19:50And I had never done that before.
Josh: 00:19:53So I had to get over a little bit of a hurdle of whatever stigma
Josh: 00:19:56had in my brain that prevented me from ever going and getting help.
Josh: 00:20:00But getting that help, got me into a spot where.
Josh: 00:20:05My therapist was able to help me and get to a point where she said,
Josh: 00:20:11okay, you're really struggling.
Josh: 00:20:14You're not going to be able to make progress until we get you
Josh: 00:20:19some support with some medicine to where we can help you focus on
Josh: 00:20:24the things that you need to focus.
Josh: 00:20:26So she was like, we can talk for hours and hours and hours, but you're not in
Josh: 00:20:29a mental state to where you can write.
Josh: 00:20:33Make progress.
Josh: 00:20:34So working through that and talking to my doctor about everything that's
Josh: 00:20:37going on, amazingly supportive group, just like I'm sure everybody's doctor
Josh: 00:20:43is because doctors care, you know, like that's what they want to do.
Josh: 00:20:47And so getting over that and accepting that this is the only
Josh: 00:20:51way for me to get out of this.
Josh: 00:20:54Medical support in not only the mental side, but also the physical side of
Josh: 00:21:00just getting that help and then getting medicines in place that could help me
Josh: 00:21:06get closer to who I want to be and how.
Josh: 00:21:09Yeah, operate.
Josh: 00:21:11That was something that I never thought I would do, but doing it was a game changer
Josh: 00:21:16because then I finally was able to start making progress in all of the directions.
Josh: 00:21:20Yeah.
Josh: 00:21:21Both at work and at home and all of the other things.
Bob: 00:21:25I mean, I'm for what it's worth, I'm proud of you for doing that.
Bob: 00:21:28I didn't, I took the old, and I'm not proud of this, or I'm not unplowed
Bob: 00:21:33of it, but, you know, I had the.
Bob: 00:21:36I was getting divorced.
Bob: 00:21:37What, in the eighties or something, I guess, late eighties.
Bob: 00:21:40And I grew up in the, you know, I'm a boomer and men.
Bob: 00:21:45I grew up in that era and my dad, you know, men don't show
Bob: 00:21:48weakness, men don't cry and stuff.
Bob: 00:21:51So I sort of sucked it up where I tried to suck it up and it was, it was awful.
Bob: 00:21:57So I'm glad you did that.
Bob: 00:21:59And it goes back to asking for help, like getting help in different directions.
Bob: 00:22:03Right.
Bob: 00:22:03And yeah.
Bob: 00:22:05And just looking at that as normal, right?
Josh: 00:22:08Yeah.
Josh: 00:22:08It's 100% a different time in the world where mental illness and
Josh: 00:22:13challenges are more at the forefront.
Bob: 00:22:15Gotcha.
Bob: 00:22:16Yeah.
Bob: 00:22:16I'm actually saying, thank God.
Bob: 00:22:17It's the right.
Bob: 00:22:18We're in the right direction.
Bob: 00:22:21The direction wasn't right for me.
Bob: 00:22:23I mean, I've come out of the curve.
Bob: 00:22:24Yeah.
Bob: 00:22:25But, but it was much more painful in the curve than it, than it needed to be.
Bob: 00:22:30For me.
Bob: 00:22:30So, so yeah.
Josh: 00:22:32Yeah.
Josh: 00:22:33So, so if you're struggling, if sleep is a challenge that becomes
Josh: 00:22:37like a snowball thing where it just gets worse and worse and worse.
Josh: 00:22:41Or anxiety, depression, all of those things get help from your doctor,
Josh: 00:22:47from a therapist from whoever's out there that can help, but don't wait.
Josh: 00:22:51Don't like, just get help.
Josh: 00:22:54I've lived through that in the past few months, and that
Josh: 00:22:57was a game changer for me.
Josh: 00:23:00Just to be able to move forward, but also in getting comfortable with
Josh: 00:23:05asking for more help, because I was raised in that time when you were
Josh: 00:23:10going through that, where that was like, you know, a lot of my family.
Josh: 00:23:15Just doesn't go to the doctor.
Josh: 00:23:16Yeah.
Josh: 00:23:17You know, and so that's not a thing, but then I married a person
Josh: 00:23:21who was always going to the doctor and that was the first thing.
Josh: 00:23:24So I ended up finding my way of like, oh, this doctor stuff is really helpful.
Josh: 00:23:30We should, I
Bob: 00:23:30should do more of this.
Bob: 00:23:31Yeah.
Bob: 00:23:32Well, as you were talking about like counseling and stuff, the other thing
Bob: 00:23:36I've learned in, in my coaching is Nora in the coaching was there's
Bob: 00:23:41this thing called normalization.
Bob: 00:23:43When you're going through something, I think you feel like it's just me, right?
Bob: 00:23:48Like you're not, but it's you don't, you feel ostracized or
Bob: 00:23:53you feel like it's just you or everyone else has happier something.
Bob: 00:23:57And I remember coach.
Bob: 00:24:00And with counseling, they have a perspective of it's no, I mean,
Bob: 00:24:05you're going through a tough time, but what what's happening too is normal.
Bob: 00:24:09You are not weird.
Bob: 00:24:10You are not weak.
Bob: 00:24:11We're not this, this is this.
Bob: 00:24:13Yeah.
Bob: 00:24:13This is a really hard thing.
Bob: 00:24:15Yeah.
Bob: 00:24:15And, and that notion of normalization, I think can help, like, like,
Bob: 00:24:20and you can't normalize yourself.
Bob: 00:24:22You need someone to normalize you with you or whatever, right.
Bob: 00:24:26Someone who is in a position of expertise, it really helps to have
Bob: 00:24:30someone walk you through that.
Bob: 00:24:32I'm sure you went through that phase.
Bob: 00:24:33Like yes, you're in pain.
Bob: 00:24:35It's okay.
Bob: 00:24:36That's what that's, what's going on.
Bob: 00:24:38That's a normal part of this process that you're going
Bob: 00:24:40through.
Josh: 00:24:40Yeah.
Josh: 00:24:41I had no concept of how to navigate out of that.
Josh: 00:24:46I felt like I was lost in deep dark woods with no anything.
Josh: 00:24:51And I was just like wandering the earth.
Josh: 00:24:54And I got to a point where I realized I'm not going to be able to get out of
Josh: 00:24:58here unless I get professional help by people that have that do this every day.
Josh: 00:25:04And so that started enabling me to make the progress to where I've
Josh: 00:25:08walked out of those woods and I have a path and all those things.
Josh: 00:25:13So that's a, that's a, that's a tough spot that anybody that's out there.
Josh: 00:25:18You know, I just beg you to ask for help from friends, family, doctors,
Bob: 00:25:26and the challenges.
Bob: 00:25:28And I think it's right.
Bob: 00:25:30I, although I knew something was off with Josh, it's like the
Bob: 00:25:34quintessential if, if someone, if a woman has gained weight, you never
Bob: 00:25:39ever want to ask her if she's pregnant.
Bob: 00:25:41Right.
Bob: 00:25:41It's I'm joking a little bit, right?
Bob: 00:25:43Yeah.
Bob: 00:25:44It's the burden is on her to tell you it was a good step in, even though I,
Bob: 00:25:50I knew something was off with Josh.
Bob: 00:25:53I don't think other people can ask you.
Bob: 00:25:57You have to disclose it's actually really bad.
Bob: 00:26:01Like if you're in a scrum master role or a coaching role or a leadership role
Bob: 00:26:05for you to, you know, ask someone if they're pregnant, again, I'm back to that
Bob: 00:26:09euphemism or Josh you're off your game.
Bob: 00:26:12What's going on.
Bob: 00:26:14It just don't do that.
Bob: 00:26:16Because you don't know what the context is.
Bob: 00:26:18I, I, so I think the advice I'm trying to say is we always, you always have to.
Bob: 00:26:23Like I waited.
Bob: 00:26:25Right.
Bob: 00:26:25I didn't wonder about it that much, but I knew something was going on.
Bob: 00:26:29Right.
Bob: 00:26:30But he didn't, you know, but, but then once Josh disclosed,
Bob: 00:26:34then you get an open door.
Bob: 00:26:36So that's the trigger.
Bob: 00:26:37So if you're, if you're in something like this, don't expect other people,
Bob: 00:26:42you have to step up to disclose Most of the people shouldn't be poking and
Bob: 00:26:46prodding you and for personal details.
Bob: 00:26:49The other thing is you decide how much you expose to other people.
Bob: 00:26:54John Josh was it's your decision, not their decision.
Bob: 00:26:58So, you know, he talked about having a trusted small group.
Bob: 00:27:02You determine who's trusted.
Bob: 00:27:03You determine the relationships, you determine how much you disclose.
Bob: 00:27:08I always lean toward.
Bob: 00:27:10I never disclosed everything.
Bob: 00:27:11It was not anyone else's business.
Bob: 00:27:13It wasn't helpful.
Bob: 00:27:15I disclosed enough so people could know what was going on.
Bob: 00:27:18And I would change that depending on the relationships.
Bob: 00:27:21I'm just talking about the, the dynamics of discovery.
Bob: 00:27:25Yeah.
Bob: 00:27:25It's important.
Bob: 00:27:27So, so it's important if you're running through any issue, you know, family
Bob: 00:27:30issue, life issue health issues.
Bob: 00:27:33You have to, you have to be the one to initiate.
Bob: 00:27:35and then hopefully, gosh, I hope and pray that people respond
Josh: 00:27:40the way you deserve.
Josh: 00:27:41Yeah.
Josh: 00:27:41And you know, some of the things I struggled with in talking
Josh: 00:27:45to people, especially people I cared about deeply, right?
Josh: 00:27:48Like, like Bob is like, man, I don't want to put my problems on Bob.
Josh: 00:27:52Like that's not, I didn't, it was hard because I felt like,
Josh: 00:27:56Hey, here's something heavy.
Josh: 00:27:57I'm carrying here's some of the weight.
Josh: 00:28:00Congrats, Bob, you know, that's a, that's a difficult thing, but ultimately, as
Josh: 00:28:05Bob has talked about people that care and people with heart are happy is
Josh: 00:28:11probably the wrong word, but willing to help in any way that they can
Bob: 00:28:15actually, I think I'll disclose to you.
Bob: 00:28:17It's happy.
Bob: 00:28:19I'm so at the risk of sounding mushy, Ooh, I care about you.
Bob: 00:28:24What I care about you a lot.
Bob: 00:28:27Right.
Bob: 00:28:27And so I'll do anything in my power to help you.
Bob: 00:28:30Cause I care about you.
Bob: 00:28:31and, and people have different levels of caring.
Bob: 00:28:34So I'm getting misty-eyed here, Medi casters, but, but I'm, I'm being sincere.
Bob: 00:28:39So it's I, and I'm not arguing.
Bob: 00:28:42What, what Josh said is what happens.
Bob: 00:28:44You, you consider it.
Bob: 00:28:45I don't want to give the weight, all of that, but you have to decide.
Bob: 00:28:50What I'm talking about as the other side, the people with the relationships, it's
Bob: 00:28:54an honor to help other people and you feel that same way in your teams, right?
Bob: 00:29:00It's just, when it's us, it's hard.
Bob: 00:29:02We don't flip it very well.
Bob: 00:29:04We don't flip.
Bob: 00:29:06Yeah.
Bob: 00:29:06Right.
Bob: 00:29:07We give, but we it's harder to get, it's not just asking for help.
Bob: 00:29:11It's that flip you'll give me help.
Bob: 00:29:13Yeah.
Bob: 00:29:14Right, right.
Bob: 00:29:15You'll do anything.
Bob: 00:29:16Right.
Bob: 00:29:17But when it, when it comes to sort of asking me for help, it's it.
Bob: 00:29:21We don't
Josh: 00:29:21flip very well.
Josh: 00:29:22Yeah.
Josh: 00:29:22Josh: 00:29:23
I am bringing up a things that I wrestled with in hope that we normalize a little
Josh: 00:29:27bit, like, like Bob talked about that.
Josh: 00:29:29If, if you're thinking about these things, yes.
Josh: 00:29:32I thought about all of those same things and created hesitation within me.
Josh: 00:29:37And then there are times where I got to the point of why didn't I do that sooner.
Josh: 00:29:41So if you're wrestling with those, know that that's normal and just push
Josh: 00:29:47through and get help because it, it has been consistently better after I had.
Bob: 00:29:54The other thing, I think I wanna see how you're we're part of helping.
Bob: 00:29:58We're like you become a better, so giving and receiving, right.
Bob: 00:30:07It's it.
Bob: 00:30:08I think it makes it's gonna make you better.
Bob: 00:30:11So, so the next time someone comes to you with a personal issue, it's not
Bob: 00:30:16that you're going to tell them your story, but it's going to make you
Bob: 00:30:18even better than you would have been.
Bob: 00:30:20Yeah.
Bob: 00:30:20Do you know what I'm saying?
Bob: 00:30:21More understanding, more empathetic without a doubt, right?
Bob: 00:30:25It's part of it's part of our life journey.
Bob: 00:30:28If life was full of like, you know, unicorns and fricking daisies, that'd be
Bob: 00:30:33great and money falling from heaven and stuff, but it's not there's adversity.
Bob: 00:30:37There's things going on, but the human condition of good people helping each
Bob: 00:30:42other out is what gets us through that.
Bob: 00:30:45And so the adversity you can come out of adversity.
Bob: 00:30:47I know this don't.
Bob: 00:30:49Downplaying what you're going through, but you can come out of this and not
Bob: 00:30:52only can, we can all be better, like you're going to, you're going to be a
Bob: 00:30:56better, and you're an outstanding leader.
Bob: 00:30:58You're going to be a more empathetic leader after this.
Bob: 00:31:00Yeah.
Bob: 00:31:00If someone comes to you you may have better radar senses going on, et cetera.
Bob: 00:31:04And, and, and don't ignore that.
Bob: 00:31:06I mean, that's, that's part of how we get better in the relationship side of it.
Bob: 00:31:10Yeah.
Bob: 00:31:10Josh: 00:31:10
have replayed a few things in the past couple of years.
Josh: 00:31:14Happened to team members that I now am embarrassed with how I reacted
Josh: 00:31:19and it, it you're 100%, right.
Josh: 00:31:23It, if that happened now versus then my reaction would be different.
Josh: 00:31:29And I love the people on my team and I support them with everything I can, but
Josh: 00:31:34somebody was going through something similar to what I'm going through.
Josh: 00:31:38I think I could have done better and that hurts me, but also it
Josh: 00:31:42gives me fire so that when that happens again, I will do better.
Josh: 00:31:47I will be more effective.
Josh: 00:31:49The other thing that was interesting and my wife brought, brought this up
Josh: 00:31:53is that you basically should never.
Josh: 00:31:59Say to someone, Hey, you've lost weight or gained weight.
Josh: 00:32:02You look great because you don't know what the reason behind that
Josh: 00:32:07weight loss correctly is because.
Josh: 00:32:10I dropped 20 pounds in like a week and a half.
Josh: 00:32:14And it would have been natural and normal for people to someone of my
Josh: 00:32:20size saying, man, you lost some weight.
Josh: 00:32:21You look great, all of that stuff.
Josh: 00:32:23And it's like, well, thanks.
Josh: 00:32:23You know, I'm, I'm like losing my mind here, you know, which is why I can't eat.
Josh: 00:32:28So, but so things like that, that I've learned that helped me be number
Josh: 00:32:34one, a better human, but also a better leader and teammate along the way.
Bob: 00:32:39I, I think we are.
Bob: 00:32:40We did we explored where she went to explore her.
Bob: 00:32:43Yeah, I think so.
Bob: 00:32:44Okay.
Bob: 00:32:45I want to take a moment.
Bob: 00:32:46so this was hard.
Bob: 00:32:47Yeah.
Bob: 00:32:49You're not your personality.
Bob: 00:32:51Isn't one, but medic casters.
Bob: 00:32:52I want to apply it.
Bob: 00:32:53I want you to apply Josh for the courage for him to share
Bob: 00:32:57what he shared with you all.
Bob: 00:32:59And it's not about Josh.
Bob: 00:33:00It's about you.
Bob: 00:33:02It's about learning.
Bob: 00:33:03So I just, I just want to thank you for the courage.
Bob: 00:33:05I honor your courage.
Bob: 00:33:06That's all I wanted to say.
Bob: 00:33:08And medic casters.
Bob: 00:33:09I want you to take this.
Bob: 00:33:11We didn't, I don't think we mentioned agile at all, so, but this was
Bob: 00:33:16probably one of the most important medic casts we've ever done.
Bob: 00:33:19So I want you to take it with that grain of salt and consider it
Bob: 00:33:23and, and think of see how it sees.
Bob: 00:33:26Touches your heart.
Bob: 00:33:28So from beautiful downtown Cary, North Carolina, I'm Bob Galen, and I'm Josh
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