It would be great to see this CPU competing with the likes of AMD and Intel. I could even buy one, why not.

Curiously enough the latest iteration of the great wall of China after their firewall will probably be competing, incompatible architecture.

I wonder how many hacks of AMD, Intel & ARM networks it took the CCP & its economic warfare depts to 'acquire' what they needed to make this...

Thanks to Dumb Trump's trade war. US just lost one of few technology advancements!

The Chinese are exceptionally smart people. East Asian average IQ is supposed to be 105. China produces far more STEM graduates than the West. China's population is 1.4 billion, easily surpassing the West (and the other East Asian nations). Chinese are extremely hard workers.

My prediction is that Chinese chip performance will match AMD, Intel and Apple within the next 5 years.

India is another engineering powerhouse. Like China, they have an enormous population and produce more STEM graduates than the West.

This is what Trump was talking about when he said Make America Great Again. The issue is not making the US into a faded 1950's paper super power that thinks it dominates the world. No, it's about surviving in an increasingly competitive world. We hardly make anything anymore. People need to wake up. And I don't mean 'woke'.

R00sT3R said

I wonder how many hacks of AMD, Intel & ARM networks it took the CCP & its economic warfare depts to 'acquire' what they needed to make this...

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If the Chinese are so stupid, how come so many of the tech leaks come from Chinese sources?

Why is almost everything you buy made in China, Taiwan, or Korea?

East Asians are absolutely crushing us.

R00sT3R said

I wonder how many hacks of AMD, Intel & ARM networks it took the CCP & its economic warfare depts to 'acquire' what they needed to make this...

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Yeah, the first thing I thought of was the craziness of mentioning China and licensing in the same article.

Tantor said

If the Chinese are so stupid, how come so many of the tech leaks come from Chinese sources?

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Because they can't keep their mouths shut. By definition. And that's not linked with intelligence one way or another so is a weird point to make.

Why is almost everything you buy made in China, Taiwan, or Korea?

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Because they pay their workers less than the rest of the world so can compete for labor with a very large supply. The western world at least gives lip service to a living wage and living standards even if the follow through is frequently lacking.

East Asians are absolutely crushing us.

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...with sheer numbers of people. And how do they do that? By importing lots and lots of food because they can't grow enough food to feed those cheap workers. And the food comes from: western countries.

The Chinese are dependent on the western world and in a very basic way: for sustenance.

Tantor said

The Chinese are exceptionally smart people. East Asian average IQ is supposed to be 105. China produces far more STEM graduates than the West. China's population is 1.4 billion, easily surpassing the West (and the other East Asian nations). Chinese are extremely hard workers.

My prediction is that Chinese chip performance will match AMD, Intel and Apple within the next 5 years.

India is another engineering powerhouse. Like China, they have an enormous population and produce more STEM graduates than the West.

This is what Trump was talking about when he said Make America Great Again. The issue is not making the US into a faded 1950's paper super power that thinks it dominates the world. No, it's about surviving in an increasingly competitive world. We hardly make anything anymore. People need to wake up. And I don't mean 'woke'.

Click to expand...

There is no stopping China, that's a fact. They copied everything under the sun from all the others to the point that now they know how to make them themselves and don't need to copy anymore (not more than any other country is spying others, US does it too). I'm not a fan of a lot of things they do there, but I also despise the woke and all the other brainwashing ideologies that are now common in the west.

China will only grow bigger and more powerful, while US and EU will implode and die from the inside, because of those said ideologies and policies/politics and the constant war between everything and anything inside them.

scavengerspc said

Yeah, the first thing I thought of was the craziness of mentioning China and licensing in the same article.

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They built a part of the chip from zero.

I wish I remembered the details, but I remember watching a video showing how far behind China is when it comes to CPU's advancements.

The conclusion was they are not a threat.
I'll try to find the video.

So many 'made in China' jokes that are now useless thanks to this modern American crush on the Chinese.

Easy to forget but I am knocking on in years and do remember.
Was a time when it was either made in Hong Kong or the pricier stuff in Japan.
Was still competitive though.

Kosmoz said

and all the other brainwashing ideologies that are now common in the west.

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Then please feel free to disappear.

Geralt said

They built a part of the chip from zero.

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Which part?

No wonder they used long time outdated Spec CPU 2006 software to avoid any valid comparisons.

scavengerspc said

Then please feel free to disappear.

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"But what makes the 3A5000 special isn’t specs: it’s the novel ISA (instruction set architecture) it uses, called LoongArch. It’s broadly similar to x86 and Arm, according to Loongson, but was built from the ground-up to avoid using foreign licenses."

That was.

paul1122 said

So many 'made in China' jokes that are now useless thanks to this modern American crush on the Chinese.

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No, that changes nothing. China made merchandise is still garbage. Why people ever started buying their crap is beyond me.

cliffordcooley said

No, that changes nothing. China made merchandise is still garbage. Why people ever started buying their crap is beyond me.

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There was a time when the same thing was said about Japanese made stuff, too. For the most part, Japan shaped up. I wonder if China will also shape up at some point.

Thank Richard Nixon for "normalizing" US relations with China. [link]

If I have my history straight, something like this happened with Japan and then Japan paid the US back in Pearl Harbor. I hope something similar does not happen with China. But it might be hard to put the Kraken back in its watery home.

"It doesn't rely on foreign licenses", they just take whatever they want. The way Chinese copy-pasta has always worked.

I just think it would be neat to tinker with one of these.

I'd be all about alternative CPU brands if they're affordably priced and offer competitive performance at their price points.

summermick said

Thanks to Dumb Trump's trade war. US just lost one of few technology advancements!

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China was hacking US companies and government branches back when Clinton was President. Trump was an ***** but had nothing to do with China's motivations to steal US information. [link]

Geralt said

It would be great to see this CPU competing with the likes of AMD and Intel. I could even buy one, why not.

Click to expand...

Tantor said

The Chinese are exceptionally smart people. East Asian average IQ is supposed to be 105. China produces far more STEM graduates than the West. China's population is 1.4 billion, easily surpassing the West (and the other East Asian nations). Chinese are extremely hard workers.

My prediction is that Chinese chip performance will match AMD, Intel and Apple within the next 5 years.

India is another engineering powerhouse. Like China, they have an enormous population and produce more STEM graduates than the West.

This is what Trump was talking about when he said Make America Great Again. The issue is not making the US into a faded 1950's paper super power that thinks it dominates the world. No, it's about surviving in an increasingly competitive world. We hardly make anything anymore. People need to wake up. And I don't mean 'woke'.

Click to expand...

Actually you are only half right. You may have interpreted what Trump said about survival in your own words but was not his agenda. He was about the 50s paper superpower. He basically wanted to bottle us up and cut everybody else off at the knees when it comes to technology. Ideally if he could completely cut off foreign imports, or make Imports ridiculously expensive for us, we then will achieve total independence from the rest of the world. On top of that if he could cut everyone else off at the knees with technology his thinking would be that all countries would completely depend on us for everything.
These are not my own words. He wanted to control technology like we control nuclear production. These are words from former Trump aides who regret being a part of his cult.

And as most of you have found out. Once trump started playing with fire with the trade war and banning Huawei, China decided to say screw the US we will make our own instead of us watching China to fall to pieces and beg us for forgiveness like Trump was hoping. Even if we completely drop all tariffs against China they still are continuing on their mission to drop their dependence on US technology. Trump set that train in motion and that's not going to stop anytime soon. China will eventually not need us for anything anymore.

Ideally if Trump was following what you have stated he would have seen that we seriously have a lack of engineering graduates and engineering programs available in many schools at the start of middle school and up. He would have worked with schools to create programs that allowed everyone of equal opportunity to get into engineering. He would also promote Engineering in the same fashion as we already promote people joining the military, with a handful of benefits because you are going to use that education to contribute to our country and help us to reinnovate.
He would also work with schools to help improving the way math and science are taught.
You think this is too extreme? Many developing and third world countries are using this method so that way they can have graduates wanting to become engineers and contributing to the growth of their country. I really can't say the same about this country. Currently engineering academies, programs, and colleges of many states are Out Of Reach for many hopeful students because the tuition is incredibly expensive, also if they barely made it through High School they will easily flunk out of these colleges.
Look at how our education in math, science, Electronics, software development, programming, in other technology areas compared with the rest of the world. I have to say as a first world country I'm ashamed and appalled in our educational ranking in those subjects.
If I'm wrong how come many of the software developers in our country are from India and China. I worked at many large companies like such and they do get paid way more than me so the excuse for cheap labor goes out the window. I've talked with many of the managers of these software developing teams and they express their frustration with the shortage of people who really know their stuff and trying to weed through all the bullshitters. Unfortunately a lot of the bullshitters happen to be mostly American and European. These managers also don't want to hire somebody and teach them how to do coding. They need someone who can hit the ground running and fast.

Without a handful of Engineers who are not immigrants from India or China our country would be screwed as there's no way we could keep up. The only thing we have is our military. Maybe it's time to elect a president who understands this deficit and is going to fix this without starting trade wars or banning imports regardless which edge of the political fence you sit on.

cliffordcooley said

No, that changes nothing. China made merchandise is still garbage. Why people ever started buying their crap is beyond me.

Click to expand...

Sounds like you have been living under the rock as a majority of our products in this country are from China. Chinese products has a mixed bag. They aim to be what Japan used to be in the eighties and then some

I know people here complain about "they took our jobs"
But if you want to be a powerhouse - you need young vibrant people - The US had the ability to suck up a lot of world wide talent - with special visas etc .
London and NY have used lots and lots of imported talent for centuries - London for much longer .
Cut those sources of at your peril ,
The advantage of say India , Vietnam is large youth populations .
MS, Apple, Facebook etc all started by very young people

We may have great ideas in our forties and fifties - but do we want to spend 100 hours plus in the moment - when we could be at a cabin on the lake with the kids laughing doing bombs off the quay, the BBQ sizzling and a cool beer in hand and more in chiller blowing BS to each other?

Geralt said

"But what makes the 3A5000 special isn’t specs: it’s the novel ISA (instruction set architecture) it uses, called LoongArch. It’s broadly similar to x86 and Arm, according to Loongson, but was built from the ground-up to avoid using foreign licenses."

That was.

Click to expand...

Oh you bought that? My bad.

seeprime said

China was hacking US companies and government branches back when Clinton was President. Trump was an ***** but had nothing to do with China's motivations to steal US information. [link]

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Ok, I am having trouble equating a bunch of young hackers planting anti NATO messages on websites in early 1999 and Government sponsored cyberattacks and theft of Intellectual Properties today.

Honestly this is interesting and possibly is a good thing even outside China. Not excited for others like Zhochin or however the **** you spell those x86 Chinese CPUs. But Longsoon spunded very familiar and I realized they're the company that made the CPU for the Yemote Leeloong that Richard Stallman used.

It'd be nice if western hardware manufacturers would make pcs with these Longsoon CPUs if they, like their distant predecessors, are able to run under free software only. Might be a viable alternative to ancient *** Intel Core 2s and AMD Piledriver CPUs. Forget the stupid nationalist wars when these CPUs could be used as a way to avoid Intel ME and so on.

veLa said

I just think it would be neat to tinker with one of these.

I'd be all about alternative CPU brands if they're affordably priced and offer competitive performance at their price points.

Click to expand...

I hope these don't need any nonfree software. Longsoon made the CPUs for the Yemote Leeloong. Yeah, that laptop a certain pervy but influential hacker used.

scavengerspc said

Oh you bought that? My bad.

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I don't see why China cannot build something from zero. We are not speaking of some God-forsaken African country, but about a superpower. I understand why Americans and their eternal minions (British?) are against China as an emerging superpower, but they should be more realistic: China is very powerful right now and will become more powerful in the foreseeable future. There is no way for anybody to stop that.

Geralt said

I don't see why China cannot build something from zero. We are not speaking of some God-forsaken African country, but about a superpower. I understand why Americans and their eternal minions (British?) are against China as an emerging superpower, but they should be more realistic: China is very powerful right now and will become more powerful in the foreseeable future. There is no way for anybody to stop that.

Click to expand...

I agree the chinese have the technical capability to build many innovative products, though understandably they have used espionage to accelerate that capability as people above have pointed out (Most nations use espionage in some way to further their own interests and I have no doubt the US will increase its activities to steal technology from china as china develops new capabilities in areas like quantum computing, defence technology, AI etc).

However I would argue that based on its capacity for global military power projection (very limited) and its soft diplomatic power projection (limited) China is not yet a superpower by the definitions most people use, though it may become one in the coming decades. The US remains the world’s most powerful and influential nation by quite some margin.

If China does not become a superpower it will most likely be due to its own decisions rather than the actions of an external party, their decisions have led to very challenging demographic conditions over the next 30 years (rapidly aging population), poor investment allocation (residential real estate rather than productivity improvements) and if they aren’t bluffing a devastating conflict with the western world if they invade Taiwan (I think its unlikely they will invade Taiwan, however doing so would be a disaster for them economically and politically, if that got them into a hot conflict with a US backed western alliance (unknown if it would) they would be basically finished).

R00sT3R said

I wonder how many hacks of AMD, Intel & ARM networks it took the CCP & its economic warfare depts to 'acquire' what they needed to make this...

Click to expand...

So what are you implying here? That only the West can have innovation and the rest of the world aren't smart enough to come up with their own chip designs and will only resort to stealing and cheating? Get over yourself

Kevin2021 said

Sounds like you have been living under the rock as a majority of our products in this country are from China.

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Duh! How do you think I know their products are garbage.

Geralt said

I don't see why China cannot build something from zero.

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Don't get me wrong, I agree with you there. But I don't for one second believe that they can right now, or that they did it with Loongson.

Geralt said

I understand why Americans and their eternal minions (British?) are against China

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No you don't. In fact it looks like you don't have even basic knowledge of the subject.

Geralt said

China is very powerful right now and will become more powerful in the foreseeable future

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It seems as though they are better at projecting power than actually proving it.

skarnwolf said

So what are you implying here? That only the West can have innovation and the rest of the world aren't smart enough to come up with their own chip designs

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No, just China for the most part, and that is built on decades of solid history.
I hope that helps ease your paranoia.

Tantor said

India is another engineering powerhouse. Like China, they have an enormous population and produce more STEM graduates than the West.

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Sorry, India's IQ is only 86. That's why the US doesn't consider India a threat to their technological dominance and hegemony. But because of India's enormous population, they really can produce lots of STEM graduates

scavengerspc said

It seems as though they are better at projecting power than actually proving it.

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I get what you are trying to say, but its a bit confusing because the term projecting power usually refers to being able to apply military force far from your borders…something China has almost no capacity to do at present.

Austinturner said

I get what you are trying to say, but its a bit confusing because the term projecting power usually refers to being able to apply military force far from your borders…something China has almost no capacity to do at present.

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You're right. What I meant is that their show of force is way more than what they are capable of actually pull off. Much the same as Russia, Iran and North Korea. Remember the dummy parade tanks?

scavengerspc said

You're right. What I meant is that their show of force is way more than what they are capable of actually pull off. Much the same as Russia, Iran and North Korea. Remember the dummy parade tanks?

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The appearance of strength perhaps? But don’t confuse lack of power projection capability with lack of defensive strength. No nation on earth could invade and occupy modern china.

The main reason a US lead coalition could defend a neighbour from chinese aggression is that any serious strike on US capital ships or airbases is suicide because it would result in a total war scenario and the US would almost certainly deploy at least tactical nuclear weapons in a total war scenario otherwise its nuclear deterrent becomes meaningless.

Austinturner said

No nation on earth could invade and occupy modern china.

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No nation wants that amount of bloodshed but it is not impossible.

Phoronix and their benchmark stuff give it a very different view though

[link]

If you look at some of those results, there's plenty of really bad ones where it end ups competing with Phenom/Bulldozer CPUs. This is despite it apparently being made out of 12nm.

cliffordcooley said

No nation wants that amount of bloodshed but it is not impossible.

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Nope completely impossible. China has by far the largest manufacturing base in the world and 1.4 billion people. They could easily raise and arm 10+ million conscripts in short order if they needed to defend their nation and on top of that they have a credible nuclear deterrent for defensive purposes. China doesn’t need to worry about external threats, only internal discontent.

Austinturner said

Nope completely impossible.

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I think you are wrong. But lets hope we never find out.

cliffordcooley said

I think you are wrong. But lets hope we never find out.

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Yeah we can certainly agree on that. And we are so far off topic its the wrong place to talk about possible scenarios!

RoundDuckKira said

Honestly this is interesting and.. I realized they're the company that made the CPU for the Yemote Leeloong that Richard Stallman used.

It'd be nice if western hardware manufacturers would make pcs with these Longsoon CPUs... to avoid Intel ME and so on.

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TL, DR
Scientists can make it, they have super computers and, mostly, old ideas from decades ago should not be a problem. Its said that once an idea and its solution is developed, is not a matter of when, but who gets there faster, to get that patent, etc.

It's interesting because when a bunch of smart people get together on a matter, they brainstorm a solution pretty fast, and usually at a greater magnitude than the problem itself.

So is not a matter of if they can do it, if they can realize this project without failure going forward, its about support from people who are not biased on either side, ambassadors of innovative ideas on the front where liberty defeats necessity and urgency.

I think I read somewhere, but super elite academics do know english basically, so the language barrier is not there between software and hardware, so these relations between developers and different oems might take off.

Maybe we will have a future where ARM is equal to x86 and is not implemented with capital and market spread, but with necessity to fill every niche.

IMO, western CPU companies are in jeopardy with news like these, and we will see how Asian academic culture would develop this for the masses, and if the world does need very, very affordable CPU's; what outcome would that have, not only in Asian countries and co.

Austinturner said

Nope completely impossible. China has by far the largest manufacturing base in the world and 1.4 billion people

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And we are very aware of that, I can assure you. Those would be gone way before any actual ground troop movement.

But don't think I am pro war with anyone because I'm not.
But it is far from impossible.

scavengerspc said

And we are very aware of that, I can assure you. Those would be gone way before any actual ground troop movement.

But don't think I am pro war with anyone because I'm not.
But it is far from impossible.

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As I said to Clifford we can’t really debate it all out on this thread, we all hope it never comes to a war, but I’m confident land invasion and occupation of China is not achievable for Russia, India or the United States given the constraints of geography, logistics and the ability of China to manufacture millions weapons, vehicles and supplies by repurposing hundreds of thousands of factories already in place all across the nation plus a small but credible nuclear triad.

What genius was it the thought creating a trade war and restricting access to technology with the country that was the world's largest economy for thousands of years was a good idea? Is anyone surprised that they could come out roaring and defeat all the trade sanctions with in-house developments? Wait maybe this is a great idea, lets really ratchet up competition, it makes everyone better. Cooperation is good too though.

Geralt said

It would be great to see this CPU competing with the likes of AMD and Intel. I could even buy one, why not.

Click to expand...

Well, it's not x86, so no compatibility with any x86 programs - including Windows, etc.

Unless you are Chinese and want to run whatever software Loongson makes available, your only other option for the near future would likely be compiling your own binaries of open-source software on Linux, using a C/C++ compiler compatible with the Loongson ISA.

Lew Zealand said

Because they can't keep their mouths shut. By definition. And that's not linked with intelligence one way or another so is a weird point to make.


Because they pay their workers less than the rest of the world so can compete for labor with a very large supply. The western world at least gives lip service to a living wage and living standards even if the follow through is frequently lacking.


...with sheer numbers of people. And how do they do that? By importing lots and lots of food because they can't grow enough food to feed those cheap workers. And the food comes from: western countries.

The Chinese are dependent on the western world and in a very basic way: for sustenance.

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wow, no bigotry here