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M1 with eGPU for FCP?
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M1 with eGPU for FCP?
What is an eGPU patent? A GPU is just a PCIe card. You connect it, add some drivers, and you're done. M1 Macs have the drivers but they weren't recompiled for ARM.
At least the new models should support more displays.
For my use, this GPU works well, and I don't want too much more in a laptop - just less heat and peace, and I will leave the heavy lifting to my desktops.
EGPU's are fantastic to convert a laptop into a desktop, if you are a heavy gpu user like I am, but overall a desktop solution still smashes that set up [no latency, faster CPU etc].
There's nothing particularly special about an eGPU, it's a discrete GPU that happens to be connected on PCIe lanes that are externalized via Thunderbolt. Apple Silicon still uses PCIe. The only REAL issue here is drivers. If Apple is supporting discrete GPUs in later Apple Silicon Macs (and this is a pretty good bet), the only thing preventing eGPU support at that point is laziness or attempts at control.
Right now, Apple Silicon offers a unique benefit for GPU developers: a streamlined development environment with a powerful API and unified hardware capabilities. Third party GPUs and eGPUs in particular are not compatible with this environment, ergo, I don't see Apple sabotaging their platform by offering that feature.
P.S. to be 100% clear, this is just my opinion. I might very well be wrong.
In Octane Render
An M1 takes 101 seconds
A 5700XT 21 seconds
So Apple really need to up the GPU specs for macproAS.
I think it is great for most users and totally support it. However probably not so great for some of my professional work but thats fine, windows does a great job there. Right tool right job.
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May 12, 2015
I have a PC wiht a RTX 3080 GPU. currently use the 16 inch MBP but know will switch to M1. Does it make sense to get an eGPU enclosure to render and FX in FCP with the 3080? Am I going to get way better performance?
TheRealAlex
macrumors 68020
Sep 2, 2015
2,322
1,338
Due to patents owned by NVIDIA, which Apple got around thanks to help from Intel. New Apple made M1 chips dont enjoy those same patent work arounds. Hence M1 Chips made by Apple cant get around eGPU patents NVIDIA holds.
Works arounds are in the works but not yet ready so don’t hold your breath. Or that they will be as good when released.
Works arounds are in the works but not yet ready so don’t hold your breath. Or that they will be as good when released.
You're saying M1 Macs don't support eGPUs because of patents? Where did you get this info?Due to patents owned by NVIDIA, which Apple got around thanks to help from Intel. New Apple made M1 chips dont enjoy those same patent work arounds. Hence M1 Chips made by Apple cant get around eGPU patents NVIDIA holds.
Works arounds are in the works but not yet ready so don’t hold your breath. Or that they will be as good when released.
What is an eGPU patent? A GPU is just a PCIe card. You connect it, add some drivers, and you're done. M1 Macs have the drivers but they weren't recompiled for ARM.
May 12, 2015
cool. looking forward to the new modelsYou're saying M1 Macs don't support eGPUs because of patents? Where did you get this info?
What is an eGPU patent? A GPU is just a PCIe card. You connect it, add some drivers, and you're done. M1 Macs have the drivers but they weren't recompiled for ARM.
I don't know if Apple will ever enable eGPU for Apple Silicon. Third parties can't make graphics drivers for Macs.cool. looking forward to the new models
At least the new models should support more displays.
M1 does not support eGPUs and my bet is that it never will. It does not make any once for Apple to support eGPUs on Apple Silicon as they are not compatible with their programming model.
Reactions: bierdybard and TheRealAlex
Fishrrman
macrumors Core
Feb 20, 2009
21,414
7,711
OP:
If you need an eGPU, better use an Intel-based Mac.
As leman predicts, probably not going to see any support for eGPU's on m-series Macs any time soon.
If you need an eGPU, better use an Intel-based Mac.
As leman predicts, probably not going to see any support for eGPU's on m-series Macs any time soon.
GumaRodak
macrumors 6502
Mar 14, 2015
Question is, if the new AS chips machines will need egpu.
it could be possible, that the built in gpus will be very powerfull.
it could be possible, that the built in gpus will be very powerfull.
TheRealAlex
macrumors 68020
Sep 2, 2015
2,322
1,338
That’s why I’m waiting for M2X with eGPU native support.M1 does not support eGPUs and my bet is that it never will. It does not make any once for Apple to support eGPUs on Apple Silicon as they are not compatible with their programming model.
As I said before, eGPUs are fundamentally incompatible with Apple Silicon programming model as they break important assumptions guaranteed by Apple architecture. It won’t be any different for M2 or whatever revision.That’s why I’m waiting for M2X with eGPU native support.
I've used an eGPU in my daily setup for 4+ years now (a Radeon RX580 8GB with my 2016 nTB MBP). It's worked very well for my needs and has been really good especially this past year with the whole work from home thing. While I'm a little disappointed that eGPU support will probably not support Apple Silicon, I'm completely fine ditching my eGPU in the future if the graphics performance in Apple Silicon is close to being as good as an internal dGPU.
Reactions: hagjohn
I think if the next higher end chips have a GPU that is the same or a bit better than the 5600m in my 16" then it should be great.I've used an eGPU in my daily setup for 4+ years now (a Radeon RX580 8GB with my 2016 nTB MBP). It's worked very well for my needs and has been really good especially this past year with the whole work from home thing. While I'm a little disappointed that eGPU support will probably not support Apple Silicon, I'm completely fine ditching my eGPU in the future if the graphics performance in Apple Silicon is close to being as good as an internal dGPU.
For my use, this GPU works well, and I don't want too much more in a laptop - just less heat and peace, and I will leave the heavy lifting to my desktops.
EGPU's are fantastic to convert a laptop into a desktop, if you are a heavy gpu user like I am, but overall a desktop solution still smashes that set up [no latency, faster CPU etc].
bierdybard
macrumors member
Apr 16, 2014
You wanna provide some examples here? Because it frankly sounds like you're blowing smoke.As I said before, eGPUs are fundamentally incompatible with Apple Silicon programming model as they break important assumptions guaranteed by Apple architecture. It won’t be any different for M2 or whatever revision.
There's nothing particularly special about an eGPU, it's a discrete GPU that happens to be connected on PCIe lanes that are externalized via Thunderbolt. Apple Silicon still uses PCIe. The only REAL issue here is drivers. If Apple is supporting discrete GPUs in later Apple Silicon Macs (and this is a pretty good bet), the only thing preventing eGPU support at that point is laziness or attempts at control.
Examples:You wanna provide some examples here? Because it frankly sounds like you're blowing smoke.
There's nothing particularly special about an eGPU, it's a discrete GPU that happens to be connected on PCIe lanes that are externalized via Thunderbolt. Apple Silicon still uses PCIe. The only REAL issue here is drivers. If Apple is supporting discrete GPUs in later Apple Silicon Macs (and this is a pretty good bet), the only thing preventing eGPU support at that point is laziness or attempts at control.
- Apple GPUs have unified memory, eGPUs by definition do not
- Apple GPUs are TBDR devices, third party GPUs are not
- Apple GPUs offer certain performance guarantees, third party GPUs are not
- Metal is designed for Apple GPUs and full range of Metal features is only available on Apple GPUs, third party GPUs only support a subset of those features
Right now, Apple Silicon offers a unique benefit for GPU developers: a streamlined development environment with a powerful API and unified hardware capabilities. Third party GPUs and eGPUs in particular are not compatible with this environment, ergo, I don't see Apple sabotaging their platform by offering that feature.
Reactions: MarkC426
Does this unified memory mean Apple GPUs will likely always be part of the SoC? Even the eventual AS Mac Pro?Examples:Bottomline: if Apple allows third-party GPUs on their platform, they are fragmenting the API and diluting the strong guarantees offered by their own GPUs. Developer targeting Apple Silicon would need to implement multiple GPU algorithms for different GPU families, which will discourage them from optimizing for Apple GPUs specifically.
- Apple GPUs have unified memory, eGPUs by definition do not
- Apple GPUs are TBDR devices, third party GPUs are not
- Apple GPUs offer certain performance guarantees, third party GPUs are not
- Metal is designed for Apple GPUs and full range of Metal features is only available on Apple GPUs, third party GPUs only support a subset of those features
Right now, Apple Silicon offers a unique benefit for GPU developers: a streamlined development environment with a powerful API and unified hardware capabilities. Third party GPUs and eGPUs in particular are not compatible with this environment, ergo, I don't see Apple sabotaging their platform by offering that feature.
jayducharme
macrumors 68040
Jun 22, 2006 3,947 4,034
I had a high-end eGPU setup with my previous i7 mini. It worked well, but definitely revved up pretty loudly when I worked on 3D modeling or Final Cut projects. My M1 mini is much faster than my previous setup and has been more than capable with whatever I've thrown at it (and has been completely silent). So I don't see any need for an eGPU. And it's only going to get better with future iterations. So if you have an Intel mini, you definitely need an eGPU. But it's not needed with the M1.
Reactions: hagjohn
profcutter
macrumors 6502a
Mar 28, 2019
To answer the OP’s question, I don’t think Nvidia 3080s were ever supported in Mac OS. Apple and Nvidia have a pretty nasty relationship, and there haven’t been any drivers for modern Nvidia cards for Macs. So, no, connecting your 3080 in an Egpu probably won’t work, and FCP wouldn’t recognize it anyway, intel or M1.
Seeing how much emphasis Apple put on advertising UMA on Apple Silicon I just don’t see them not having it on the Mac Pro as well. Whether it will be one large SoC or multiple chips interconnected by a shared cache/memory die (like AMD does) is a technical question.Does this unified memory mean Apple GPUs will likely always be part of the SoC? Even the eventual AS Mac Pro?
P.S. to be 100% clear, this is just my opinion. I might very well be wrong.
Reactions: thekev and subjonas
I have very shallow depth of technical knowledge, but what I do understand is fascinating. So curious to see how Apple will handle their high end machines and their pro customer base.Seeing how much emphasis Apple put on advertising UMA on Apple Silicon I just don’t see them not having it on the Mac Pro as well. Whether it will be one large SoC or multiple chips interconnected by a shared cache/memory die (like AMD does) is a technical question.
P.S. to be 100% clear, this is just my opinion. I might very well be wrong.
Fishrrman
macrumors Core
Feb 20, 2009
21,414
7,711
My totally-undeducated opinion is that Apple is moving ever-closer to "completely closed systems" on the Mac.
As such, the m-series Macs will become ever-more "limited" in the range of "upgrades" they can support.
As such, the m-series Macs will become ever-more "limited" in the range of "upgrades" they can support.
I don't think there is any other interpretation to what we are seeing. Macs have become as closed hardware-wise as iPhones. Any kind of third-party extensibility is going to be external only. I wonder what it means for the Mc Pro though...My totally-undeducated opinion is that Apple is moving ever-closer to "completely closed systems" on the Mac.
As such, the m-series Macs will become ever-more "limited" in the range of "upgrades" they can support.
hagjohn
macrumors 65816
Aug 27, 2006 1,101 2,347
Once we see more Macs coming out, we can guesstimate better where Apple is going but I agree with everyone else. I doubt there will be eGPUs in the AS line. It defeats the whole unified memory concept of the AS SOC. They may integrate AMD video into the SOC but we can only guess for now.
As an example of current M1 benchmarks:So I don't see any need for an eGPU. And it's only going to get better with future iterations. So if you have an Intel mini, you definitely need an eGPU. But it's not needed with the M1.
In Octane Render
An M1 takes 101 seconds
A 5700XT 21 seconds
So Apple really need to up the GPU specs for macproAS.
For 3D modelling mayber. What about GPU Rendering?I had a high-end eGPU setup with my previous i7 mini. It worked well, but definitely revved up pretty loudly when I worked on 3D modeling or Final Cut projects. My M1 mini is much faster than my previous setup and has been more than capable with whatever I've thrown at it (and has been completely silent). So I don't see any need for an eGPU. And it's only going to get better with future iterations. So if you have an Intel mini, you definitely need an eGPU. But it's not needed with the M1.
That’s always been the goal since the start of Apple hasnt it? Fully integrated hardware and software.My totally-undeducated opinion is that Apple is moving ever-closer to "completely closed systems" on the Mac.
As such, the m-series Macs will become ever-more "limited" in the range of "upgrades" they can support.
I think it is great for most users and totally support it. However probably not so great for some of my professional work but thats fine, windows does a great job there. Right tool right job.
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